First Sony A7R II user experiences - global shutter and native ISO 800?

[sudopera]

http://newcameranews.com/2015/04/01/shocking-nikon-canon-to-end-camera-development/

[DBounce]

Wouldn't mind Olympus being a serious contended.

[Jimmy]

Someone needs to add internal 10 bit, then we are cooking on gas. My bet is on GH5

[eleison]

​And these guys are on a 2 year delay... I think 2015 marks the tolling of the bell.

​Dead man walking.. Canon just doesn't know it yet.  Unless canon do a complete 180, but than they would have to admit their strategy was a complete failure which is hard to do (assuming they EVEN have the "tech" to compete).  Not only that, they will have to restructure their development cycle (2-3 year cycles are unacceptable with the current level of competition).  All uphill battles that big companies find hard or impossible to accomplish.

It takes time to change the course of a big ship.  Because of this, I wouldn't expect anything innovative from Canon for the next couple of years assuming they actually start trying to compete instead of keeping their head in the sand. Mark my words, the next 5D will be a dud compared to the competition.  They will have to change course NOW though.  Waiting until the sales of their rebel camera tank would be disastrous.  Canon should use the sales of their rebels/lower dslrs to power though the next couple of years in order to change the company structure.  Start innovating.  Lucky for canon, apparently people are still buying these lower end cameras.  This is canon's only life line.  Lenses are important -- but with adapters and new native lenses in other formats, it's not as important as people make it out to be.  Besides, not everyone needs super fast focusing.

 

 

[theSUBVERSIVE]

The elephant in the room with these articles that lead to the inevitable Canon monologue.... Why not bash Nikon? at least we know why Canon do the things they do, and at least they do release things like the 1DC (Camera of the year!). Sometimes I think they are pressured by Sony to stay a step behind.

Anyways.... A7R II looks damn cool, hoping the 5 axis stabilisation is good, that would be the cherry.

​There was plenty of bashing about Nikon, even an open letter when they launched the Nikon Df - although I think a bit uncalled for, at least not because of the Df. Plus, despite not being their focus, Nikon has actually becoming better and their recent cameras are leaps beyond they were before. The D750 seems to be pretty good and the D5000, D3000 family also improved. Which is not something Canon is doing, improving, much less innovating like Sony, Samsung and Panasonic. So don't take this and morph it into some sort of one-sided thing or biased, Nikon had plenty of bash before and Canon is deservedly bashed still.

[Caleb Genheimer]

Let's not forget that 35mm film cameras have rolling shutter. It is minimal, yes, but rolling nonetheless. Only with the advent of digital cinema has true global shutter become possible. 

I like the specs to be sure, but after using the NX1 on several shoots, autofocus has become a very important feature. The Samsung is so good at holding focus that I just balance it on my Ronin as-is and start shooting. So unless Sony's AF is the same, I'll be sticking with Sammy for the forseeable future. True, h.265 is a minor hassle currently, but soon enough people will be calling h.264 "old hat".

[Jimmy]

​There was plenty of bashing about Nikon, even an open letter when they launched the Nikon Df - although I think a bit uncalled for, at least not because of the Df. Plus, despite not being their focus, Nikon has actually becoming better and their recent cameras are leaps beyond they were before. The D750 seems to be pretty good and the D5000, D3000 family also improved. Which is not something Canon is doing, improving, much less innovating like Sony, Samsung and Panasonic. So don't take this and morph it into some sort of one-sided thing or biased, Nikon had plenty of bash before and Canon is deservedly bashed still.

Maybe on the forum... Not on the blog itself... Every other post is half dedicated to Canon's failings

[wolf33d]

It's funny, because I have posted on the most read french forum about the A7 R II saying that it looks awesome and that Canon 5DIII is outdated and I have been bashed like crazy, people saying 5DIII is not outdated at all and their arguments : auto focus, optical viewfinder, ergonomics, build quality, battery life, pro features (double card,...) and that if you look pro images on 500px.com they look same if not better than A7R image (given the poor 5D dynamic range). 

So some people here, before saying Canon are dead should be aware of the average opinion of the people. You (us) here represent a minority. 
Consumers prefer Canon cause they think it's the best brand, Pros prefer Canon because they think it's more reliable (built quality, batteries, ... ..) 

Pro summers doing film and wanting a normal camera body... We represent 1% of the market if not less. That's why Canon does not care. 

Still I hope they put 4K in 5D4, and better DR. Even though, as videographers we should stay with Sony, they make cameras for us, Canon does not intend to. 

[labirdman]

Surely they've not moved to a native ISO of 800, unless you're talking about something specific to video, somehow.

If they did that, wouldn't it flatten the 50-800 iso dynamic curve, making the 14+ stops of DR we see from the D800/810, A7R, etc, impossible?

And everything I've seen indicates we're still stuck with Sony lossy RAW and its limitations, although there is a guy on the I-R forums saying the head of Sony's mirrorless development efforts are aware of the request for lossless, and that it could be offered with a firmware update.  Grain of salt, of course.

[Andrew Reid]

Surely they've not moved to a native ISO of 800, unless you're talking about something specific to video, somehow.

​Yes specific to video (S-LOG 2).

[Andrew Reid]

Maybe on the forum... Not on the blog itself... Every other post is half dedicated to Canon's failings

Well every other Jimmy post is nonsense and I don't complain!

[labirdman]

Strangely enough, the reports of excellent A7RII autofocus with Canon lenses could be Canon's saving grace.  

If that excellence finds its way into other Sony mirrorless cams, which seems inevitable, Canon can continue to sell their glass (which let's admit is their great strength, their zooms, TSEs, and long primes are just fantastic) to Sony shooters.  These Sony shooters keep a foot in both worlds, and when Canon, as they inevitably will, once again offer a competitive sensor (it might take years!), the Sony shooters could switch back.  In essence, you shoot Canon glass, and float between whichever company offers the body you like best.

Nikon enjoys no similar advantage. They are fortunate to be able to offer Sony exmor sensors in their cameras today, but we don't know the nature of the agreement with Sony (does it expire?)  And the Nikon lenses, with mechanical aperture adjustment, won't AF nicely with Sony bodies, correct?

I'd almost be more leery of investing heavily in a full-on Nikon system, today, than I would be using a Sony/Canon hybrid.  If these AF promises pan out, that is.

[Jimmy]

Well every other Jimmy post is nonsense and I don't complain!

Last month was a breath of fresh air, interesting conversation about filmmaking... Back to square one with the anti canon clickbait

Shame, good forum and you post decent info, but the Canon clickbait is tiresome.

Bored... Over and out

[AaronChicago]

Guys, it's absurd to say Canon is doomed because they're not putting out cutting edge DSLR/Mirrorless cameras for video. They're crushing in the stills arena. Their Cx00 lines are a hit. Canon glass is extremely popular. It's a bummer they're not catering to the small camera video crowd but they're not going anywhere.

[theSUBVERSIVE]

Maybe on the forum... Not on the blog itself... Every other post is half dedicated to Canon's failings

​You probably have not being accompaning here for long enough, Nikon had plenty their share early on, it's just that they have been doing a better job improving than Canon which has basically not been improving at all. If you could actually look for the posts instead of throwing guesses this would had been a more productive conversation instead of just pointless.

[DBounce]

Guys, it's absurd to say Canon is doomed because they're not putting out cutting edge DSLR/Mirrorless cameras for video. They're crushing in the stills arena. Their Cx00 lines are a hit. Canon glass is extremely popular. It's a bummer they're not catering to the small camera video crowd but they're not going anywhere.

The reason why this makes sense is because the market is evolving. Customers are now accustomed to having both still and video capability as their smartphones provide both. It's a tough sale to new customers when their smartphone can shoot 4k and their new high-end camera can't. If you don't understand this fact, you must be one of the old guard.

[AaronChicago]

The reason why this makes sense is because the market is evolving. Customers are now accustomed to having both still and video capability as their smartphones provide both. It's a tough sale to new customers when their smartphone can shoot 4k and their new high-end camera can't. If you don't understand this fact, you must be one of the old guard.

​That's my point. It's budget-minded video features that you're talking about. Of course Canon sucks now in that area. That's such a tiny fragment of the big picture. I'm just saying phrases like "Canon is finished" is laughable.

[gethin]

I agree that a true global shutter this isn't. However, it could be down to F5 territory (5ms I believe?) in S35 mode. I'm very curious to see what the IQ is like with the full 135 sensor. Sony says it used in sensor binning which (in theory) is better than line skipping. Could have some aliasing but shouldn't have much moire. Personally I'd rather see a 24mp camera  with a true global shutter, full 6k readout down sampled to 4k, and faster FPS/focusing but this is quite the camera.

yes! My hope for a7s2 is 24mp allowing for 4k apsc mode.

[tyger11]

Everything I read about this camera makes me really excited for an A7S II.  (that's not a knock on this camera)

[gethin]

Maybe on the forum... Not on the blog itself... Every other post is half dedicated to Canon's failings

because they started it, and had so much potential. They are huge, and should've been pushing the sensor design envelope. Nikon are small and its true they have missed opportunities, but they never had a lead to squander