Super Members BTM_Pix Posted July 11 Author Super Members Share Posted July 11 34 minutes ago, eatstoomuchjam said: The R5, with its original firmware, was a problem for this since its recovery time was based on a timer instead of sensors. After that shithousery was exposed by the work we did on here with it you’d have thought that recovery times and techniques would be front and centre of these “reviews” but sadly not. Particularly in this instance when the reviewer in question can’t exactly plead ignorance over it. eatstoomuchjam and sanveer 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSMW Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 Are the overheating times on this thing an issue? I don’t know and I’m not really the market for it anyway…but then I thought that initially about the S9 and have one on preorder… Do Sony care or not care about this? Don’t know the answer to that either other than the cine-line cameras have cooling don’t they? The S9 will be the first FF camera I have had without it and we’ll see how it goes but I ‘think’ it’s not going to be a problem for my use case which is typically 150+ 10 second clips over a 12 hour period. For any kind of video work with Sony, I don’t think I’d look at anything less than an FX30 today. Had the ZV1 previously and had overheating issues as I did with the RX100V but not the RX100ii. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Members BTM_Pix Posted July 11 Author Super Members Share Posted July 11 14 minutes ago, MrSMW said: The S9 will be the first FF camera I have had without it and we’ll see how it goes but I ‘think’ it’s not going to be a problem for my use case which is typically 150+ 10 second clips over a 12 hour period. It'll do it if you are shooting the event through a window 😉 I think the 10 minute record limit will help in terms of limiting the impact in respect of giving it less opportunity to roast the balls off it (likely intentional) but those tests are at 4K30 so your particular mileage may vary as you will be using higher frame rates. Of course, there is no "gold standard" (sic) review as he threw his toys out of the pram with regard to the S9. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newfoundmass Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 8 hours ago, BTM_Pix said: It'll do it if you are shooting the event through a window 😉 I think the 10 minute record limit will help in terms of limiting the impact in respect of giving it less opportunity to roast the balls off it (likely intentional) but those tests are at 4K30 so your particular mileage may vary as you will be using higher frame rates. Of course, there is no "gold standard" (sic) review as he threw his toys out of the pram with regard to the S9. To me, putting a recording limit on a camera that is likely to overheat is the way to go. Whether it's a large issue for most users or not, not giving people an idea on how long they can actually record before it overheats is something that can easily be avoided with a simple limit, certain companies just don't do it because they remember the complaints they got from the 30 minute recording limits. At least Panasonic is being honest in telling people heating is an issue and here is how we are attempting to mitigate it while giving you an idea on how long you can actually film with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emanuel Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 20 hours ago, kye said: Absolutely. I once overheated an iPhone shooting in direct sun in probably 40-43C (104-110F), and considering that iPhones overheating is something that is practically unheard of, overheating is something I pay a lot of attention to. I already have lost my part in a few of them with my OnePlus 9 Pro, pure true, so me too, 1st scope to pay attention to. And hence why my recent FX30 purchase is the answer for. No active cooling? Not my wallet : ) No small overheating toasters are breaking my heart nor bank account : D either such as a Z8 unit BTW :- ) kye 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronFilm Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 22 hours ago, Davide DB said: Sony practically doesn't give a shit about overheating. In fact, it is now a trademark. It seems here in Italy in the summer you can't use the camera at home. I guess for their use case (vlogging, so mostly short clips of a few minutes at a time) of Sony's target market then they think stats like this (getting nearly a whole hour or more in most cases for 4K 24fps) is perfectly fine. If you need professional reliability then there is an easy solution: spend twice as more and get a Sony FX30 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronFilm Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 13 hours ago, eatstoomuchjam said: For a shooter that is doing long form interviews/talking head content and concerts, 12 or 20 minutes before overheating is a big deal. That's probably regarded as being at least at "the level of" of a casual semi-pro user, thus they "should" get a Sony FX30. 13 hours ago, eatstoomuchjam said: For any vlogging that I've ever done, it's usually in the form of several-minute takes followed by several minutes when I'm not rolling. So maybe at most a dozen minutes talking plus a dozen minutes of not recording (but still turned on) afterwards? That fits well inside the overheating specs for the ZV-E10mk2, and is the type of intended users for it. 13 hours ago, eatstoomuchjam said: For narrative, the camera is usually rolling for less than 10 minutes for any given take and there are usually at least 3-4 minutes between takes (and more like 5-10 minutes between setups). Although on a narrative a camera might easily go 11hrs without ever being turned off for even one second. 3 hours ago, newfoundmass said: To me, putting a recording limit on a camera that is likely to overheat is the way to go. Whether it's a large issue for most users or not, not giving people an idea on how long they can actually record before it overheats is something that can easily be avoided with a simple limit, certain companies just don't do it because they remember the complaints they got from the 30 minute recording limits. At least Panasonic is being honest in telling people heating is an issue and here is how we are attempting to mitigate it while giving you an idea on how long you can actually film with it. I don't mind there being "recording limits" if you have a way to override it, such as in settings choosing "High Temperature" allowed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ac6000cw Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 As BTM_Pix said in the first post, Sony will sell loads of ZV-E10 ii. Sony has deliberately created a video/content creation oriented camera line (ZV-1x, ZV-E10x, ZV-E1, FX30, FX3) to sit alongside their stills orientated line (RX100x, A6x, A7x, A9, A1), with a clear upgrade/upselling path from low end to high end in each case. I don't think any other camera company has that, so it makes Sony the obvious video/content creation go-to brand for people who want to move away from using a smartphone or action cam for it. Sony obviously set out to dominate that area of the market a few years ago and I think they're succeeding - their competitors are either playing catch-up or just not bothering/can't afford it and heading down their own niche rabbit hole. Not all of the ZV-line are brilliant cameras, but they don't have to be when there's a better/different/more expensive camera you can sell customers instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronFilm Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 2 hours ago, ac6000cw said: ZV-1x damn, I didn't realize quite how many of them there are: ZV-1mk1, ZV-1mk2, ZV-1F (plus all the different colors/kits) 2 hours ago, ac6000cw said: Not all of the ZV-line are brilliant cameras, but they don't have to be when there's a better/different/more expensive camera you can sell customers instead. It is perfect market segmentation, is the ZV-1 not right for you? That's ok, we've got the more expensive ZV-E10mk1! Still not enough for you? How about the ZV-E10mk2 or even the ZV-E1? No? Maybe the FX30 or FX3 then. And so on and so on, all the way up until they're then getting the Sony VENICE2! ha MrSMW 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ac6000cw Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 44 minutes ago, IronFilm said: It is perfect market segmentation, is the ZV-1 not right for you? That's ok, we've got the more expensive ZV-E10mk1! Still not enough for you? How about the ZV-E10mk2 or even the ZV-E1? No? Maybe the FX30 or FX3 then. Yep - it's exactly what you'd expect a major consumer electronics company to do (and Sony has been a pre-eminent one of those for many decades), and is pretty much what they've done in the full-frame MILC area - pushing out five generations of A7 cameras in a decade, including standard, high res (R), compact body (C) and video orientated (S) versions. Davide DB 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newfoundmass Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 13 hours ago, IronFilm said: I guess for their use case (vlogging, so mostly short clips of a few minutes at a time) of Sony's target market then they think stats like this (getting nearly a whole hour or more in most cases for 4K 24fps) is perfectly fine. If you need professional reliability then there is an easy solution: spend twice as more and get a Sony FX30 Reliability shouldn't be reserved strictly for professionals. sanveer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eatstoomuchjam Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 1 hour ago, newfoundmass said: Reliability shouldn't be reserved strictly for professionals. But it also shouldn't be expected for free. 😄 IronFilm 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newfoundmass Posted July 13 Share Posted July 13 3 hours ago, eatstoomuchjam said: But it also shouldn't be expected for free. 😄 Brother, no offense but I think you should rename yourself to EatsTooMuchBoot cause this kind of attitude toward any company is ridiculous. The least they owe you is reliability. sanveer and eatstoomuchjam 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eatstoomuchjam Posted July 13 Share Posted July 13 32 minutes ago, newfoundmass said: Brother, no offense but I think you should rename yourself to EatsTooMuchBoot cause this kind of attitude toward any company is ridiculous. The least they owe you is reliability Brother, no offense, but aside from being a bit funny, that's a really dumb statement and your overall attitude on this seems like typical internet forum spazzing. I haven't shot Sony in years - but I've seen/heard nothing about this camera that makes it seem unreliable, other than that it overheats on long takes. And now you, as an informed consumer, know that if you'd like to record longer takes, you would be better served by either purchasing a camera that doesn't overheat or using one of those modes on this one which doesn't. For a majority of people in it's target market of internet content creators/vloggers, it will give them something like 60-80% of the features of the FX30 at 60% of the price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronFilm Posted July 13 Share Posted July 13 9 hours ago, newfoundmass said: Reliability shouldn't be reserved strictly for professionals. Everything comes at a cost. Look at hosting costs when you demand 99.9% uptime vs 99.999% uptime vs 99.9999% uptime That increased reliability comes at a very very hefty cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leon Postma Posted July 13 Share Posted July 13 2 hours ago, IronFilm said: Everything comes at a cost. Look at hosting costs when you demand 99.9% uptime vs 99.999% uptime vs 99.9999% uptime That increased reliability comes at a very very hefty cost. True for centralized systems - not so much for decentralized systems like bitcoin which had only 2 outages since its inception. You can transfer a million dollar’s worth of btc across the world for a few bucks. Try that doing through the traditional banking system. https://bitcoinuptime.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newfoundmass Posted July 13 Share Posted July 13 13 hours ago, eatstoomuchjam said: Brother, no offense, but aside from being a bit funny, that's a really dumb statement and your overall attitude on this seems like typical internet forum spazzing. Thinking a company should, at bare minimum, release products that are reliable isn't internet forum spazzing, haha. "They shouldn't offer that for free" is some bootlicking type behavior, whether it's people excusing Sony, Canon, or whoever. You're not asking for it for free, you're paying a $1000 for a camera! 13 hours ago, eatstoomuchjam said: I haven't shot Sony in years - but I've seen/heard nothing about this camera that makes it seem unreliable, other than that it overheats on long takes. And now you, as an informed consumer, know that if you'd like to record longer takes, you would be better served by either purchasing a camera that doesn't overheat or using one of those modes on this one which doesn't. For a majority of people in it's target market of internet content creators/vloggers, it will give them something like 60-80% of the features of the FX30 at 60% of the price. It really isn't relevant what brand you shoot, it's that you make that excuse for ANY company that is the problem. I really can't believe though that we're in 2024 and people are justifying overheating, particularly for cameras that are targeting video creators! People surely shouldn't have to watch a 20 minute video to watch some dude sitting in his "studio" tell you that the camera overheats. As much as it bummed me to have a recording limit, at least with my original S5s I knew how long I could record and bought the camera knowing that limit directly from the manufacturer. That recording limit also at least told me how much video I could reliably record in 60fps, too. I also didn't experience overheating with it even in 98 degree weather under direct sunlight, imagine that! 10 hours ago, IronFilm said: Everything comes at a cost. Look at hosting costs when you demand 99.9% uptime vs 99.999% uptime vs 99.9999% uptime That increased reliability comes at a very very hefty cost. Again, those hosting companies are clear about it up front. If a camera company can't guarantee reliability past a certain time then recording limits should be imposed so people can reliably judge how long they can record. Transparency and honesty doesn't cost these companies a thing, some just don't care about their customers enough to give it. I can kind of see why, because people are all too happy to make excuses for them. eatstoomuchjam 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eatstoomuchjam Posted July 13 Share Posted July 13 4 hours ago, newfoundmass said: Thinking a company should, at bare minimum, release products that are reliable isn't internet forum spazzing, haha. "They shouldn't offer that for free" is some bootlicking type behavior, whether it's people excusing Sony, Canon, or whoever. You're not asking for it for free, you're paying a $1000 for a camera! Dude claims not to be spazzing and then spazzes some more. 🤣 4 hours ago, newfoundmass said: It really isn't relevant what brand you shoot, it's that you make that excuse for ANY company that is the problem. I really can't believe though that we're in 2024 and people are justifying overheating, particularly for cameras that are targeting video creators! People surely shouldn't have to watch a 20 minute video to watch some dude sitting in his "studio" tell you that the camera overheats. People who are spending $1,000 on a product usually do a bit of research on it beforehand. Seems like it's possible to find out about the recording time limits from nearly any written or video review. 4 hours ago, newfoundmass said: If a camera company can't guarantee reliability past a certain time then recording limits should be imposed so people can reliably judge how long they can record. "I would really prefer that companies crippled my camera so that even when recording in a refrigerator, I would still be stuck with the same short clips that would guarantee that it wouldn't overheat at 45C. Arbitrary limits are super cool which is why everybody loved the R5 so much when it came out." 🤡 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emanuel Posted July 15 Share Posted July 15 This is what I like: https://www.recordinglimits.com/sony-alpha-fx30/ : D eatstoomuchjam 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcio Kabke Pinheiro Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 On 7/11/2024 at 10:03 AM, BTM_Pix said: Or the whole thing is completely overblown because four minutes of shock content on that is far easier to produce than four minutes of representative content produced by light from the great outdoors actually hitting the sensor. I'm absolutely no fan of this fella but this is a far more representative real world performance evaluation (queued up to overheating section). In looking at that section, he didn't have the screen out and maybe the fro was acting as a shade and no mention is made of recovery time and would have been better using a dummy battery in that situation etc etc. With Fro's hair, the camera is ALWAYS on a shade. 🙂 One (not very elegant solution) is using some 3rd party fan. I had the 1st version of the Ulanzi one and tested in a torture test in my X-S20 (35 degrees Celsius, 12 o clock, camera under full sun) - without the fan the camera overheated after around 25 minutes, with the fan it lasted until the battery died. The newer version uses a srping to attach in the camera back, much better than the suction cups of the 1st one. Smallrig launched external fan these days too. Kinda clunky solutions, but if you are cash strapped, it works (here in Brazil cameras costs A LOT more, and the 1st ZV-E10 was a huge seller). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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