Matching NX1 with Red Dragon - Anyone interested in the results?

[Endfallow Media]

The title is sounds a little more provocative that it should.  What it boils down to is that I decided to pick up an NX1 and couple Rokinon DS lenses, and we're curious how usable the NX1 is as a 4k B cam for the Dragon.  Now I'm not one for test videos, never made one and would rather not, but I am willing to post my experiences and a little footage if they community would be interested in the results.  I looked around a bit and didn't see anyone else who'd posted the same info, so if you're interested, go ahead and chime in, and I'll be sure and update the thread. If it only ends up only being a person or two interested, I'm happy to keep it off of the forum and just email individual parties.  Lemme know.

[Ed_David]

I'm curious to see a test chart with resolution and noise levels at 800 ASA and skin tone comparisons.  I'd pay you.

[Sekhar]

If you have the results, go ahead and post. This is EOSHD, and I'm sure quite a few here would be interested.

[John D]

I'm very interested as well.  Hope you will post for all.  Thanks!

[Endfallow Media]

I'm curious to see a test chart with resolution and noise levels at 800 ASA and skin tone comparisons.  I'd pay you.

Formal tests, charts and the like, are exactly the kind of vids I tend to avoid, as I honestly don't really use them and they take time to shoot & edit that I'd rather put elsewhere.  Personally, I'm more the proponent of real world tests, which is which I was offering (Please excuse me for not being more exacting). That said since there is some interest there, I'll certainly talk to my partner and if we're able to accommodate your request for for a formal review, i.e. charts and noise levels, we certainly will.

[Emanuel]

Very well, where are they? Now you've mentioned, just waitin' for...

 

E. :-)

[dbp]

I'd love to see them. I like all styles of tests too, the really controlled chart type ones and the off the cuff general footage ones. Whatever you got, always neat to see. 

[Hans Punk]

 

I've personally found the best way to test a cameras ability to cut with other model types is as follows:

Human subject, well lit, talking or turning towards/away from key light shot simultaneously on A and B camera. Place B camera where it would be placed for coverage - i.e not right next to A camera.

conform images to match as much in the grade as possible.

cut simultaneously shot footage into a sequence that approximates what an editing pace would be for a dialogue scene.

switch lighting conditions to test image latitude and repeat process. Ideally switching cameras to alternating angles.

 

This is always what it boils down to IMHO, not comparing apples to oranges with chart test or ISO noise stress tests.

The human face is the best camera test chart known to man, especially when lit in dynamic ways.

its about how feasible it is to get a matched pair (or close enough) out of A&B cameras in the grade.

[Endfallow Media]

 

I've personally found the best way to test a cameras ability to cut with other model types is as follows:

Human subject, well lit, talking or turning towards/away from key light shot simultaneously on A and B camera. Place B camera where it would be placed for coverage - i.e not right next to A camera.

conform images to match as much in the grade as possible.

cut simultaneously shot footage into a sequence that approximates what an editing pace would be for a dialogue scene.

switch lighting conditions to test image latitude and repeat process. Ideally switching cameras to alternating angles.

 

This is always what it boils down to IMHO, not comparing apples to oranges with chart test or ISO noise stress tests.

The human face is the best camera test chart known to man, especially when lit in dynamic ways.

its about how feasible it is to get a matched pair (or close enough) out of A&B cameras in the grade.

Def more along the lines of what I was thinking. 

Very well, where are they? Now you've mentioned, just waitin' for...

 

E. :-)

The cam and lenses should be in this week, and we'll prob do a quick shoot with the NX1 as a b-cam this weekend. I'll try and get something up shortly after.

[Endfallow Media]

I know @Andrew mentioned something about the NX1 having a Dragon like sensor (6.5k) readout, and I'm interested how this will translate in a real world test. Also curious seeing how @Mattias Burling's (I think that is who recomended it) process of up-ressing the NX1's slowmo to 4k will look against the Dragons native high-frame rate 4k and 6K.

As a note, I've never shot with the NX1, so if any of you with experience want to recommend any ideal settings and help shorten the learning curve (maybe a different thread?), it'd be appreciated.

[Ed_David]

real world tests are nice and important but there is a reason the best DOPs shoot test charts and color charts with models in the frame - websites like CML do this to test dynamic range and noise levels.

but yes you can also shoot a landscape to show how it resolves detail and put some humans in the frame - as long as you shoot with the same lens and that's useful.

 

[Geoff CB]

I know @Andrew mentioned something about the NX1 having a Dragon like sensor (6.5k) readout, and I'm interested how this will translate in a real world test. Also curious seeing how @Mattias Burling's (I think that is who recomended it) process of up-ressing the NX1's slowmo to 4k will look against the Dragons native high-frame rate 4k and 6K.

As a note, I've never shot with the NX1, so if any of you with experience want to recommend any ideal settings and help shorten the learning curve (maybe a different thread?), it'd be appreciated.

Gamma DR

-4 Contrast

+10 Black Level

-10 Sharpness

Very interested to see your results! 

[Mattias Burling]

I know @Andrew mentioned something about the NX1 having a Dragon like sensor (6.5k) readout, and I'm interested how this will translate in a real world test. Also curious seeing how @Mattias Burling's (I think that is who recomended it) process of up-ressing the NX1's slowmo to 4k will look against the Dragons native high-frame rate 4k and 6K.

As a note, I've never shot with the NX1, so if any of you with experience want to recommend any ideal settings and help shorten the learning curve (maybe a different thread?), it'd be appreciated.

​Don't know if I recommend it but my test gave me enough confidence to use it if slowmo is very important for a project/client, the clip isn't to long and meant for web publishing.

Here's the test,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mz6e6zZi8Z8

 

 

[Mattias Burling]

 

Double post. 

[ricardo_sousa11]

Id be very interested in seeing how it copes against the Red Dragon.

[Andrew Reid]

How did the shoot go? Interested to see.

[Endfallow Media]

​Don't know if I recommend it but my test gave me enough confidence to use it if slowmo is very important for a project/client, the clip isn't to long and meant for web publishing.

Here's the test,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mz6e6zZi8Z8

 

 

Of course. Excuse me if I misrepresented you. Your test piqued my interest and I've been eager to try it out myself. Most of my clients projects are for web one way or another, so I may be an ideal candidate if the test yields favorable results.

How did the shoot go? Interested to see.

In reviewing my initial post, particularly the wording of the title, I see how I led some astray. We won't be shooting until this coming weekend (Sat/one week from now), and I will post my thoughts and the examples shortly after. Sorry for the confusion.

Gamma DR

-4 Contrast

+10 Black Level

-10 Sharpness

Very interested to see your results! 

Awesome. Thx for the recommendation, Geoff. Is the intention for these settings to provide a file that stands up better to CC/grading, or is it a "better" image out of cam thought. Just curious of how you use it.

[Mattias Burling]

Looking forward to the results, thanks for keeping us posted. 

[Endfallow Media]

real world tests are nice and important but there is a reason the best DOPs shoot test charts and color charts with models in the frame - websites like CML do this to test dynamic range and noise levels.

but yes you can also shoot a landscape to show how it resolves detail and put some humans in the frame - as long as you shoot with the same lens and that's useful.

 

I certainly see where you're coming from, and I don't think I disagree, but I'm simply just not of that caliber or mindset. I run a small studio, and outside of client work and the occational passion project, I'd rather just spend my time with my family and friends. I know that's prob lame, but I'm simple that way. Now I've definitely watched my share of technical tests, but I have to admit, I don't get a lot of practical use out of them. I'm not certain what CML is, please excuse my ignorance, but I imagine if they're doing formal tests, are doing many of them, there evironments are very controlled and there methods are very procedural, well tested and exacting. That's sounds like a full time job, and just can't swing it.

As for the lenses, agreed. Will be def be using the same lenses on each body. At the moment all but the new 14mm & 35mm are Canon glass, but I'm pretty sure I can wrangle some manual Nikon or vintage glass, as well.

[Geoff CB]

I find those setting the best balance between good skin tones right out of the camera and edit-ability. If you want a flatter image put the contrast at -5 and black level at +15. Don't drop the contrast any further though because the color banding and weird color gradients start appearing if you push it.