Lumix and...Sony?

[MrSMW]

Hello 🤗

For those that are interested, finally, I reached 'peak camera' for my needs.

When I say 'peak camera' I really mean 'peak set up' which includes; camera bodies, lenses, audio gear, tripods, etc, ie, 'everything' I need to do my job.

My job is a multi-day coverage, destination wedding, hybrid shooter and has been for the last 24 years, the most recent 22 full-time and the hybrid part for the last 14.

It's been a real battle these last 14 years as a one man band to get that balance of kit that allows for 3 factors:

A. Creativity, not stifled by...

B. operating issues which could be anything from too many units, to too big & heavy, through ergonomics to...well anything that is more operational and logistical.

C. Repeatable consistency at or above a certain level.

I haven't tried every combo known to man because that would be impossible, but far too many to mention, but as above, 100% confident I have now reached 'peak set up'.

As the title suggest, that is a combo of principally Lumix and Sony for bodies, Lumix, Sigma and Tamron for lenses, Rode for audio, Smallrig for cages/grips and tripods.

Specifically:

My previous set up to date was:

1 static video + 1 roaming/semi-static video + 2 photo

It's now

2 static video + 1 roaming video + 1 photo

So it's still a 4 unit set up, but with two considerable exceptions:

A. Instead of 1 static and 3 cameras on my person, I now only ever have 2 on me, which is a big deal.

B. Both of those units on me are smaller and lighter than they previously were, which adds even further in significance because smaller & lighter = faster, more creative and less fatigue.

I did want to go to a 3 unit set up and it's possible, but it's just that one step too complicated and financially starts getting very silly, so just a no.

I'm sticking with L Mount for video. For my needs, whether static or roaming handheld with IBIS and no gimbal, it just works for me. The output is very high quality and the log footage is very easy to work with and the file sizes not stupidly large.

A used pair of S5ii's are doing the business here. One I already had and has been my workhorse since it came out last year and the other just arrived with a pair of used (most of my gear I buy used if and when I can) battery grips as during longer ceremonies and speeches, a single battery gets me concerned whereas two I have no concerns over.

A brand spanking new S9 is inbound next month. Until then, the S1H will solider on until it arrives but then sadly, has to go as it will be surplus to requirement. Sadly, because it's the best camera I have ever owned (to date) for video and stills. OK, it does not have the AF of the S5ii, but otherwise kicks its arse everywhere. But gathering dust serves no purpose and it cannot do what the S9 can do at a fraction of the size and weight so...

And for stills? Well that's the Sony, obviously. A7RV. It was always an option lurking in the wings which is why even though I went back to Nikon with the Zf and Z6ii earlier this year purely for stills, I did so with adapted E Mount Tamron glass so that I could go either direction, remain with Nikon or go Sony, any time I felt.

That time is now and Sony won.

Z9? Too big and heavy and not 100% convinced by the e only shutter. Probably would have been fine, but it's a MASSIVE LUMP.

Z8? Nah. I'd rather have a Z9 as there are too many compromises with the Z8 IMO, but see above.

The Zf I have? Nope. Ergonomic pig to use.

Z6ii? Nope, too slow. It's like wading through mud operating that thing, unlike the Zf which is fast, but ergonomically shite.

Z6iii? I thought it was going to be but I am having a few niggling issues with the adapted E Mount Tamron lenses. They work well enough most of the time, but not ALL the time. They do require more processing work as they are not native.

Posted in error so with only a brief opportunity to edit, will have to continue in another post below!

[MrSMW]

And as I was saying before I rudely interrupted myself, the A7RV was always lurking in the wings.

Fantastic stills camera with option of 60mp full frame super-detailed files but ability to shoot 26mp crop at a slightly higher res than 24mp FF cameras. That's flexibility!

AF is just best in class.

Rear screen is superb in both resolution and how it rotates and tilts etc.

All 3 Tamron lenses are native so all niggles re. performance, reliability and corrections etc removed.

It's tiny for what it is and so fits with my mantra of 'smaller, lighter, faster'.

My only criticism is it takes a stoopid cfexpress type A card, but hey ho, I got a 500GB for €270 so can't really complain...

So in summary, happy days.

The proof of the pudding as they say is in the eating and that will be the rest of this season, but as far as I am concerned, I have now removed every issue I previously had to juggle or deal with, whether it be cameras, or lenses, or audio, or lighting or tripod heads sagging or gimbals having an electronic jerking fit mid shoot, all whilst sweating profusely on a 35+ degree Celcius French Summers day. Not that we have head any of those this year. Yet...

To conclude, anyone that is interested, feel free too ask anything.

[John Matthews]

When you get it, I'd like to know what you think of the S9 when you get in hand.

[Snowfun]

Interesting! Thank you.

My question would be how you dismissed the Komodo? I’m not suggesting that it is better nor that you should have gone that way but, assuming it crossed your mind, what are the reasons to dismiss it?  

[PannySVHS]

For the S9, testing overheating please, ibis modes in open gate. How much does it crop with highest Ibis when in S35 mode? I am asking due to using 4K60. HD quality in ff and S35. That's a lot. Thanks.:)  @MrSMW

[MrSMW]

15 minutes ago, PannySVHS said:

For the S9, testing overheating please

Well I can’t do that for at least another month as I think the release date is 23rd July?

At least in Europe and then with delivery, might even be early Aug…

I don’t shoot in any of those modes but can certainly try them for you at some point.

I think there’s an equation for the ‘gimbal-like’ crop IBIS mode and I think that info is on the S9 topic?

Fortunately, for my needs, I don’t think I will have any heat related issues,

A. because I will never be shooting more than 10 second clips with it and

B. never had an overheating issue with a Lumix camera before but including the OG S5 which if I remember correctly, lacked the vents of the S5ii?

Never even had a warning or heard anything from any unit, ever, even in 40+ in the shade, full sun, 30+ minute conditions.

Goes back to consistency and trusting your kit. I trust Lumix for anything like this because it has proved itself time and time again to be as good as it gets.

Unlike those flakes over at *cough* Canon 😜

[MrSMW]

47 minutes ago, John Matthews said:

When you get it, I'd like to know what you think of the S9 when you get in hand.

Will do for sure.

It wasn’t even on my radar and I didn’t even know it was coming until a few days prior to the big Japan launch and even then, initially dismissed it as I was not looking for a ‘content creators’ tool and there was so much negativity…but enough positivity from some of the actual filmmakers who attended.

For stills, nah.

For ‘proper’ filmmaking, nah. 

But for what I am interested in which is basically a smaller and lighter S5ii, bingo!

So it very rapidly became of interest to me.

Having extensive use of the S5ii, I can’t see it as being anything but that smaller & lighter unit that suits my needs.

[MrSMW]

51 minutes ago, Snowfun said:

My question would be how you dismissed the Komodo?

I didn’t dismiss it because it wasn’t even in the conversation.

It would be like, “OK, you were shopping around for a hot hatchback circa €15k on the used market, why didn’t you consider a lightly used €75k Porsche Cayenne?”

Pair of bare bones S5ii and a single under 1kg with lens S9 vs 3x rigged out Red Komodo?

No offense, but it would be an utter fucking nightmare! 😂

[MrSMW]

18 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

No offense, but it would be an utter fucking nightmare

And PS, I'm not laughing at you, but laughing at the imaginary scenario where as a one man band hybrid shooter, I attempt to juggle 3x zero IBIS or AF cameras that weigh about 5x as much and cost about that also. If not more.

I also 'dismissed' anything from BM, the Sony Burano and the Alexa LF.

[PannySVHS]

59 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

I don’t shoot in any of those modes but can certainly try them for you at some point.

I think there’s an equation for the ‘gimbal-like’ crop IBIS mode and I think that info is on the S9 topic?

Exactely. That one thing would be perfect, how much extra crop for that gimbal like ibis mode in S35 4K60p? Thanks. And overheating;) Thanks a lot.

[MrSMW]

Well I have been using it with the S5ii since they added it in firmware a month or so back and it’s getting close to double I think, but not quite, compared with say 4k 25/30p in full frame.

With the wide end of my 28-70, the 4k 50/60p equates to 42mm and with the ‘gimbal’ IBIS setting, 50’ish?

Pretty sure the exact figure is in that S9 thread fairly early on so go check there?

[IronFilm]

2 hours ago, MrSMW said:

I also 'dismissed' anything from BM, the Sony Burano and the Alexa LF.

But what about the Sony F65?? You didn't mention anywhere that you ruled that out, did you at least consider it?  It gives you breathtakingly beautiful 8K raw films, and as it is an 8K image, you can pull still images from that too! Truly the ultimate hybrid camera, for filming with and stills. How could such a camera not be on everyone's shortlist?? 

[MrSMW]

50 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

But what about the Sony F65??

It was out of stock and I was so high on crystal meth, I couldn’t be bothered to look any further.

Then just forgot about it. Until just now, but hey ho, next time maybe?

[MrSMW]

But being serious, I had to rule out Canon completely due to cost and ideally I would have kept things totally L Mount, but even if an S1H or S2R appears by the end of this season, the glass just is not there yet for my needs.

That new Sigma 28-45 f1.8 would make a great workhorse…up to ‘50’ but then anything longer such as a 70-200 is just massive.

I popped the f4 version of that lens on my S1H and handed it to my wife today and then the Z6ii with Tamron 70-180.

The former weighs 2.42kg and the latter 1.21kg which is exactly 50%.

Swap out the Z6ii for the vastly more capable (than the Z6ii or S1H) A7RV and the weight remains about the same…and that is the heaviest combo in my revised arsenal.

The S9 combo will be under 1kg compared with my current S5ii set up which is approx 1.7kg.

The pair of S5ii’s including lenses and battery grips are approx 1.5kg each but will live on tripods other than for transportation.

These are considerable weight savings considering my 3 current ‘on me’ working units added up to:

1.3kg + 1.6kg + 1.8kg = 4.7kg

Compared with what very shortly be:

1kg + 1.3kg = 2.3kg, ie, <50%

Nerdy numbers aside, the weight saving alone is huge, but then factor in having to juggle just 2 units instead of 3 and with vastly increased stills capacity with the stills unit of that pairing.

Or I could rig out a Komodo and employ sherpas to lug my gear and operate the follow focus. If any of them are not too busy also doubling as my son et lumière team…

Fuji could have done it all with 3x XH2’s and a single XH2, but the less than stellar AF puts me off. Plus it would be starting from scratch and the cost would have been mucho.

What about going full Sony and flipping all the L Mount?

Cost. Could have done it with a pair of FX30’s plus an FX3 on top of the A7RV for stills, but even more mucho costo over Fuji and what I have gone for.

[MrSMW]

M4/3? For video yes. For stills no, but cost...

I know there are cheaper options, but I wouldn't consider anything less than 3x GH7 and the fast f1.8 zooms so again, cost just kills it. And to be honest, I'm not especially interested in going back to M4/3, but it was a consideration.

I've considered everything basically. Except the Komodo et al.

[ArashM]

@MrSMW Thank you for writing out your thoughts, it's always helpful to read.

I know you have them in other posts but please remind me (us) which Tamron E-Mount lenses do you have?

 

[IronFilm]

10 hours ago, MrSMW said:

It was out of stock and I was so high on crystal meth, I couldn’t be bothered to look any further.

That's a pity you didn't put in a little extra effort to look further. There is one listed right now for only US$12K: https://www.ebay.com/itm/175568291816 

You missed out on a bargain! 

[MrSMW]

9 hours ago, ArashM said:

@MrSMW Thank you for writing out your thoughts, it's always helpful to read.

I know you have them in other posts but please remind me (us) which Tamron E-Mount lenses do you have?

 

I know a few enjoy my occasional kit ramble and as I have often said, I do like good kit, but do not collect 'toys' for the sake of it. Plus I am actually a minimalist at heart and if I could only own one camera and one lens, I would! But if my update rambles help other folks in some of their own choices, then good.

20-40 f2.8

28-75 f2.8 G2

70-180 f2.8 G2

As far as I am aware, the smallest and lightest and greatest range of f2.8 zooms available from any manufacturer.

One of my 'criticisms' of Nikon is rebadging the original versions and charging more for them, but I digress...

Sigma do an excellent 16-28 f2.8 I had for a season, but I found it just a bit too wide and two of my 'favourite' focal lengths are 20mm and 40mm making the widest of my zooms, absolutely perfect for my needs. It weighs only 365g which is super light for such a great lens which in crop mode, is still a fantastic 30-60mm lens.

I have the 28-70mm f2.8 from Sigma since it's launch and it's been my workhorse in both stills and more recently, video use. At 470g compared with your more typical 24-70 weighing in at anything from 750-1000, again, it's a lightweight gem. It remains firmly in it's current role as primary run & gun video lens.

The Tamron version the 28-75mm f2.8 replaced the above as my primary stills lens this year and it's been superb. Some folks prefer a wider 24mm, but not me and it may be only 4mm, but I just don't get on with the 24mm focal length and prefer 28mm as my 'medium wide'. The 'extra' 5mm at the long end is also a bonus. It's slightly heavier than the Sigma at 540g, but that is still lightweight for what it is. Paired with the A7RV, it's an insanely good combo at approx 1350g including Smallrig baseplate either as a full 61mp unit, or as a 42-110mm 26mp set up.

And finally the 70-180mm f2.8 G2 weighing in at just 855g. OK, it gives up 20mm at the long end, but I could not care less as it's both lighter and a stop faster than my Lumix 70-200mm f4 and all 70-200mm f2.8's are typically 1250-1500g in L Mount which is considerable on a camera body, especially without a battery grip.

That has been one of my big issues with L Mount, - I always needed a battery grip to balance those bigger zooms but that just added even more weight and pushed units run hand well over 2.5kg which all day long is just a bit too much!

Summary, - absolutely zero criticisms of these Tamron lenses. They just do exactly what I want and need them to do and we could always wish for even more compact and lighter, but they are IMO, the finest range of zoom lenses currently available for me today.

But what about those 35-150 f2/2.8 options available from Tamron and Samyang? Considered but just too big and heavy and external zooming.

Either would require a battery grip for me to use and as with those 70-200's, just even more bulk so just no.

The only advantage of one of these and slight criticism of my current trio of zooms is it would save on changing lenses, but the way I work, this happens so infrequently, it's not an issue...

28-75mm from start of day until start of ceremony. Change to 70-180 for ceremony and then back to 28-75 until speeches when it's back to 70-180 with final switch to end the day to 20-40 for dancing which is just 4 actual lens changes in a typical 12 hour shoot. It's not an issue.

I would however be interested in a similar sized and performing sibling to the new Sigma 28-45mm f1.8. If Sigma bring out something like a 45-90mm f1.8 version of this lens, I would consider swapping the Tamron trio for just these 2 lenses. OK they are bigger and heavier, but do not require a battery grip and the extra quality and capability combined with the cropping ability of the A7RV would make this duo very viable. But as the latter lens does not exist...

[mercer]

It's cool that you are figuring out your perfect kit, but after reading the reasons why, I am brought to the conclusion that mirrorless cameras, when you add lens design, offers little advantage over DSLRs for size.

I understand that this may not affect you, but for a lot of folks, you can get a better balanced camera with a DSLR and a smaller lens. With mirrorless, it seems that the script is just flipped.

Obviously, that doesn't pertain to everything. There are plenty of small prime lenses that work perfectly for these small, mirrorless cameras, but once you bring fast(ish) zooms into the equation, which are very attractive, the benefits of mirrorless become minimal... especially when you consider the cost for these zoom lenses.

I often read that you can also adapt almost any lens to these mirrorless cameras, but it seems that a lot of folks that say that, usually only shoot with native lenses.

[mercer]

That said... it's kinda moot because other than Pentax, nobody really makes DSLRs anymore... or better said... they don't release new models.

For me, other than IBIS, the 1DXiii is close to my perfect camera. I guess the R3 would be the comparable mirrorless.