pietz Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 At this point I am 99% convinced the a7s will do 4K at 60fps. 100% absolute positivity this will not happen with A7s II........ At most A7s may do 120fps at 1080p, it is quite insane to even think they can get 60fps at 4k when we will be lucky to have it at 24/30.and im 70% sure the both of you don't understand how percentage works. Liam 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBounce Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 100% absolute positivity this will not happen with A7s II........ At most A7s may do 120fps at 1080p, it is quite insane to even think they can get 60fps at 4k when we will be lucky to have it at 24/30.If it can't it's sales will be cut short when the new Samsung NX1 successor is released, because it's very likely to be packing 60fps 4k. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damphousse Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 If there is anything groundbreaking about Sony's new lineup it's simply this... it's a clear message that any camera released from this point on, sans 4k will be a certain failure. The 1080p Blackmagic Micro Cinema Camera with internal raw recording on SD cards and global shutter for less than $1,000 says "hi". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Promit Roy Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 This is kind of idiotic statement as digital sensors don't have colors. Look it up. The color comes after processing data from bayer filter, which isn't a sensor but thin glass on top of sensor), color is mostly interpretation. by software. http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/camera-sensors.htmDigital Sensors don't have colors. It's not a filmSensors don't have colors, but the internal image processing sure as hell does. Actually, the Bayer filter array also has physical colors associated with it and not everyone is using the same colors. Still, it'd be one thing if we were all grading 12/14 bit raw output off the camera sensor but we're not talking about that. We're talking about video recording in 8 bit 4:2:0, which means the camera's color interpretation is heavily baked in. You can't just hand wave away the intrinsic color settings of a camera because of color grading. Color grade those blue clipped highlights, why don't you?On the flip side, often times these cameras have surprising settings that produce great colors. Andrew's done a great job of documenting these in the past, for example the 'Sunset' trick. It remains to be seen whether the color science has been changed or improved in this new camera. Marco Tecno 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBounce Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 The 1080p Blackmagic Micro Cinema Camera with internal raw recording on SD cards and global shutter for less than $1,000 says "hi". Yes, that one also will fail... And since it's not even released yet, I'm not sure how showing a picture of it proves my statement incorrect? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damphousse Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 And since it's not even released yet, I'm not sure how showing a picture of it proves my statement incorrect?Lol. So you base your thesis on three cameras that haven't been released yet... but when someone debunks you with a camera that hasn't been released yet it doesn't count? Sounds to me like you just like 4k for whatever reason and are back solving into that conclusion.I have nothing against 4k. I just don't think motion picture studios are going to throw all their old Alexas in the trash bin because an RX10 with 4k comes out. Seriously? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ebrahim Saadawi Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 The rx10 will have more resolution than the Alexa, but motion picture studios will not replace the alexa with it because the alexa has the other 11 elements of image quality the rx10 doesn't have. Image quality is not just resolution. It's one of many. Having high resolution on our low-end cameras give us a chance to hugely increase our production value and give an image that has the wow factor to our clients. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBounce Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 The rx10 will have more resolution than the Alexa, but motion picture studios will not replace the alexa with it because the alexa has the other 11 elements of image quality the rx10 doesn't have. Image quality is not just resolution. It's one of many. Having high resolution on our low-end cameras give us a chance to hugely increase our production value and give an image that has the wow factor to our clients. I think a lot can be done in post to get a pretty filmic look. Of course I know good cinematography is a must have. But with a modern camera that has good resolution, flat profile, and good dr, a lot is possible. I firmly believe these cameras are marking a new era in the camera industry. If I'm wrong they will be flops. But don't count on that. The only question is what can we expect from the A7sii and the NX1ii? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amanieux Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 impressive amount of information to start from as 4k is downsampled from full frame 42Mpixels, but only 100Mbit/s h264 at the output (nx1 has a 160Mbits/s equivalent in h264) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amanieux Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 The rx10 will have more resolution than the Alexa, but motion picture studios will not replace the alexa with it because the alexa has the other 11 elements of image quality the rx10 doesn't have. Image quality is not just resolution. It's one of many. Having high resolution on our low-end cameras give us a chance to hugely increase our production value and give an image that has the wow factor to our clients. very true, it is not the same segment - it is as if you compared a ford focus MK.II to a rolls roys because they both had the same maximum speed.(by the way about pure specs sheet 4k are not made equal , don't you remember the 5d mark 3 1080p that was equivalent to a gh2 in 720p) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Members Mattias Burling Posted June 13, 2015 Super Members Share Posted June 13, 2015 The 1080p Blackmagic Micro Cinema Camera with internal raw recording on SD cards and global shutter for less than $1,000 says "hi".Im with you. The Micro is more exciting and more likely to be my next buy than any of the Sonys.In my book Raw trumps 4K.(and yes I like 4K just as much as the next guy, have bought 3 4k cameras so far.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j.f.r. Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 If it can't it's sales will be cut short when the new Samsung NX1 successor is released, because it's very likely to be packing 60fps 4k.No One who is considering buying a Sony will buy a Samsung camera...... Honestly how do you even put the two in the same classSony A7s is a professional tool being used already in productions around the world with excellent dynamic range, asa and most importantly full frame. NO non FF camera will ever be a substitute. Same like the Samaung will NEVER cut into the Mark III sales, it just doesn't happen. 4k is great, but Canon is still the #1 seller and they don't even have that in any of their consumer/prosumer cameras. Samsung needs to work on dynamic range and asa which is more important than simply resolution a GoPro shoots 4k at 30fps and while the resolution is very helpful it's simply used for another aspect of filming. Personally I think the Samsung camera didn't even sell and might be discontinued, specs aren't everything..... Samsung NX1 has sold poorly, has received price cuts and it's basically selling for $1300 and no one wants one.......... The 1080p Blackmagic Micro Cinema Camera with internal raw recording on SD cards and global shutter for less than $1,000 says "hi".Blackmagic is a very intelligent company that worked on their dynamic range/color science / compression before just wanted higher resolution and frame rate. Blackmagic is the future, the only problem I see is still not very good asa, but other than that it's ticks A LOT of boxes. I plan on buying an Ursa Mini or Sony Fs7 sometime in the near future, but the Micro Camera is definitely an amazing tool at an Amazing price coming to everyone just like the Pocket Camera was. My serious drawback was I need 60fps, luckily the new Micro Camera will give us that. Sensor crop ,1080p and Low Light Performance though is still a reason why 5D Mark III and Sony A7s will still sell though...... Celli 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amanieux Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Wowzahs. Sony upping the ante. That's good for the market! Take notice Nikon & Canon!Too bad the IV can only record 4K up to 5 mins. Seemed to have figured out fast readouts, now we need something against overheating, that doesn't include a cooldown period after a couple of minutes shooting. Too bad indeed no A7SII yet. With image stablization could be quite something. But perhaps the A7RII surprises!why dont they put a heat sensor and stop the recording based on heat and not on time ? (so we have the option to cool it down from the outside with $5 heatsink and fan (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA45H22W1786 )or a $50 water cooler (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103195) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
core_38 Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 I don't get it, how can a camera with an 8 bit video image still be in demand? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amanieux Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 I wonder how the low light performance would be with a 42MP sensor...general answer to this question : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KYvp8PrCFc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amanieux Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 impressive amount of information to start from as 4k is downsampled from full frame 42Mpixels, but only 100Mbit/s h264 at the output (nx1 has a 160Mbits/s equivalent in h264)and in aps-c crop it may be worse than the aps-c nx1 also BSI (we will see the comparisons i am sure) as there will less information before compression (downsampling 5k vs 6.5k) and after compression (100Mbits/s vs 160Mbits equivalent in h264) Marco Tecno 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amanieux Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 That's my feeling as well. I'm really anxious to upgrade. I want to invest in a nice camera that handles 4k properly. I felt like this first generation of the 4k wave -- NX1, GH4, A7s -- was like every new techology, where the first generation is just trial balloons for the real upgrade in Round 2.As tempting as it is to think that the A7Rii is finally what we've all been waiting for, I'm a bit suspicious of the specs. I'm blown away, but I have a nagging sense that this is just the pre-game for me being totally blown away by some announcement just around the corner by a film-oriented camera. But I'm pretty anxious to find out when that's going to be. Sony will probably hold out on announcements in order to try and not cannibalize their products more than they already are (that is, already a lot).But god -- I just want this 4k revolution to hurry up so I can put my time and effort into mastering a camera and working on creative elements -- not worrying about the new industry/consumer camera standards that will destroy all the value of a significant camera investment. $3.2k is a reasonable price for a camera that will remain high-end for several years. It's an unfathomable waste when a better camera will be released six months later....i agree, we are still in the first gen 4k, the next step for 4k camera is to put more computing power in order to have better algorithms to scale down from full sensor information and do more real time processing for image improvement such as noise reduction.(nx1 is leading this trend with 6.5k downsampled to 4k in real time). just an idea but why don't they put a m2 format ssd (the size of 3 sd card) to write raw 4k at the required 500MB/s and post process the information in camera afterward this will not only improve quality but also solve overheating issues (you can process 1 min of footage in 5 minutes with a lot of heat but if you do it in 10 minutes, it will be 4x less heat as thermal dissipation vs mips is exponential. why cant filmakers go and have lunch after shooting something or let it process during the night in the camera (though we will need bigger batteries ) ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBounce Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 No One who is considering buying a Sony will buy a Samsung camera...... Honestly how do you even put the two in the same classSony A7s is a professional tool being used already in productions around the world with excellent dynamic range, asa and most importantly full frame. NO non FF camera will ever be a substitute. Same like the Samaung will NEVER cut into the Mark III sales, it just doesn't happen. 4k is great, but Canon is still the #1 seller and they don't even have that in any of their consumer/prosumer cameras.I can see you love fulI frame, but is not S35 the defacto standard in film? And the Samsung sensor size is aps-c/s35. Also the Samsung is 6k down-sampled to 4k. The new model is rumored to have better DR, and 60fps 4k. With the h.265 HEVC this should be feasible. I would not be too sure that no one will cross shop the Samsung and the Sony. Marco Tecno 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j.f.r. Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 I can see you love fulI frame, but is not S35 the defacto standard in film? And the Samsung sensor size is aps-c/s35. Also the Samsung is 6k down-sampled to 4k. The new model is rumored to have better DR, and 60fps 4k. With the h.265 HEVC this should be feasible. I would not be too sure that no one will cross shop the Samsung and the Sony.The film industry is moving to larger sensors #FactAlso outside of S35 crop format the Samsung lacks, dynamic range and color to even be anywhere close to considered a film camera. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristoferman Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 The film industry is moving to larger sensors #FactAlso outside of S35 crop format the Samsung lacks, dynamic range and color to even be anywhere close to considered a film camera. You referring to color science or bit depth? From what I've seen the nx has great color science. Sekhar, Marco Tecno and Geoff CB 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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