Emanuel Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 15 minutes ago, newfoundmass said: I guess it's good that they provide a solution but having to drop $400 to get a handgrip with a fan in it raises a lot of red flags. I don't even know how that even will work to cool the camera body, honestly. Yup, I've just seen it: Looks like an interesting attempt for issues which made me completely away from the predecessor and Z8 either. So, go imagine how much they have lost with a glass addicted like me... LOL ; ) Here's Gordon's written input, I like this guy because he is oldschool as far as his approach concerns. Who needs any different route? ;- ) https://www.cameralabs.com/canon-eos-r5-mark-ii-review/ Davide DB 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emanuel Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 PS: I wrote attempt right there because as far as the reviewer hints this will only help a bit on the most demanding recording modes... How much improve it will be is something yet to be responded in further testing from those distinct fan and recording option modes and respective circumstances. But TBH stands as a fair concern no less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eatstoomuchjam Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 As to the question of "how" it will work, I saw earlier that the vents are on the bottom of the camera body and on one of the sides. One would assume that the grip has holes that mate with the holes on the bottom of the camera and the fan accelerates air flow through the camera and over the sensor. This would also explain why it doesn't help a lot in the most demanding modes - it's a pretty clunky way get air over the relevant components. It still doesn't seem like a cause for the rage that sometimes accompanies recording limits, though. Being able to roll 37 minutes of 8kp30 without a fan and 120+ minutes with one is pretty alright. 4kp60 says 120+ minutes as well without a fan. Seems like a fine mode for long-form interviews, concerts, etc. If you need to run 8kp60 raw or 4kp120 takes for more than 20 minutes or so, Canon will be glad to let you know that you should choose a different camera for that - like their very own R5C which has a much better cooling system and is available on the used market for more than $1,000 less than this camera. 😅 Emanuel 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpfilmz Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 8 hours ago, ntblowz said: 16 DR on Clog2 according PR, is that the same as C400? It's image for sure has a great look to it. I was thinking about picking up a Red Komodo but wanted to seen that the R5 MK2 was about and so far it looks great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Andrew Reid Posted July 17 Administrators Share Posted July 17 11 hours ago, BTM_Pix said: The UK price for the R5ii is £4499 versus £3299 for the Z8. The R5ii has some neat new features but the core stuff doesn't seem like its justifying 35% a hike against the more flexible mounted Z8. I'll be interested to see the overheating scrutiny it gets after the erm "interesting" history of the mark 1. That price difference is absolutely nuts. The R5 II is objectively worse than a Z8... Not by a lot, but in terms of the overall technology under the hood, the fact it needs a fan, the lack of ProRes and the worse RAW codec, and also the worse lens mount which cannot accept adapters to Sony E-mount - and I am not sure there is a autofocusing Leica M adapter either? Or Super 16mm c-mount? So that for me, is what killed the EOS R3 vs Nikon Z9 and it is same with the new models. Overheating times don't make for great reading either: https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canon-eos-r5-ii-initial-review/2 Seems like just the original R5 with a re-worked fan from the EOS R5C in terms of thermals of the processor and sensor. And what's up with the R1 - for something that has cooked for 3 and a half years longer than a Sony a1, you'd think it would move the bar a lot higher - instead it is a reheated 1D X Mark III! That for me is a bit of a shocker. I was expecting something completely new and something which really put the relatively old-ish R3 and Z9 in the shade. I guess Canon decided that sports photographers didn't want the extra file sizes of 50MP+, so they played it relatively conservatively? Emanuel 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herein2020 Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 5 hours ago, MrSMW said: Well I do and I don't... 2 of my 4 cameras have battery grips on them and my S1H used to! What I mean is I would prefer a built in grip a la Z9 and R3 rather than screw on ones because I will either use a camera with or without, but never change the set up, if you know what I mean? My pair of S5ii's have a battery grip welded on as both live on tripods for longer form stuff and I'd rather not risk a battery needing to be changed, but the battery grips allow hot swapping so as long as I have spare batteries, until the cards run out! Also, if I am going to be using anything as large as, or larger than a 24-105, I definitely want a grip or I find it's just an unwieldy set up having big heavy lenses on gripless bodies. One of last year's set ups was just crazy though and the was S1H + grip + Leica 24-90 and it was pushing 3kg. I don't run anything now over 1.5kg if I can help it and only have one combo that goes slightly over. I'm trying to shrink everything as much as I can re. anything I have to physically carry or have attached to my person and my current set up is the most capable vs compact, yet. I would have made an exception with one Canon combo though and that would have been the R3 with the 24-105mm f2.8 and only 2 factors put me off... Cost and 24mp. I would have swallowed the first if that body had been or had an option for 45mp because it would then have negated the need for me to have anything but one single 'one & done' lens. I agree, on the cameras that have a battery grip I have never taken them off, but for this scenario where I don't want a battery grip for my gimbal camera but I do want it for my photography camera and I also want both to be the same body, then the versatility is great. 4 hours ago, Davide DB said: I only want to know one thing: where did they hide the cripple hammer? I think 4K60FPS is line skipped, and we still have no idea about overheating so there's that. Also, I would bet money my pet peeve is still there....the video tools like the electronic level and WFM disappear while recording...you know...when you need them the most. 2 hours ago, newfoundmass said: I guess it's good that they provide a solution but having to drop $400 to get a handgrip with a fan in it raises a lot of red flags. I don't even know how that even will work to cool the camera body, honestly. Actually, I think it will be pretty effective. The Cinema line all have a similar fan setup and I have never had my C70 or C200 overheat. The way it works in the R5 II is that it has passive cooling vents on the bottom with the exhaust out to the side. If you add a cooling grip it will pull air through the grip, push it through the bottom intake and vent out the side....this is how they managed to keep weather sealing for the actual body but also offer an active cooling option. For 8K it will still not be enough, but for 4K it should do the trick for most situations. The real question here is will you need it for say a 2hr interview or dance recital or live event when shooting 4K30FPS. My R7 can run unlimited in that scenario at 4K30FPS line skipped. At 4K30FPS oversampled it will overheat in about an hour. Emanuel 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newfoundmass Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 1 hour ago, herein2020 said: Actually, I think it will be pretty effective. The Cinema line all have a similar fan setup and I have never had my C70 or C200 overheat. The way it works in the R5 II is that it has passive cooling vents on the bottom with the exhaust out to the side. If you add a cooling grip it will pull air through the grip, push it through the bottom intake and vent out the side....this is how they managed to keep weather sealing for the actual body but also offer an active cooling option. I feel like there's a huge difference between fans that are part of the camera's body (where it gets hottest) and fans that are attached externally to a camera's body. I'm not saying that it won't help, just that it seems inefficient compared to putting active cooling right into the body itself. Certainly for the price I don't see why they couldn't, as I refuse to believe that the extra parts needed would significantly raise manufacturing costs. Panasonic did it for a camera that is half the cost, afterall. Emanuel 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kye Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 27 minutes ago, newfoundmass said: I feel like there's a huge difference between fans that are part of the camera's body (where it gets hottest) and fans that are attached externally to a camera's body. I'm not saying that it won't help, just that it seems inefficient compared to putting active cooling right into the body itself. Certainly for the price I don't see why they couldn't, as I refuse to believe that the extra parts needed would significantly raise manufacturing costs. Panasonic did it for a camera that is half the cost, afterall. BMMCC has a fan and it was $995 only a few years ago when it went EOL. Plus it is like 30% of the size. The BM Micro Studio Camera 4K G2 is a current model, which is also $995, and tiny by comparison. It has been used for 24 hour races in ridiculous conditions and performed flawlessly. No excuses for overheating, except for significant/extreme weather and dust sealing requirements. Emanuel 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emanuel Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 3 hours ago, jpfilmz said: It's image for sure has a great look to it. I was thinking about picking up a Red Komodo but wanted to seen that the R5 MK2 was about and so far it looks great. I dunno... Not too much orange and teal there for something apparently fresh and new? Davide DB 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emanuel Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 3 hours ago, Andrew Reid said: That price difference is absolutely nuts. These guys are nuts! ...when we can have access to competent cinema cameras for a grand and a half today. For purchase not rentals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seanzzxx Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 It's insane that the sub 2k S5 ii has a built in fan and this doesn't. Emanuel and zlfan 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSMW Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 5 minutes ago, seanzzxx said: It's insane that the sub 2k S5 ii has a built in fan and this doesn't Unless you absolutely need full frame 4k 60p, the S5ii is a video powerhouse and bargain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davide DB Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 Overheating has already been discussed to exhaustion, and there are two things: Panasonic is wasting time and resources on something that Canon and Sony don't give a damn about at all (in this market range). Or Panasonic is light years ahead when it comes to thermal management. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emanuel Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 6 minutes ago, Davide DB said: Overheating has already been discussed to exhaustion, and there are two things: Panasonic is wasting time and resources on something that Canon and Sony don't give a damn about at all (in this market range). Or Panasonic is light years ahead when it comes to thermal management. Not exactly. As far as people report, no overheating issues straight from F3/FX30 cine line... Neither R5C. So, to me it's even much more critical the Z8 case study, isn't it? ; ) Even though I guess they are not in the mood for hybrid devices despite the success of FX30 (S35 + APS-C two in a single one) over F3 for that purpose. :- ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emanuel Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 *FX3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Calabros Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 Seems Canon use Clog for temperature too lol. 8k60p runs 6x times hotter than 8k30p, not 2x: 120 minutes vs. 20 minutes. Andrew talks about sensor fabs and cmos technology, but what about processor? Can't they order a more efficient one like everybody else do? I don't expect 3nm chip, but come on.. you're Canon, you have the cash, more than any other camera maker. Buy something new. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gt3rs Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 8 hours ago, Andrew Reid said: That price difference is absolutely nuts. The R5 II is objectively worse than a Z8... Not by a lot, but in terms of the overall technology under the hood, the fact it needs a fan, the lack of ProRes and the worse RAW codec, and also the worse lens mount which cannot accept adapters to Sony E-mount - and I am not sure there is a autofocusing Leica M adapter either? Or Super 16mm c-mount? So that for me, is what killed the EOS R3 vs Nikon Z9 and it is same with the new models. Overheating times don't make for great reading either: https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canon-eos-r5-ii-initial-review/2 Seems like just the original R5 with a re-worked fan from the EOS R5C in terms of thermals of the processor and sensor. And what's up with the R1 - for something that has cooked for 3 and a half years longer than a Sony a1, you'd think it would move the bar a lot higher - instead it is a reheated 1D X Mark III! That for me is a bit of a shocker. I was expecting something completely new and something which really put the relatively old-ish R3 and Z9 in the shade. I guess Canon decided that sports photographers didn't want the extra file sizes of 50MP+, so they played it relatively conservatively? On RAW codec... Canon RAW is natively supported in Premiere Pro and Davinci Resolve, Nikon only in Resolve and in regards of bit rate: 8k 60p Canon 2600 Mbits, Nikon 3470 Mbits.... Not sure what is worst in Canon RAW vs Nikon I would say is the inverse. I agree on the R1 is really a meh release.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davide DB Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 23 minutes ago, Emanuel said: Not exactly. As far as people report, no overheating issues straight from F3/FX30 cine line... Neither R5C. So, to me it's even much more critical the Z8 case study, isn't it? ; ) Even though I guess they are not in the mood for hybrid devices despite the success of FX30 (S35 + APS-C two in a single one) over F3 for that purpose. :- ) I wrote "in this market range". Cinema line is another story for both Canon and Sony. R5 want to be the hero of the two worlds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gt3rs Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 In Switzerland R5 launch price 4490 CHF R5 II launch price 4190 CHF If you take the inflation is even cheaper. It is pure economics, not many new shooters buy a Z8 or R5, mostly have already lenses and camera of one system, as you cannot produce enough to meet initial demand you start with a higher price to cash in on early adopters. Is not that difficult to understand. Two examples: Canon R3 launch price 5979 CHF!!! After 1 year: 4990 CHF, now 3990 CHF. Nikon Z8 launch price 4598 CHF, After 1 year 3099 CHF !!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlfan Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 1 hour ago, seanzzxx said: It's insane that the sub 2k S5 ii has a built in fan and this doesn't. s series and gh7 are really leading the Japanese companies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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