a full frame camera with the best ibis?

[zlfan]

my purpose is to adapt my ff manual focus lenses on this camera for handheld shooting.

I know gh7, om1 mkii are good for ibis. but they are maybe only good <100mm. or can they stabilize lenses of 200 mm well?

[kye]

5 hours ago, zlfan said:

my purpose is to adapt my ff manual focus lenses on this camera for handheld shooting.

I know gh7, om1 mkii are good for ibis. but they are maybe only good <100mm. or can they stabilize lenses of 200 mm well?

I just got the 14-140mm F3.5-5.6 Panasonic zoom lens, and in combination with my GX85 they do DualIS which utilises the IBIS and the OIS together.

I'm able to hand-hold up to about 100mm, which is same FOV as 200mm on FF.

The problem of stabilisation is that there's no standard for testing, and each person has differing abilities to hold a camera steady.  If you're able to rig the camera in a way that makes it steadier then that will significantly improve your ability to get stable shots.  For example, having the camera on a small tripod and using the tripod to brace the camera against your body, or using the string trick to hold the camera to the ground, or using a strap to pull it away from your body and stabilise it that way, etc.

[PannySVHS]

Best Ibis from a full frame camera, S5II. I have not tested it but youtube shows plenty examples. I find Ibis on the GH5 and GX85 more reliable than on my S1/H. It works very well most of the times on the latter but sometimes, possibly with adapted stabilized lenses such as the Canon 24-105, it can  unexpectedly feel a bit too jittery. S1/H stabilized a 200mm very well for my needs when panning a protagonist handheld, to answer your question. Do you have a dslm camera with ibis? If not, GX85 from my experience is a good starter or Olympus EM10III.

[MrSMW]

Right now, it’s probably the S5ii.

You can adapt at least Canon lenses, but not sure about anything else.

Definitely not anything ‘new’ such as Sony E, Nikon Z or Canon RF.

The IBIS though is first rate in my opinion.

[John Matthews]

On the IBIS front, we've gone from taking out micro-jitters to gimbal replacement. IMO nothing truly replaces a skilled steadycam operator. However, if you're one man show, the Panasonic S5ii/x has the best IBIS in the business in June 2024. Sony is far, far behind for out-of-camera gimbal like shots on their FF bodies. Nikon and Canon still have issues with warpy corners on wide shots (the majority of shots for "gimbal replacements"). Coming from M43 and used to Panasonic and Olympus systems crushing FF bodies, I was amazed how Panasonic did it.

[MrSMW]

1 minute ago, John Matthews said:

On the IBIS front, we've gone from taking out micro-jitters to gimbal replacement

Which is exactly how I’m using mine.

Originally for the former and now with the latter.

No regrets over ditching the gimbal. None at all.

It’s not like I was ever a big gimbal user anyway, but after going through 3 of the damned things and never enjoying any of them…in fact they were an utter PITA, now loving the ‘custom C3 gimbal setting’ on my S5ii at the flick of a switch.

Using the 28mm wide end of my Sigma 28-70mm, in S35 mode, it’s more like around ‘50mm’ or something and early days, but suits my limited needs.

[zlfan]

5 hours ago, PannySVHS said:

Best Ibis from a full frame camera, S5II. I have not tested it but youtube shows plenty examples. I find Ibis on the GH5 and GX85 more reliable than on my S1/H. It works very well most of the times on the latter but sometimes, possibly with adapted stabilized lenses such as the Canon 24-105, it can  unexpectedly feel a bit too jittery. S1/H stabilized a 200mm very well for my needs when panning a protagonist handheld, to answer your question. Do you have a dslm camera with ibis? If not, GX85 from my experience is a good starter or Olympus EM10III.

I have em5 og, 4 stop ibis

[zlfan]

3 hours ago, John Matthews said:

On the IBIS front, we've gone from taking out micro-jitters to gimbal replacement. IMO nothing truly replaces a skilled steadycam operator. However, if you're one man show, the Panasonic S5ii/x has the best IBIS in the business in June 2024. Sony is far, far behind for out-of-camera gimbal like shots on their FF bodies. Nikon and Canon still have issues with warpy corners on wide shots (the majority of shots for "gimbal replacements"). Coming from M43 and used to Panasonic and Olympus systems crushing FF bodies, I was amazed how Panasonic did it.

you are totally right, according to my research on ibis. 

[zlfan]

3 hours ago, MrSMW said:

Which is exactly how I’m using mine.

Originally for the former and now with the latter.

No regrets over ditching the gimbal. None at all.

It’s not like I was ever a big gimbal user anyway, but after going through 3 of the damned things and never enjoying any of them…in fact they were an utter PITA, now loving the ‘custom C3 gimbal setting’ on my S5ii at the flick of a switch.

Using the 28mm wide end of my Sigma 28-70mm, in S35 mode, it’s more like around ‘50mm’ or something and early days, but suits my limited needs.

I tried steadicam. I have a steadicam merlin. the problem is the difficulty to balance. also, I can not do camera angles I like. but if only for flow movements like walking or running, the footage is very pro like. 

[zlfan]

seems to me currently the best choice is s 5 2 x. 

I will follow up with s 5 3. if it incorporates gh 7's features, I will pull the trigger. I have a collection of mf lenses with different brands, formats, and mounts. I think l mount is ok for almost all of them. I hope s 5 3 has ibis similar to gh7 om1 ii. 

[zlfan]

5 hours ago, kye said:

I just got the 14-140mm F3.5-5.6 Panasonic zoom lens, and in combination with my GX85 they do DualIS which utilises the IBIS and the OIS together.

I'm able to hand-hold up to about 100mm, which is same FOV as 200mm on FF.

The problem of stabilisation is that there's no standard for testing, and each person has differing abilities to hold a camera steady.  If you're able to rig the camera in a way that makes it steadier then that will significantly improve your ability to get stable shots.  For example, having the camera on a small tripod and using the tripod to brace the camera against your body, or using the string trick to hold the camera to the ground, or using a strap to pull it away from your body and stabilise it that way, etc.

handhold 100 mm on m43 is actually pretty good. I have several 50 mm standard primes. if they are stable enough for video use, it will great. em5 og is tripod like at 25mm, monopod like at 50mm, 100 mm is not stable enough for video work. 

[kye]

30 minutes ago, zlfan said:

handhold 100 mm on m43 is actually pretty good. I have several 50 mm standard primes. if they are stable enough for video use, it will great. em5 og is tripod like at 25mm, monopod like at 50mm, 100 mm is not stable enough for video work. 

100mm on MFT is definitely a pretty long telephoto for sure, but remember that in my case I had IBIS in the camera and the OIS in the lens both helping with the stabilisation.  Depending on what camera and what lens you have, they might not work together like this, so you'll get less effective stabilisation.

I find stabilisation to really be a bit of a gamble - you can get good comparisons from people and they're likely to be good information but until you actually test a setup yourself you're not going to know in what situations you can get a stable image.

I've found that there are lots of things that can impact your ability to get a stable shot, for example all the following will have an impact:

• if you're tired
• if the ground is level and solid or not
• what sort of shoes you are wearing and if they're comfortable
• what pose you're in
• if it's windy
• your caffeine levels
• how tired you are
• if there are bright lights shining in your eyes
• (obviously) if you're moving or walking, but even then there are all sorts of techniques involved and how much practice you've had at them, etc

Perhaps the best advice once you've bought your equipment is to practice as much as you can, know what you can and can't do, and have a backup plan in place for when it gets difficult.

[Ty Harper]

3 hours ago, kye said:

100mm on MFT is definitely a pretty long telephoto for sure, but remember that in my case I had IBIS in the camera and the OIS in the lens both helping with the stabilisation.  Depending on what camera and what lens you have, they might not work together like this, so you'll get less effective stabilisation.

I find stabilisation to really be a bit of a gamble - you can get good comparisons from people and they're likely to be good information but until you actually test a setup yourself you're not going to know in what situations you can get a stable image.

I've found that there are lots of things that can impact your ability to get a stable shot, for example all the following will have an impact:

• if you're tired
• if the ground is level and solid or not
• what sort of shoes you are wearing and if they're comfortable
• what pose you're in
• if it's windy
• your caffeine levels
• how tired you are
• if there are bright lights shining in your eyes
• (obviously) if you're moving or walking, but even then there are all sorts of techniques involved and how much practice you've had at them, etc

Perhaps the best advice once you've bought your equipment is to practice as much as you can, know what you can and can't do, and have a backup plan in place for when it gets difficult.

Pretty much!

I made the mistake of buying a used R5, specifically for its IBIS, to pair with my R5C, and ended up regretting it bcuz the difference between IBIS and the R5C with internal DIS and/or IS lenses was not worth the advantages of getting acsecond R5C will never do that again. Luckily I was able to resell the R5 and get a second R5C for about the price as the used R5.

Currently I use my R5Cs exclusively with EF lenses that have IS and have no complaints whatsoever (I use DIS now and then but very rarely). Basically, I know the cam's limitations and respect those limitations. For shots that require something beyond the stationary tripod-styled look I invested in an RS3 Pro (using it with IS stablized lens gives me the best results). For R5C users, the RS2/3/4 Pro are pretty much the best/only options - and many R5C users who tried to go for something more affordable ended up regretting it. 

So in 2024 it's still a horses/courses/practice-practice get to know your gear approach.

[zlfan]

4 hours ago, kye said:

100mm on MFT is definitely a pretty long telephoto for sure, but remember that in my case I had IBIS in the camera and the OIS in the lens both helping with the stabilisation.  Depending on what camera and what lens you have, they might not work together like this, so you'll get less effective stabilisation.

I find stabilisation to really be a bit of a gamble - you can get good comparisons from people and they're likely to be good information but until you actually test a setup yourself you're not going to know in what situations you can get a stable image.

I've found that there are lots of things that can impact your ability to get a stable shot, for example all the following will have an impact:

• if you're tired
• if the ground is level and solid or not
• what sort of shoes you are wearing and if they're comfortable
• what pose you're in
• if it's windy
• your caffeine levels
• how tired you are
• if there are bright lights shining in your eyes
• (obviously) if you're moving or walking, but even then there are all sorts of techniques involved and how much practice you've had at them, etc

Perhaps the best advice once you've bought your equipment is to practice as much as you can, know what you can and can't do, and have a backup plan in place for when it gets difficult.

thanks for the long reply. all true. regards, 

[zlfan]

this is s5 iix plus a 55mm lens handheld. the stabilization is totally like on a tripod. 

[Emanuel]

13 minutes ago, zlfan said:

this is s5 iix plus a 55mm lens handheld. the stabilization is totally like on a tripod. 

Terrific tool... PDAF + IBIS at this level put it at a special place for under $2000 indeed ;- )

[Davide DB]

2 hours ago, zlfan said:

this is s5 iix plus a 55mm lens handheld. the stabilization is totally like on a tripod. 

 

He is one of my favourites and has a passion for vintage optics.

Look for his channel on Vimeo. Demonstration that an artist can make good use of any tool in his hand.

[zlfan]

1 minute ago, Davide DB said:

 

He is one of my favourites and has a passion for vintage optics.

Look for his channel on Vimeo. Demonstration that an artist can make good use of any tool in his hand.

thanks for the info. will explore. 

[bjohn]

5 hours ago, zlfan said:

this is s5 iix plus a 55mm lens handheld. the stabilization is totally like on a tripod. 

That might be the nicest, least video-like footage I've seen from that camera; it just adds to the already convincing weight of evidence that the lens makes the biggest difference to the straight-out-of-camera look of your footage. IBIS for stationary shots is not a challenge but I'd like to see how it handles slow pans and tilts...I'd want to be sure it's not playing catch-up and trying to correct those movements, resulting in jerky footage. There were a few short pans in that video that looked fine, so maybe it's okay.

[zlfan]

I think if for ibis, currently, om1/ii is the best choice, em1 iii/x is the second choice, gh7 with dual is is the the third choice. ff ibis may take another 5-10 years to mature.