Is Panasonic rethinking high-end full frame mirrorless line-up?

[Al Dolega]

Res can stay right at 24MP IMO, it is the perfect goldilocks resolution. The Z6III has sub-10ms rolling shutter, if Panasonic can do similar without sacrificing DR or getting the weird flashing shadow effect I think it would be a big seller.

[Vadim]

On 9/11/2024 at 5:09 AM, IronFilm said:

Am amused at how your quote was in Russian, even though neither sanveer or your own comment was in Russian 😛 

 

 

On 9/11/2024 at 9:02 AM, MrSMW said:

First Ukraine, then EOSHD.

 

 

   Sorry, I just didn't turn off automatic translation in my browser😅 But don't worry about me, because Putin's real spies never make such stupid mistakes😉

On 9/11/2024 at 9:02 AM, MrSMW said:

 

Agree, they won’t, it’s far too bold and anyway, people will point and laugh at a tiny 10/12mp sensor and quote ‘2010 you losers’.

 

  Well, those people may always buy one of the millions high MP models or, at last, a mobile phone with 200MP camera to boast amidst their crowd. At the same time there must be one 10-12MP camera in every model line for those who want to benefit from a large pixel, for instance  astrophotographers, let alone filmakers.  Only Sony have done it and the line 7s are of much success. Panasonic, your turn. And this time on FF!

[MrSMW]

2 hours ago, Vadim said:

Only Sony have done it and the line 7s are of much success. Panasonic, your turn. And this time on FF!

Oh I agree there's a place for this, - I'm just saying the masses only want more because they think that's best.

As are longer lenses!

I wouldn't be happy going back to 10/12 for stills because I notice a BIG difference now I shoot 61mp over 24.

But for video, no problem and would happily shoot with FX3's and if I was all in on Sony (ie, not just for stills), would be my No. 1 choice.

[Davide DB]

Let's see what happens!

https://www.l-rumors.com/confirmed-important-panasonic-announcement-on-october-8/

 

[MrSMW]

Well I have my fingers crossed for next gen models of the S1H and S1R and anything less than at least one of these is going to be pretty disappointing.

If it’s something like this S5D as in D for Dumbed Down (should be double D), the community will fall about with laughter and Lumix’s stock as a brand will take another knock.

I don’t ‘need’ either of these cameras.

I have everything I need with my mix of 3x S5ii and single A7RV, but if I can in 2025, I would prefer to have both video and stills in a single system for various obvious reasons.

I have ruled out going the full Sony route. For stills great, but the video side just doesn’t do it for me.

We’re very close with L Mount now…

Lenses are now there. Just.

Bodies though, mostly it’s just an S2R for me, that poor (but smarter) man’s Leica SL3 that I would need to go all in.

We shall see…

[ND64]

They're so low volume in sales that using unique sensor is out of question. So expect to see a familiar sensor used by others. I would choose A1. They can't afford to not have 8k camera in 2024.

[MrSMW]

8k camera vs 6k internal raw with a decent codec and internal VND?

Hmmm, I reckon filmmaker/videographers would go the latter almost 100%.

The great unwashed however, well yes, they might think they want all the k’s they can get.

 

[eatstoomuchjam]

4 hours ago, ND64 said:

They can't afford to not have 8k camera in 2024.

My GFX 100 II already records 8K.  It's with a heavy crop and with unimpressive RS, but it's 8K at least.

[ND64]

Rumor from Weibo

LUMIX S5R

quad-Bayer 61M BSI

8K FF 16:9 30fps 25ms super-sampled

5K S35 4:3 48fps 20ms super-sampled

5K S35 16:9 60fps 15ms super-sampled

4K S35 16:9 60fps 15ms super-sampled

5K FF OG 3:2 60fps 10ms dot-to-dot

5K FF 16:9 60fps 9ms dot-to-dot

4K FF 16:9 96fps 9ms super-sampled

4K FF 1.25x crop 120fps 7ms dot-to-dot

dynamic range: FF 16EVs (FF4K)

-------

 

If true its slow ass 8k camera. But better than A7r5.

[MrSMW]

1 hour ago, ND64 said:

5K FF OG 3:2 60fps 10ms dot-to-dot

Similar to the original S1R but max 30fps.

That was a really nice image SOOC.

Actually, it might have been 4:5 or something but anyway, it was very nice.

But I hope if this is a hybrid they do something about the shutter feel and sound as S1R and S1H are sublime.

The S5ii’s is shit by comparison and the rear screen res not exactly great. Better than most Sony’s but nothing to write home about.

We’ll see…

[Andrew Reid]

I find it very odd that there's still no rumours about Panasonic's next flagship stuff.

There's absolutely no way I believe an S5R is on the way!

Why would Panasonic give away 8K FF 16:9 30fps 25ms super-sampled in a mid-range / entry level mode?

[Andrew Reid]

5 hours ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

My GFX 100 II already records 8K.  It's with a heavy crop and with unimpressive RS, but it's 8K at least.

Maybe a bit off topic but I am keen to know how you're getting on with the GFX 100 II in terms of everything else!

I absolutely love the design and feel of the body last time I tried it out.

Is it a big step up on the GFX 100 OG in terms of video with all the extra crop modes and faster sensor? How's the 4K?

[eatstoomuchjam]

14 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

Maybe a bit off topic but I am keen to know how you're getting on with the GFX 100 II in terms of everything else!

I absolutely love the design and feel of the body last time I tried it out.

Is it a big step up on the GFX 100 OG in terms of video with all the extra crop modes and faster sensor? How's the 4K?

Completely off-topic, but that's my fault.  I read the comments about fixed lens cameras and forgot it was a Panasonic thread.  The dangers of reading a forum first thing in the morning!

The extended DR mode 4k mode does have noticeably more DR.  Unless something's moving pretty fast, I'll use it every time over the faster readout modes.

Otherwise, I really like the 5.8k mode - I tend to like a wider aspect ratio.  My favorite thing about the 8k mode, ironically, is that it's cropped (and I can still crop in more from there).  It means that the 32-64/~26-52ish in FF terms now goes up to around 72mm in FF terms and for 4k output, around 140mm.  I've been meaning to play with the Nanomorphs in 8K mode since at least some of them will probably cover it.   For me, the biggest step up vs the OG is that it's a lot smaller.  I left the OG behind on a number of trips because I would have needed a bigger bag.

Even though I like it, unless there were a really specific reason to bring it, if going on set, I'd pick up the K-X (and soon the OG Komodo too unless that ebay seller sends me a box of bricks) or the C70 any day.  The GFX still feels pretty clunky in comparison.

But for travel/personal stuff, I'll grab it just about every time.  It's by far the best hybrid camera I've ever touched.  For my upcoming trip to Peru, I'm bringing it with the 32-64 and 23.  If I weren't trying to travel really light, I'd bring the 110.  The trip make my usual travel kit (sometimes with the 63/2.8 or a Minolta 58/1.4 to use at night).  I find myself more apt to leave telephotos home, at least partly because I can crop a lot and still have something that would easily print to 8x10. 

I'm also bringing an Osmo Pocket 3 since I'll feel a lot less paranoid about leaving it propped up on something to film myself and my travel companion than I would the Fuji.

[ntblowz]

1 hour ago, Andrew Reid said:

I find it very odd that there's still no rumours about Panasonic's next flagship stuff.

There's absolutely no way I believe an S5R is on the way!

Why would Panasonic give away 8K FF 16:9 30fps 25ms super-sampled in a mid-range / entry level mode?

Given how popular S5 are...especially in China, when I went to Tibet 2 months ago I didn't expect to spot quite a few ppl with Pana S5II! In here I think only my friend owned S5II, but most ppl who I see with Pana camera like pre S5 Era.. 😂  

 

But pretty sure it will be a mid range tier if they want to compete for market share, otherwise high tier is pretty competitive and sale volume not that high. (And there is Leica for the pyramid tier pricing)

[Al Dolega]

I wonder what "dot-to-dot" in that Weibu rumor means. Pixel binned? Lineskipped? It can't be pixel-to-pixel, the math is way off for a 61mp sensor.

[Andrew Reid]

This could be what has happened... Panasonic effectively pulling out of the high-end and leaving it to Leica, and will now only focus on the mid-range enthusiast market.

[Andrew Reid]

1 hour ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

Completely off-topic, but that's my fault.  I read the comments about fixed lens cameras and forgot it was a Panasonic thread.  The dangers of reading a forum first thing in the morning!

The extended DR mode 4k mode does have noticeably more DR.  Unless something's moving pretty fast, I'll use it every time over the faster readout modes.

Otherwise, I really like the 5.8k mode - I tend to like a wider aspect ratio.  My favorite thing about the 8k mode, ironically, is that it's cropped (and I can still crop in more from there).  It means that the 32-64/~26-52ish in FF terms now goes up to around 72mm in FF terms and for 4k output, around 140mm.  I've been meaning to play with the Nanomorphs in 8K mode since at least some of them will probably cover it.   For me, the biggest step up vs the OG is that it's a lot smaller.  I left the OG behind on a number of trips because I would have needed a bigger bag.

Even though I like it, unless there were a really specific reason to bring it, if going on set, I'd pick up the K-X (and soon the OG Komodo too unless that ebay seller sends me a box of bricks) or the C70 any day.  The GFX still feels pretty clunky in comparison.

But for travel/personal stuff, I'll grab it just about every time.  It's by far the best hybrid camera I've ever touched.  For my upcoming trip to Peru, I'm bringing it with the 32-64 and 23.  If I weren't trying to travel really light, I'd bring the 110.  The trip make my usual travel kit (sometimes with the 63/2.8 or a Minolta 58/1.4 to use at night).  I find myself more apt to leave telephotos home, at least partly because I can crop a lot and still have something that would easily print to 8x10. 

I'm also bringing an Osmo Pocket 3 since I'll feel a lot less paranoid about leaving it propped up on something to film myself and my travel companion than I would the Fuji.

Is the 5.8K mode oversampled from full width of the sensor?

The secret to the GFX for me is to use manual focus full frame SLR lenses on it like a Canon FD 55mm F1.2 Aspherical or something, I don't mind the fall off to darker corners as long as the hard vignette isn't present, which on many of these lenses 50mm or longer, it isn't. Even some of the cheap 50 euro stuff. And there is also now the very good Fringer GFX EF adapter which has fast phase-detect AF on the GFX 100, it works brilliantly with my Canon 35mm F1.4L EF, again very little vignetting but opens up the possibility of Full frame video or XPan look on a Fuji if you pair it with the Mark II in crop mode... So in that sense you have your replacement for the likes of a Panasonic S1H.

How's the autofocus in video mode?

[eatstoomuchjam]

6 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

Is the 5.8K mode oversampled from full width of the sensor?

The secret to the GFX for me is to use manual focus full frame SLR lenses on it like a Canon FD 55mm F1.2 Aspherical or something, I don't mind the fall off to darker corners as long as the hard vignette isn't present, which on many of these lenses 50mm or longer, it isn't. Even some of the cheap 50 euro stuff. And there is also now the very good Fringer GFX EF adapter which has fast phase-detect AF on the GFX 100, it works brilliantly with my Canon 35mm F1.4L EF, again very little vignetting but opens up the possibility of Full frame video or XPan look on a Fuji if you pair it with the Mark II in crop mode... So in that sense you have your replacement for the likes of a Panasonic S1H.

How's the autofocus in video mode?

5.8k is full sensor width 2.35:1.  I like to present in scope anyway so it's kind of perfect for me.  It's also great for lenses which almost, but don't quite cover. 44x33.

As far as manual focus FF lenses, I don't mind falloff much, but a hard vignette isn't great for me - and that's also where IBIS gets a bit problematic.  When using lenses that just barely cover, sometimes IBIS means you'll have a weird cutoff near the edge of the frame since the sensor moved out of the image circle.  The Minolta 58/1.4 that I mentioned above is one of the widest lenses that actually covers the full sensor and where I don't seem to get IBIS artifacts. 

I never really use it, aside from cropping the full sensor size image to panoramic/xpan, there's also the option to just use the ff mode which is still IIRC a 61-ish megapixel image.

I've never had the Fringer AF adapter, but my Steelsring adapter has supported PDAF for years now - and I think my Techart might support it too (though Steelsring has been great).  I don't know that Fringer's adapter was out when I bought them.  I also have a Fotodiox VND adapter, but I don't think it supports PDAF.  

Autofocus in video mode is mediocre by modern standards.  It's improved over the original, at least, but seems consistent with what people say about AF on the X-H2S and the similar.  Fuji announced a firmware update the other day which seems mostly focused on improving continuous AF in video mode - supposed to come in November.  I won't cry if it gets a bit closer to Canon/Sony reliability.

 

[MrSMW]

9 hours ago, Al Dolega said:

I wonder what "dot-to-dot" in that Weibu rumor means. Pixel binned? Lineskipped? It can't be pixel-to-pixel, the math is way off for a 61mp sensor.

Has to be pixel-pixel which on a large sensor is not far off APSC crop.

This was the case on the 47mp S1R when the best I could calculate was about 1.6-1.65 crop?

In 5k (same as it is for me when I shot 4k with Lumix), I simply selected slightly wider lenses and actually appreciated the longer reach so for instance, my Sigma 28-70 I treated as a 42-105 and on the S1R, around 50-115?

Now I shoot 6k OG, but find my 28-70 workhorse is often too short so considering the new 28-105 f2.8 for next year.

But of course it’s bigger and heavier and zooms more and aaaaargh, do I even need 6k OG or should I just go back to 4k cropped?

Rhetorical question. I really like the SOOC lut burned in 6k OG footage so not sure I could easily go back…

I am sitting on my fence waiting to see what gets announced as that will possibly determine what I do as it’s all part of a bigger picture.

No needs, just some ‘would likes if the options present themselves’. 

An S2R to Leicas SL3 as the S1R was to the Leica SL2 is top of my list.

An S2H second.

An extension of the S5ii line not so much.

Anything else, I doubt it.

[BTM_Pix]

9 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

And there is also now the very good Fringer GFX EF adapter which has fast phase-detect AF on the GFX 100, it works brilliantly with my Canon 35mm F1.4L EF

I'm curious to know if anyone has any experience with their Nikon to GFX AF adapter as it looks pretty decent from what I've seen and could make the GFX100 more appealing to me as a home for my Nikon collection if I don't buy a Z8 as my forever camera.