Canon EOS C400

[eatstoomuchjam]

Just watched the livestream - announcement from Canon.

Main takeaways:

6K BSI stacked sensor

Triple base ISO (I think it was 400, 3200, 12800, but I might be wrong on the lowest one)

RF mount

DPAF II

USB-C standard monitor

Integrated servo zoom port

Mini-XLR similar to C70, 12G SDI/3G SDI + full-size HDMI

Uses new version of BPA batteries, can use the old ones, but it will disable the integrated servo zoom port + multi-function shoe

"Just over 5x5x5 inches"

Weighs around 3.5 pounds

"Best dynamic range of any full-frame EOS Cinema camera ever"

$8,000

From the announcement, it looks like a pretty solid working person's camera.  The YouTuber scene probably won't find much to be excited about, but I suspect that Canon is going to sell a ton of these to owner/operators.  Also, it makes all the recent C70 sales make more sense.  We'll see what people think once this starts getting into the hands of real users, but it looks like a solid, if somewhat uninteresting, option!

[PPNS]

can it do 3:2 open gate?

[eatstoomuchjam]

Not mentioned, but judging by the sensor that they showed, I'd guess it can do 17:9 open gate.  😃

[eatstoomuchjam]

https://www.cined.com/canon-eos-c400-cinema-camera-announced-6k-full-frame-raw-internal-recording-triple-base-iso-and-more/

I was wrong about the lower native ISO - it's 800.

Also, the full sensor resolution is 6000x3164.  That seems aligned with my belief that it can do 17:9 open gate (or awfully close to it).

I also missed that it has built-in ND filters.  Nice.

[ade towell]

Hmm no evf, this seems to be a worrying modern trend.

Other than that I'm sure it'll be great 

[andjo]

Looks killer in so many ways. Would be interesting to try one out.

[independent]

Just saw the CVP tests - the big surprise here is the unique triple base iso - really impressive feature in the under-exposure latitude tests. This might be the best low light camera available 

[newfoundmass]

1 hour ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

The YouTuber scene probably won't find much to be excited about, but I suspect that Canon is going to sell a ton of these to owner/operators. 

I know so few people that actually own/use these Canon cinema cameras. Everyone I know has switched to Sony. Those that didn't have pretty much ditched the cinema line altogether and gone with one of Canon's mirrorless options. I'd be curious to see how many cinema cameras they actually sell these days.

[Emanuel]

47 minutes ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

https://www.cined.com/canon-eos-c400-cinema-camera-announced-6k-full-frame-raw-internal-recording-triple-base-iso-and-more/

Sublime promo video, without any pretentious narrative yadda yadda, so my compliments as producer, these guys know perfectly what they're doing.

My kudos,

- EAG :- )

[KnightsFan]

Looks pretty awesome! No real complaints from me yet, based on the CVP video. Worth an $8k spend for me? Meh... not really. But it looks really solid with most of the expected basics covered, even if it doesn't have anything wildly new.

The one weird thing is that they have left out a DGO sensor. Seems like a strange choice, considering how the C70 has it.

[eatstoomuchjam]

27 minutes ago, newfoundmass said:

I know so few people that actually own/use these Canon cinema cameras. Everyone I know has switched to Sony. Those that didn't have pretty much ditched the cinema line altogether and gone with one of Canon's mirrorless options. I'd be curious to see how many cinema cameras they actually sell these days.

There are tons of people using C70's and C300 II's.  I doubt they're selling a ton of them these days, given that they're several years old and most people in the target market already have them and have been using them.

17 minutes ago, Emanuel said:

Sublime promo video, without any pretentious narrative yadda yadda, so my compliments as producer, these guys know perfectly what they're doing.

I think that they know that their target market isn't people who want weird pretentious talk or wild claims, but working shooters who aren't spending all day on internet forums.
(That is, not me - I'm unlikely to buy this camera any time soon and I hang out on internet forums too much)
 

13 minutes ago, KnightsFan said:

The one weird thing is that they have left out a DGO sensor. Seems like a strange choice, considering how the C70 has it.

I'm guessing that it's either cost or that more people told them they wanted multiple base ISO's.  It also gives people a potential reason to keep buying the C70 - which they really wouldn't have otherwise.

[BenEricson]

1 hour ago, ade towell said:

Hmm no evf, this seems to be a worrying modern trend.

Other than that I'm sure it'll be great 

Agreed. You basically need a Cine Saddle and a large Gold Mount + Cine Lens to shoot proper looking handheld. 

I love my C70 but it is IS lenses or gimbal and tripod only. An EVF would fix this.

1 hour ago, newfoundmass said:

I know so few people that actually own/use these Canon cinema cameras. Everyone I know has switched to Sony. Those that didn't have pretty much ditched the cinema line altogether and gone with one of Canon's mirrorless options. I'd be curious to see how many cinema cameras they actually sell these days.

Anecdotal. Depends on your market. They are huge here in Seattle. It's either Arri or Canon. Corporate work is generally Canon.

 

55 minutes ago, KnightsFan said:

The one weird thing is that they have left out a DGO sensor. Seems like a strange choice, considering how the C70 has it.

Still convinced this is marketing hype. I use the C500ii and C70 pretty regularly. The C70 in raw is real noisy. The C500ii is cleaner all around. By a lot.

[SRV1981]

 

[SRV1981]

Just now, SRV1981 said:

 

 

[eatstoomuchjam]

2 hours ago, ade towell said:

Hmm no evf, this seems to be a worrying modern trend

Apparently it can use the EVF-50, same as the C300 III and C500.  Bummer is that the placement doesn't seem flexible (at least in the video I saw, it looked like it hard mounted to the back of the camera, centered on top).

https://www.usa.canon.com/shop/p/evf-v50?color=Black&type=New

 

[ade towell]

Better than nothing but this camera deserves more than a token gesture on the back a la C100 from however many years ago. Maybe the new Black Magic evf will work with it

But at the price they're asking this camera really should have a decent quality evf included that you can place where you need it 

[IronFilm]

5 hours ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

$8,000

Does it justify a $2K higher price than their main competition? 

But hmmm... this is very cool: 

"Full Frame, Super35 & Super16 Modes"

Biggest feature missing from the FX6 that I wish it had!

[IronFilm]

5 hours ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

From the announcement, it looks like a pretty solid working person's camera. 

100%!

5 hours ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

The YouTuber scene probably won't find much to be excited about, but I suspect that Canon is going to sell a ton of these to owner/operators. 

Maybe, maybe not. 

The C400 might have the same problem the C300mk2 too had, it came out too late in the upgrade life cycle , and it lost out to the earlier released Sony FS7

And a lot of Canon fanboys might have already got a C70 (or C300mk3). 

 

5 hours ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

Also, it makes all the recent C70 sales make more sense. 

Definitely! A full priced C70 is tough to justify if you can afford a little bit more for a C400 (and don't mind the little extra size), so it made sense to make the price gap between the C70 and C400 a little big.

4 hours ago, newfoundmass said:

I know so few people that actually own/use these Canon cinema cameras. Everyone I know has switched to Sony. Those that didn't have pretty much ditched the cinema line altogether and gone with one of Canon's mirrorless options. I'd be curious to see how many cinema cameras they actually sell these days.

That's my feeling too, when I think about the past shoots I've worked on over the last couple of years, even if you combine all of the C70 + C300mk2 + C500mk2 into one category, it still wouldn't out number the number of FX6 shoots I've been on.

3 hours ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

There are tons of people using C70's and C300 II's. 

For sure there are, but compared to the hordes of people using FX6 & FS7?? Much less. 

 

[KnightsFan]

5 hours ago, BenEricson said:

Still convinced this is marketing hype. I use the C500ii and C70 pretty regularly. The C70 in raw is real noisy. The C500ii is cleaner all around. By a lot.

It's possible. I mean I would typically expect a full frame sensor from the same generation to have lower noise than a S35 sensor. Are you talking about base ISO? I've definitely seen tests showing the C500 2 having way better noise performance at higher ISO's than the C300 III and C70.

CVP's comparison implies that the C400 has worse latitude than the C300 Mk III, which supports the idea that their DGO technology worked fairly well. I haven't tried any of these cameras so I have no firsthand information. It just sort of surprised me that they didn't keep using that feature.

[herein2020]

I was marginally interested in this camera as a possible replacement for my C70 A cam and R7 B cam setup, thinking maybe I could use just the C400 for both the wide and close shots when delivering in 4K, or even start using this as my A cam and the C70 as my B cam for long form content but a few things buried in the specs make it a hard no for me:

• No XFAVC 6K - 6K raw is massive file sizes and overkill for me, if I were to use this as my sole cam for longform shoots I would need a 6K XFAVC option. I am almost certain they will eventually add it via a FW update, but come on, it should be there on day 1.
• No 6K redundancy - Similar to problem 1, 6K is only raw which means it can only be written to CFE for which there is only a single slot. As anyone who knows me knows, dual slot recording is very important to me and if I am shooting in 6K it means I need all 6K, not a lower res 4K copy sitting on the SD card.
• No VF - I know it's a cinema camera not an ENG camera but still, that's one thing I am lacking with the C70 is a EVF. With the C70 multiple times I have wanted to use a shoulder rig so that I can film short walk and talk scenes but it is impossible to see the screen when it is on your shoulder so I have had to use the R7. An ENG style EVF would have made this camera a bit more interesting to me. Yes I know there are ways to rig one up, but as a OMB I avoid frankenrigs at all cost
• No integrated screen - One thing I like about the C70 is you literally just flip out the screen and go, having to set up the handle and connect the screen is a step back to the C200 days. I know this isn't really targeted towards shooters like me, but having an integrated screen is great for faster setup.

I do think the triple native ISO will be super useful, especially ISO3200 for CLOG3, with the C70 I try very hard not to go above its native ISO.

Also, is it just me or does it feel like the camera sensor in this camera is just a warmed over R3 sensor? I think a 6K DGO sensor with dual native ISOs at ISO800 and ISO3200 (if such a thing is possible with a DGO sensor) would have been better than a triple native ISO non DGO sensor.

If this sensor shows up in a C90 next year with an integrated screen, 6K XFAVC codecs, 4K Raw LT, dual SD cards, no 6K raw, and triple native ISO, at a $6K price point I might be interested. While I am dreaming, it would also be the same size and form factor as the C70 (but better build quality) so that all existing peripherals fit as well.