how do om1 mkii or even om1 dci 4k video quality comparing to gh7 or even gh6

[ac6000cw]

1 hour ago, Simon Young said:

Would be really cool to see some 4k 10bit footage in 25p as well.

I'll upload some if I've got some suitable files handy.

1 hour ago, PannySVHS said:

Lovely! What is the bitrate for HD 50p? @ac6000cw How would you evaluate the quality in this mode? Are there artefacts, moire, aliasing, mush, lackluster hd or fully resolving hd resolution?

FHD is much better than FHD from the E-M1 ii/iii, particularly in 10-bit. There's a bit of aliasing sometimes, but it's not really noticeable unless you're looking for it. I've never noticed any false-colour moire. Overall I'd put FHD a bit below that from my G9 and above the G85 I used to own. (But the G9 has excellent oversampled FHD so it's a tough competition).

FHD 8-bit 50/60p is 52Mbps long-GOP H.264, 10-bit is 42Mbps long-GOP, 162Mbps All-I H.265

FHD 8-bit 24/25/30p is 27Mbps long-GOP, 202Mbps All-I H.264, 10-bit is 22Mbps long-GOP, 82Mbps All-I H.265

UHD/C4K 50/60p 8-bit is 202Mbps H.264, 10-bit is 152Mbps H.265 (all long-GOP)

UHD/C4K 24/25/30p 8-bit is 102Mbps H.264, 10-bit is 77Mbps H.265 (all long-GOP)

Basically nothing above 202Mbps, 8-bit is H.264 Rec709 only, 10-bit is H.265 Rec2020 only, All-I is FHD only.

24/25/30p UHD/C4K 10-bit is the most detailed, 50/60p UHD/C4K 10-bit is a bit softer.

I shoot a lot in FHD 50p 10-bit OMLog400 (long-GOP) as it's good enough for most things I do and keeps the file sizes down. Important stuff I shoot in UHD 50p 10-bit OMLog400.

For wildlife video, I sometimes use 25p 10-bit because then I can use sensor-shift + digital IS without loosing to much quality. The extra digital IS crop also usefully gives longer reach in addition to excellent stability (like being able to shoot reasonably stable handheld video at 300mm).

[zlfan]

46 minutes ago, ac6000cw said:

I'll upload some if I've got some suitable files handy.

FHD is much better than FHD from the E-M1 ii/iii, particularly in 10-bit. There's a bit of aliasing sometimes, but it's not really noticeable unless you're looking for it. I've never noticed any false-colour moire. Overall I'd put FHD a bit below that from my G9 and above the G85 I used to own. (But the G9 has excellent oversampled FHD so it's a tough competition).

FHD 8-bit 50/60p is 52Mbps long-GOP H.264, 10-bit is 42Mbps long-GOP, 162Mbps All-I H.265

FHD 8-bit 24/25/30p is 27Mbps long-GOP, 202Mbps All-I H.264, 10-bit is 22Mbps long-GOP, 82Mbps All-I H.265

UHD/C4K 50/60p 8-bit is 202Mbps H.264, 10-bit is 152Mbps H.265 (all long-GOP)

UHD/C4K 24/25/30p 8-bit is 102Mbps H.264, 10-bit is 77Mbps H.265 (all long-GOP)

Basically nothing above 202Mbps, 8-bit is H.264 Rec709 only, 10-bit is H.265 Rec2020 only, All-I is FHD only.

24/25/30p UHD/C4K 10-bit is the most detailed, 50/60p UHD/C4K 10-bit is a bit softer.

I shoot a lot in FHD 50p 10-bit OMLog400 (long-GOP) as it's good enough for most things I do and keeps the file sizes down. Important stuff I shoot in UHD 50p 10-bit OMLog400.

For wildlife video, I sometimes use 25p 10-bit because then I can use sensor-shift + digital IS without loosing to much quality. The extra digital IS crop also usefully gives longer reach in addition to excellent stability (like being able to shoot reasonably stable handheld video at 300mm).

Thanks for the detailed list. I did not expect that C4K 30p on OM-1 is 10 bit 80 mbps H.265. This kind of bit rate is really low considering the recording format is 4k. In comparison, 4K Prores 422 HQ bit rate is 880 mbps up to 30p. It is about 10 times difference. Really difficult to keep all the details if there are movements. 

I was wondering why you used FHD 60p. Now I understand that this probably is the best mode on om-1. although it may have a little bit loss of details due to the imperfect oversampling process, but the codec is much stronger, especially for all-i 60p at 160 mbps H.265. In comparison, 1080p Prores HQ 422 60p is about 440 mbps. basically, the movements do not have much effects on the footage in this mode. 

 

[zlfan]

Apple ProRes

https://www.apple.com/final-cut-pro/docs/Apple_ProRes.pdf

see the table on page 20. 

OM-1 FHD All-I 160 mbps is about the same as FHD Prores 422 LT 200 mbps. 

OM-1 C4K Long-GOP 150 mbps is even much lower than 4K ProRes 422 Proxy 400 mbps. 

[zlfan]

By my personal experience, AF100A is 8 bit avchd 24 mbps 1080p 60p, C100 mk2 is 8 bit avchd 28 mbps 1080p 60p. Both are fine for movements if recording in 60p. To my understanding, AVCHD is a flavor of mp4, which typically is long GOP. 4K is 4 times of 1080p, theoretically, 8 bit 100 mbps 4k 60p H.264 is acceptable to record movements. Considering H.265 has better iq than H.264 at the same bit rate, 150 mbps 10 bit 4k 60p H.265 long gop is fine. Unfortunately, OM-1 C4k 60p is not as detailed as C4K 30p. OM-1 has a stacked sensor, so its 4K 60p should be fine for such a fast-reading sensor. Why the 4k 60p is not as good on OM-1? On the other hand, if it is a static shot, C4K up to 30p at 80 mbps H.265 10 bit may be fine. 

 

[zlfan]

Another example, go pro 12 records at 120 mbps 10 bit 5.3k 60p h.265 (not sure if it is h.264). the results seem fine. there is room for color grading too. so, om-1's 150 mbps 10 bit 4k 60p h.265 may be good for general use. 

[zlfan]

i think om-1 c4k 80 mbps 10 bit h.265 24p is usable and gradable, as long as you don't do slow panning or tilting or flowing the camera around. considering it has more details than other modes, it probably is the most prefer mode, even though the codec is very small. 

if there are many movements, which one is better?

FHD 10 bit all-I 160 mbps 60p

or 

C4K 10 bit long gop 150 mbps 60p

or 

UHD 10 bit long gop 150 mbps 60p

Maybe a tough question?

 

 

[MrSMW]

12 hours ago, zlfan said:

why do people complain about om-1 video iq? seems totally fine to me. 

Do they? I don't know, - rhetorical Q!

I didn't like it as much as FF/S35 Lumix, but probably never gave it enough time.

I suspect in isolation or with enough time to understand and work with it, there would have been little to no discernible difference?

 

[John Matthews]

12 hours ago, zlfan said:

why do people complain about om-1 video iq? seems totally fine to me. 

"People" complain about the bitrate because although the specs say it's 237mbps in C4K, it's a variable bitrate (but the UHD mode is a constant bitrate). On certain frames, it'll drop all the way down to 40mbps because it's "enough". Often you can't really see any impact of this. However, I've had issues with it. If you shoot a deep focus shot, handheld, high shutter with lots of super fine details, it'll look strange to my eye, but it's probably the shutter that screwed it up. You'll hit the limits of the 237mbps. Lock down the shot and throw on a ND, it'll look great and the bitrate won't go so high. In contrast, Panasonic's constant bitrate might break and there's nothing you can do, but in general it does look better when there's little movement in the seen (40mbps vs 100mbps). IMO, both the GH6 and GH7 are better for video because of their feature set and especially their in-camera tools (if you use them). If you're a simple histogram shooter with variable ND's and you you don't push grades, Olympus anything works fine. In many respects, the lower-end Olympus cameras(going back to E-m10 iii and E-pl9) are better. They have full-sensor readout and better continuous AF in video. The rest of the video specs are practically the same, including bitrate (both are constant).

[zlfan]

14 minutes ago, John Matthews said:

"People" complain about the bitrate because although the specs say it's 237mbps in C4K, it's a variable bitrate (but the UHD mode is a constant bitrate). On certain frames, it'll drop all the way down to 40mbps because it's "enough". Often you can't really see any impact of this. However, I've had issues with it. If you shoot a deep focus shot, handheld, high shutter with lots of super fine details, it'll look strange to my eye, but it's probably the shutter that screwed it up. You'll hit the limits of the 237mbps. Lock down the shot and throw on a ND, it'll look great and the bitrate won't go so high. In contrast, Panasonic's constant bitrate might break and there's nothing you can do, but in general it does look better when there's little movement in the seen (40mbps vs 100mbps). IMO, both the GH6 and GH7 are better for video because of their feature set and especially their in-camera tools (if you use them). If you're a simple histogram shooter with variable ND's and you you don't push grades, Olympus anything works fine. In many respects, the lower-end Olympus cameras(going back to E-m10 iii and E-pl9) are better. They have full-sensor readout and better continuous AF in video. The rest of the video specs are practically the same, including bitrate (both are constant).

good to know em-10 iii is better for video. can you explain more? 

if om 10 has an ibis of 6.5 stops, probably I will go for it, as it is much cheaper than om 1. 

[John Matthews]

20 minutes ago, zlfan said:

good to know em-10 iii is better for video. can you explain more? 

if om 10 has an ibis of 6.5 stops, probably I will go for it, as it is much cheaper than om 1. 

Sorry, I didn't mean the E-m10 iii is better than the OM anything. I only meant it might be better than older non-PDAF bodies from Panasonic (GX850, GX85, etc.) because of the full sensor readout. Still, there are reasons to have the Panasonic bodies (better colors, handling, audio).

[John Matthews]

41 minutes ago, zlfan said:

good to know em-10 iii is better for video. can you explain more? 

if om 10 has an ibis of 6.5 stops, probably I will go for it, as it is much cheaper than om 1. 

If price were the main concern (and it probably shouldn't, value and needs are better to consider), I think the very best for the price are the GH5 and E-M1 ii, the later better for AF. I personally don't think 10bit vs. 8bit is really that big of a deal (depending on the usage).

[zlfan]

2 minutes ago, John Matthews said:

If price were the main concern (and it probably shouldn't, value and needs are better to consider), I think the very best for the price are the GH5 and E-M1 ii, the later better for AF. I personally don't think 10bit vs. 8bit is really that big of a deal (depending on the usage).

true. I am aiming em-1x once it reaches to around $500. maybe another 2 years. I have a set of shg and hg lenses. so I have to use em1 or om1 series for these 43 lenses, af, balancing. 

[zlfan]

personally, I think om1 probably is the Best Buy now, as om1 mk ii does not improve much, except that 200 frames buffer depth. I probably will couple om1 with my many mf lenses, in 1080p 10-bit all-i 60p 160 mbps mode. video quality seems fine to my eyes. 

[John Matthews]

38 minutes ago, zlfan said:

true. I am aiming em-1x once it reaches to around $500. maybe another 2 years. I have a set of shg and hg lenses. so I have to use em1 or om1 series for these 43 lenses, af, balancing. 

The Em-1x is one hell of a camera if you don't mind its size. It's an utter beast in all senses of the term. I've heard it has much better face detection even than the OM1 i in video. KEH has them for 700-800 euros, which is also a steal IMO for that beast.

[zlfan]

1 hour ago, John Matthews said:

The Em-1x is one hell of a camera if you don't mind its size. It's an utter beast in all senses of the term. I've heard it has much better face detection even than the OM1 i in video. KEH has them for 700-800 euros, which is also a steal IMO for that beast.

totally agree, it will balance my shg 35-100 f2, 14-35 f2, 7-14 f4 well. 

[John Matthews]

2 hours ago, zlfan said:

35-100 f2, 14-35 f2

Could you be more specific? Adapted lenses?

[ac6000cw]

This is a collection of SOOC files from my OM-1 - https://drive.google.com/open?id=1527WMHFXJmDvTGI74QINJQdstgJPhXyt&usp=drive_fs

Most are 10-bit OMLog400 and two are 10-bit HLG (in low light).

The four files in the 'Road' folder are all of the same scene shot back-to-back, 10-bit OMLog400, in FHD 50p, UHD 50p and UHD 25p as a comparison.

Most were shot with the Oly 12-40mm pro lens, using sensor-shift IBIS only, auto-WB, 1/100 shutter priority (auto aperture and auto iso). All using C-AF with a medium size central focus area and default C-AF speed and sensitivity settings.

The file in the 'Train crossing road' folder is 8-bit UHD 50p and demonstrates the the low rolling shutter.

There is an OM System OMLog400 Rec2020 to Rec709 conversion LUT here - https://support.jp.omsystem.com/en/support/imsg/digicamera/download/software/3dlut/files/om1_LUT_OM-Log400_BT.2020_to_WDR_BT.709_v1.0.zip - but personally I don't particularly like the results from it.

[ac6000cw]

6 hours ago, John Matthews said:

"People" complain about the bitrate because although the specs say it's 237mbps in C4K, it's a variable bitrate (but the UHD mode is a constant bitrate). On certain frames, it'll drop all the way down to 40mbps because it's "enough".

The OM-1 doesn't have the 24p C4K VBR 237Mbps mode. C4K has the same bitrate choices as UHD i.e. 102Mbps for 24/25/30p and 202Mbps for 50/60p H.264 and 77/152Mbps H.265. I think these are variable bitrate, but in reality the overall file bitrate usually comes out close to the nominal rates.

5 hours ago, John Matthews said:

If price were the main concern (and it probably shouldn't, value and needs are better to consider), I think the very best for the price are the GH5 and E-M1 ii, the later better for AF. I personally don't think 10bit vs. 8bit is really that big of a deal (depending on the usage).

Having owned both the E-M1 ii and iii, I'd choose the iii - I think the improvements in video C-AF and video IBIS are worth the difference in used price (and you get an AF joystick). But video quality is the same on both (to my eyes anyway). Both of them have probably the best ergonomics and 'feel' of any camera I've ever owned (and great battery life).

[John Matthews]

4 minutes ago, ac6000cw said:

Having owned both the E-M1 ii and iii, I'd choose the iii

The e-m1x is now cheaper than the iii. Just food for thought. I've also heard the e-m1x has better C-AF than the iii, due to the dual processors?

[ac6000cw]

27 minutes ago, John Matthews said:

The e-m1x is now cheaper than the iii.

Doubtless because most people regard it as a 'hulk' - but you do get the equivalent of a free, non-removable battery grip included, as well as an earlier version of the Ai subject detection and tracking that's in the OM-1 (which isn't in the E-M1 iii that followed the E-M1x).

28 minutes ago, John Matthews said:

I've also heard the e-m1x has better C-AF than the iii, due to the dual processors?

I've never owned one (or had any interest in such a large m43 camera), but in theory it may/should have.