Is ProRes RAW really RAW?

[kye]

15 hours ago, lsquare said:

Where do I start?

For Colour Management, I recommend biting the bullet and learning it once and learning it properly.

That video is just over an hour, but it's worth it.

The alternate approach is what I did, which was to watch shorter videos that give you random puzzle pieces in random order and basically just confuse the absolute crap out of you.  I was really bad at colour grading for years until I started watching the professionals give thorough explanations of things, and the confusion lifted and I was able to get things setup and start getting the results I wanted.

You know how professionals make things look easy, and can do great stuff with a few clicks?  It's because they know how things really work.

[osmanovic]

Yes, ProRes RAW is true RAW and can therefore be converted to CinemaDNG, while Blackmagic RAW is not true RAW and therefore cannot be converted to CinemaDNG.

[Attila Bakos]

ProRes RAW is closer to a true raw as it's not debayered, whereas BRAW is partially debayered (whatever BM means by that). In the end result it won't really make a visible difference, but black belt pixel peepers reported macro blocking issues in BRAW, so it's clearly more processed than ProRes RAW. However, I would just use whichever is supported by my NLE.

[zlfan]

codec means compression decompression. anything is compressed is codec, no matter compressed raw. only ml raw can have true lossless codec due to the lj92 engine found in ml cameras. 

[cpc]

13 hours ago, zlfan said:

codec means compression decompression. anything is compressed is codec, no matter compressed raw. only ml raw can have true lossless codec due to the lj92 engine found in ml cameras. 

Early BM cameras, early Kinefinity cameras and many DJI cameras do losslessly compressed raw.

[zlfan]

6 minutes ago, cpc said:

Early BM cameras, early Kinefinity cameras and many DJI cameras do losslessly compressed raw.

thanks for the info. I don't know this. 

what are the compression ratios on these cameras? 

[PPNS]

17 hours ago, zlfan said:

codec means compression decompression. anything is compressed is codec, no matter compressed raw. only ml raw can have true lossless codec due to the lj92 engine found in ml cameras. 

and if you’ve ever worked with arriraw you would know how stupid and useless uncompressed raw is if if the camera also has a good codec built in.

[zlfan]

1 hour ago, PPNS said:

and if you’ve ever worked with arriraw you would know how stupid and useless uncompressed raw is if if the camera also has a good codec built in.

maybe arriraw is not as efficient as r3d, like rendering speed, nle support?

Alexa already has prores4444, pretty good actually. 

[cpc]

On 6/18/2024 at 2:48 PM, zlfan said:

thanks for the info. I don't know this. 

what are the compression ratios on these cameras? 

Around 1.6:1 for BM, around 2:1 for the others. Will vary with image content, lossless compression being variable bit rate.

[majoraxis]

I had an URSA Mini Pro 4.6k that shot Cinema DNG and BRAW (a firmware upgrade discontinued Cinema DNG). The BRAW was slightly less resolved with a slight color shift compare to the Cinema DNG.  Once color corrected I did not notice which shots were which on YouTube.  From the online comparison between BRAW and Pro Res RAW it seems that Pro Res RAW has a finer noise structure, which makes the Pro Res RAW slightly better looking IMHO.  BRAW at higher resolutions like with the URSA 12k shooting 8k resolution, I have no complaints unless I don't provide enough light, then I see the slight limitations of BRAW as compared to Pro Res RAW.

[PannySVHS]

So what is your impression regarding image quality of the Ursa 12K as a 4K camera? Maybe in comparison to other cameras and on its own rights? Does it offer Braw in 4K as well?@majoraxis