ntblowz Posted July 20 Share Posted July 20 If I still had R5 I would be definitely be upgrading to R5II cause it fixed the 2 major issue for me, 30min record limit and clog2! The full size HDMI is a nice suprise though. But with the release of Sigma 18-50, it stirr up things, my friend already decide to get R7 and 18-50 instead of getting R5II, he reckon he can get away with this combo most of the time, only night time he might need R5C.. I also been thinking too lol, R5C on tripod and R7 with 18-50 and 1.8 and later 1.4 lens should be able to do majority of the job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herein2020 Posted July 20 Share Posted July 20 1 hour ago, ntblowz said: If I still had R5 I would be definitely be upgrading to R5II cause it fixed the 2 major issue for me, 30min record limit and clog2! The full size HDMI is a nice suprise though. But with the release of Sigma 18-50, it stirr up things, my friend already decide to get R7 and 18-50 instead of getting R5II, he reckon he can get away with this combo most of the time, only night time he might need R5C.. I also been thinking too lol, R5C on tripod and R7 with 18-50 and 1.8 and later 1.4 lens should be able to do majority of the job. Actually, the Sigma EF APS-C 18-35 F1.8 lives on my R7. I only use EF lenses on my R7 for one important reason......because I can use the Meike vND RF to EF adapter with them. It turns the R7 into the perfect video camera. I would lose that with RF lenses. Using EF lenses is great as well because they are so cheap but optically excellent, so if you need something "new" you will save a lot of money vs RF. Yes the RF lenses are sharper but with video that's not necessarily a good thing. Really the only two lenses I use on my R7 for everything is the EF 24-105 F4 for daylight projects and the Sigma EF 18-35 F1.8 for low light projects. If I get the R5 II I will probably keep the same setup...EF lenses only with vND for video. Canon never seems to confirm that the R5 has dual native ISO (800 and 3200) but if the R5II does have dual native ISO then 3200 will mean I can use slower lenses like the 24-70 F2.8 at night which would replace the Sigma 18-35. I also need to research the crop modes some more; I will be interested to see what kind of quality the crop modes provide. If they are equivalent or better than the R7 then I can still use my Sigma 18-35 on the R5II. I am still not a fan of the R5C, no IBIS is the main deal breaker because I shoot almost exclusively handheld, also the R5C has lower DR than the R5II as evidenced by the omission of CLOG2, and the whole switching entire OS to go from photo to video was never appealing to me either. ntblowz, Superka, Emanuel and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ac6000cw Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 DPReview has published some R5 ii spec clarifications today (my bold): Quote Fact check The complexity of the EOS R5 II and its broad feature set, along with some inconsistent specs from Canon have led to some confusion. We checked directly with Canon US's technical expert on the camera to clear up some of the misunderstandings we've seen. The EOS R5 II does not have the cross-type autofocus offered by the EOS R1. There are Canon spec sheets that say it does, but these are not correct. The R5 II uses the same left/right pairs of photodiodes to give sensitivity to vertical edges as the original R5. The EOS R5 II does not use 14-bit readout for its video. Like almost every camera on the market it drops the sensor readout to 12-bit mode to speed up the readout and lower the rolling shutter time (it's typically around twice as fast). You can still get significantly more than 12 stops of DR, despite this, particularly in the 4K Fine modes, where multiple pixels are being combined. It does not have built-in GPS. Some of the spec sheets we've seen made this appear ambiguous but GPS is handled either via a smartphone app or by using an external GPS accessory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herein2020 Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 30 minutes ago, ac6000cw said: DPReview has published some R5 ii spec clarifications today (my bold): So RAW is 12bit and compressed is 10bit. Canon did seem pretty vague about if 14bit was just photos or included video. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlfan Posted July 24 Share Posted July 24 rebel moon seems very organic and cinematic although by red 8k cameras. seems 8k is different depending on different cameras. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herein2020 Posted July 24 Share Posted July 24 4 hours ago, zlfan said: rebel moon seems very organic and cinematic although by red 8k cameras. seems 8k is different depending on different cameras. Rebel moon was also shot with 5 and 6 figure lenses, had a $166 million budget, and was graded by professional Hollywood colorists......the R5II's footage would be just as different under the same situation. Not saying different cameras don't look different and obviously a Red 8K camera is built for a very different target customer, but just trying to figure out your point here. Juank and zlfan 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSMW Posted July 24 Share Posted July 24 And *cough* a lot of CGI! eatstoomuchjam, herein2020 and Ninpo33 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eatstoomuchjam Posted July 24 Share Posted July 24 Capture resolution is only a single factor of the perceived sharpness/softness of the final image. Take that Black Magic camera with a 12k full frame sensor that was announced a few months ago. Put on an f/1 Noctilux and shoot wide open. I can all but promise you won't be complaining about too much sharpness throughout the image. 😃 On top of that, Red's image (at least in raw, I haven't done much ProRes to check it) is generally a bit less sharpened than you'll find on many mirrorless cameras if used with the same lens. I'd expect that it's mostly the OLPF, but it's also difficult to know what kind of filters are applied by the ISP on mirrorless cameras, even for what is presented as "raw" video. zlfan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Andrew Reid Posted July 25 Administrators Share Posted July 25 RED have multiple different OLPF, for example the softer Skintone filter. But at the end of the day it doesn't matter, as the best filter is the lens. zlfan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herein2020 Posted July 25 Share Posted July 25 From the user manual, these are the two most interesting codec tables to me. 8K in Standard LGOP might actually be usable especially for short b roll clips. I never understood why the R5 only offered RAW for 8K, probably due to overheating. Another interesting combination is 4K SRAW at 60FPS. My understanding is that SRAW doesn't use line skipping so in theory the R5II does support some form of down sampled 4K60FPS if you shoot in SRAW. 4K Light SRAW at 60FPS looks like it might be usable for short b roll clips. Also, I have figured out where the cripple hammer is hiding.....for most of these more interesting codecs you will need to use the single CFE card which means you will not have multi-card redundancy for most of your footage if you shoot in these modes. Out of curiosity, I checked the Nikon Z8 and it also only has a single CFE slot but it is also $500 cheaper. Considering how hot CFE cards get in the R series, relying on a single card is even more concerning to me. According to the user manual, it looks like you don't get dual card redundancy until you drop down to 4K30FPS XF-HEVC 10bit 422 LGOP. For some reason the tables don't show if 60FPS can also be written to the SD card but I assume so. One of my favorite features of the C70 (right after the internal ND filters) is being able to write Cinema Raw LT at 4K30FPS to dual V30 1TB SD cards. User Manual: https://cam.start.canon/en/C017/manual/c017.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eatstoomuchjam Posted July 25 Share Posted July 25 1 hour ago, Andrew Reid said: RED have multiple different OLPF, for example the softer Skintone filter. That was true in the past. DSMC3 doesn't seem to have swappable OLPF anymore. I'm guessing that most people didn't change them often or at all. 1 hour ago, Andrew Reid said: But at the end of the day it doesn't matter, as the best filter is the lens. Accurate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ac6000cw Posted July 25 Share Posted July 25 1 hour ago, herein2020 said: Also, I have figured out where the cripple hammer is hiding.....for most of these more interesting codecs you will need to use the single CFE card which means you will not have multi-card redundancy for most of your footage if you shoot in these modes. Out of curiosity, I checked the Nikon Z8 and it also only has a single CFE slot but it is also $500 cheaper. Considering how hot CFE cards get in the R series, relying on a single card is even more concerning to me. According to the user manual, it looks like you don't get dual card redundancy until you drop down to 4K30FPS XF-HEVC 10bit 422 LGOP. For some reason the tables don't show if 60FPS can also be written to the SD card but I assume so. I suspect the heat generated when writing data to the cards at those high rates is a major reason why only one card is supported. Also the energy that is heating the cards is coming from the battery, which will cause that to get hotter - and of course the cards and battery are very close to each other, plus it's the part of the camera that is designed to be held in your right hand, so can't be allowed to get too hot. 1 hour ago, herein2020 said: One of my favorite features of the C70 (right after the internal ND filters) is being able to write Cinema Raw LT at 4K30FPS to dual V30 1TB SD cards. It's not really a fair/sensible comparison - the C70 is very much larger (with the battery on the outside as well), twice the weight and has integrated fan cooling: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herein2020 Posted July 25 Share Posted July 25 1 hour ago, ac6000cw said: I suspect the heat generated when writing data to the cards at those high rates is a major reason why only one card is supported. Also the energy that is heating the cards is coming from the battery, which will cause that to get hotter - and of course the cards and battery are very close to each other, plus it's the part of the camera that is designed to be held in your right hand, so can't be allowed to get too hot. I agree, its probably a heat problem, I really didn't think in 2024 that cameras overheating when using them for what they were intended to be used for would be this big of a problem, I wonder if an internal NVME drive would fix all of these heat problems. The best example for comparing body sizes between the R5II and a camera with dual CFE slots would be the R1. Of course, the R1 has a bigger body, different battery (I think), and a lower resolution sensor, but it is a good example of possibly what the minimum specs need to be to support the heat generated by two CFE cards at least for Canon. 1 hour ago, ac6000cw said: It's not really a fair/sensible comparison - the C70 is very much larger (with the battery on the outside as well), twice the weight and has integrated fan cooling: My point with the C70 was that Canon was able to create a flavor of a raw codec that was a low enough bitrate to support 4K30FPS writing to relatively slow V30 SD cards. No other camera in their product line can write any flavor of RAW to a V30 SD card that I am aware of. If they had included that same codec in the R5II (Cinema Raw LT), then we would have a raw option that could write to both card slots. In fact, with that codec, it might even be possible to write 4K60FPS to V60 or V90 SD cards which would provide a redundant card slot option up to 4K60FPS raw. I doubt we will see Cinema Raw LT in the R5II since it seems like they have already thrown everything possible into it, but without it, I would never feel comfortable shooting important projects over 4K LongGOP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gt3rs Posted July 25 Share Posted July 25 7 hours ago, herein2020 said: From the user manual, these are the two most interesting codec tables to me. 8K in Standard LGOP might actually be usable especially for short b roll clips. I never understood why the R5 only offered RAW for 8K, probably due to overheating. R5 offers 10 and 8 bit 8k since day one (h265 and h264) ALL-I, IPB and IPB Light not only RAW ntblowz 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntblowz Posted July 25 Share Posted July 25 One thing R5II is missing is the IBP light codec... I really like it for long hour recording, save a lot of space and don't need fast cars at all for 4k60p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herein2020 Posted July 25 Share Posted July 25 1 hour ago, gt3rs said: R5 offers 10 and 8 bit 8k since day one (h265 and h264) ALL-I, IPB and IPB Light not only RAW I never even noticed that, I read somewhere early in the launch of the R5 that it was RAW only and never confirmed for myself. 44 minutes ago, ntblowz said: One thing R5II is missing is the IBP light codec... I really like it for long hour recording, save a lot of space and don't need fast cars at all for 4k60p That is a good point, the lowest 4K data rate that the R5 offers is 60Mbps, the lowest for the R5II is 100Mbps. I read somewhere that Canon decided to stop using proprietary codecs and standardize on what everyone else is using. It will be interesting to see if Standard LGOP is better or worse than IPB Light. It could be harder to edit, lower quality, or both. The C70 uses XF-AVC LongGOP and I haven't had any performance problems editing the footage from it. Canon R5 - 4K (29.97p/25.00p/24.00p/23.98p) IPB (Light): Approx. 60 Mbps Canon R5II Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ac6000cw Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 A list of the R5 ii video specs (copied and re-formatted) from the Canon UK website: Quote Movie Type ========== RAW/SRAW Video : 8K DCI(17:9) / 4K DCI(17:9) (note 11) MP4 Video : 8K DCI/UHD (17:9/16:9) 4K DCI/UHD (17:9/16:9), 2K/Full HD (17:9/16:9) 8K/4K/2K/Full HD : XF-HEVC S/H.265, Audio: Linear PCM / AAC 4K/2K/Full HD : MPEG-4 AVC S/H.264, Audio: Linear PCM / AAC 8K RAW 4K RAW : 12bit CRM Audio: Linear PCM / AAC 8K/4K/FullHD Time-lapse movie mode (note 11): Recording is possible only when using an CFexpress card. Movie Size ========== RAW (Light) (17:9) 8192 x 4320 (59.94, 50, 29.97, 25, 24, 23.98 fps) RAW (Standard) (17:9) 8192 x 4320 (29.97, 25, 24, 23.98 fps) SRAW (Standard, Light) (17:9) 4096 x 2160 (59.94, 50, 29.97, 25, 24, 23.98 fps) 8K DCI (17:9) 8192 x 4320 (29.97, 25, 24, 23.98 fps) 2-3 type of intra or Long GOP 8K UHD (16:9) 7680 x 4320 (29.97, 25, 23.98 fps) 2-3 type of intra or Long GOP (note 12) 4K DCI (17:9) 4096 x 2160 (119.9, 100, 59.94, 50, 29.97, 25, 24, 23.98 fps) 3 type of intra or Long GOP 4K UHD (16:9) 3840 x 2160 (119.9, 100, 59.94, 50, 29.97, 25, 23.98 fps) 3 type of intra or Long GOP 2K DCI (17:9) 2048 x 1080 (239.76, 200, 119.9, 100, 59.94, 50, 29.97, 25, 24, 23.98 fps) Intra frame or Long GOP Full HD (16:9) 1920 x 1080 (239.76, 200, 119.9, 100, 59.94, 50, 29.97, 25, 23.98 fps) Intra frame or Long GOP HDR movie recording at up to 59.94p in Normal modes of 4K DCI/UHD, 2K DCI/UHD, Full HD HDR movie recording at up to 29.97p in Fine modes of 4K DCI/UHD, 2K DCI/UHD, Full HD (note 13) (note 12): 8K UHD 4K UHD and Full HD are 94% horizontal coverage of the image area, RAW, SRAW, 8K DCI, 4K DCI and 2K DCI are 100%, DCI movie cropping mode is 62.1% UHD/HD movie cropping mode is 58.1% of the horizonal area. (note 13): HDR movie mode is not available when recording RAW movies. If the cameras internal temperature becomes too high the maximum recording time will be reduced Bitrate / Mbps: =============== RAW: ---- 8K RAW Standard (29.97p/25.00p/24.00p/23.98p): Approx. 2600 Mbps 8K RAW Light (59.94p/50.00p) : Approx. 2600 Mbps 8K RAW Light (29.97p) : Approx. 1670 Mbps 8K RAW Light (25p) : Approx. 1400 Mbps 8K RAW Light (24.00p/23.98p) : Approx. 1340 Mbps 4K SRAW Standard (59.94p) : Approx. 1860 Mbps 4K SRAW Standard (50p) : Approx. 1550 Mbps 4K SRAW Standard (29.97p) : Approx. 930 Mbps 4K SRAW Standard (25.00p/24.00p/23.98p) : Approx. 780 Mbps 4K SRAW Light (59.94p) : Approx. 840 Mbps 4K SRAW Light (50p) : Approx. 700 Mbps 4K SRAW Light (29.97p) : Approx. 420 Mbps 4K SRAW Light (25.00p/24.00p/23.98p) : Approx. 350 Mbps MP4 8K DCI/UHD Normal: ---------------------- XF-HEVC S YCC422 10bit High Quality Intra 24p / 23.98p : Approx. 1920 Mbps Standard Intra 25p : Approx. 1500 Mbps Light Intra 25p : Approx. 1000 Mbps Standard LGOP 25p : Approx. 540 Mbps XF-HEVC S YCC420 10bit Standard LGOP 29.97p/25.00p/24.00p/23.98p : Approx. 400 Mbps MP4 4K DCI/UHD Fine/Normal (Oversampled from 8K/Not oversampled): ----------------------------------------------------------------- XF-HEVC S YCC422 10bit Standard LGOP 29.97p/25.00p/24.00p/23.98p : Approx. 135 Mbps XF-HEVC / XF-AVC S S YCC420 10bit / 8bit Standard LGOP 29.97p/25.00p/24.00p/23.98p : Approx. 100 Mbps XF-AVC S YCC422 10bit High Quality Intra 25p : Approx. 500 Mbps Standard Intra 25p : Approx. 375 Mbps Light Intra 25p : Approx. 250 Mbps Standard LGOP 29.97p/25.00p/24.00p/23.98p : Approx. 150 Mbps MP4 4K DCI/UHD Normal (Not oversampled): ---------------------------------------- XF-HEVC S YCC422 10bit Standard LGOP 119.9p / 100p : Approx. 450 Mbps Standard LGOP 59.94p/50.00p : Approx. 225 Mbps XF-HEVC / XF-AVC S YCC420 10bit / 8bit Standard LGOP 119.9p / 100p : Approx. 300 Mbps Standard LGOP 59.94p/50.00p : Approx. 150 Mbps XF-AVC S YCC422 10bit High Quality Intra 50p : Approx. 1000 Mbps Standard Intra 100p : Approx. 1500 Mbps Standard Intra 50p : Approx. 750 Mbps Light Intra 100p : Approx. 1000 Mbps Light Intra 50p : Approx. 500 Mbps Standard LGOP 100p : Approx. 500 Mbps Standard LGOP 50p : Approx. 250 Mbps MP4 2K DCI / FullHD Fine / Normal (Oversampled from 4K / Not oversampled): -------------------------------------------------------------------------- XF-HEVC S YCC422 10bit Standard LGOP 59.94p/50.00p/29.97p/25.00p/24.00p/23.98p : Approx. 50 Mbps XF-HEVC / XF-AVC S S YCC420 10bit / 8bit Standard LGOP 59.94p/50.00p/29.97p/25.00p/24.00p/23.98p : Approx. 35 Mbps XF-AVC S YCC422 10bit Standard Intra 25p/50p : Approx. 125/250 Mbps Standard LGOP 59.94p/50.00p/29.97p/25.00p/24.00p/23.98p : Approx. 50 Mbps MP4 2K DCI/UHD Normal (Not oversampled): ---------------------------------------- XF-HEVC S YCC422 10bit Standard LGOP 239.76p / 200p : Approx. 200 Mbps 119.88p / 100p : Approx. 100 Mbps XF-HEVC / XF-AVC S S YCC420 10bit / 8bit Standard LGOP 239.76p / 200p : Approx. 140 Mbps 119.88p / 100p : Approx. 70 Mbps XF-AVC S YCC422 10bit Standard Intra 200p : Approx. 1000 Mbps Standard Intra 100p : Approx. 500 Mbps Standard LGOP 200p : Approx. 200 Mbps Standard LGOP 100p : Approx. 100 Mbps Proxy movie (2K-DCI Normal / Full HD Normal) XF-HEVC S YCC420 10bit / XF-AVC S YCC420 8bit Standard LGOP 59.94p/50p/29.97p/25p/24p/23.98p : Approx. 16 Mbps XF-HEVC S YCC420 10bit / XF-AVC S YCC420 8bit Light LGOP 59.94p/50p/29.97p/25p/24p/23.98p : Approx. 9 Mbps ...and yes, the only sub-100 Mbps rates are for 2K DCI and FHD. Possibly best quality 50 Mbps rate is oversampled-from-4K 'Fine' 'XF-HEVC S YCC422 10bit Standard LGOP' at 59.94p/50.00p/29.97p/25.00p/24.00p/23.98p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davide DB Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 In the meantime dpreview published the spec detail clarification for video: https://m.dpreview.com/articles/9830877104/canon-eos-r5-ii-for-video-what-you-need-to-know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davide DB Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 Disclaimer: I'm sure this is a bombastic camera but the article is way below the minimum journalism standard. It is really shameful how they distort reality or omit details that make a difference. How disgusting. Quote The R5 II can also experience thermal issues at its most demanding resolutions and frame rates, but Canon has introduced a new accessory grip with a built-in cooling fan, the CF-R20EP, to help mitigate this issue. It joins manufacturers like Panasonic and Fujifilm that have provided accessory cooling fans for video-focused mirrorless cameras. And Quote The original EOS R5 came to be known as a capable video camera, able to deliver stunning video quality, once the initial concern about overheating had cooled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Andrew Reid Posted July 27 Administrators Share Posted July 27 DPR are in the business of writing advertising copy now and had been going in that direction for a long, long time. Rarely do they have a bad word to say about anything. Davide DB and Juank 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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