Is Panasonic rethinking high-end full frame mirrorless line-up?

[ND64]

What exactly Panasonic doing in 4k24p?60p is even worse. Then at 120p it looks 2MP image.

 

[IronFilm]

On 10/16/2024 at 12:55 PM, Marcio Kabke Pinheiro said:

In my view was a mistake to drop APS-C L Mount.

Only Leica was making them.

 

On 10/16/2024 at 12:55 PM, Marcio Kabke Pinheiro said:

If they make a APC-S GM5, with the Sony 26mp sensor, IBIS, a decent EVF, with PDAF and their LUT system, I would switch form Fuji ASAP. With a Sigma 18-50 would be a winner.

They can't do that, not unless they plan to totally kill their entire MFT line up. 

You can't have only one stop difference between two different mounts that you are supporting. 

They need to be two+ stops apart, such as Nikon F Mount vs Nikon CX Mount, or Fujifilm X Mount vs Fujifilm G Mount.

Otherwise if you have camera line ups that are only one stop apart in size then they must be sharing the same mount, such as is the case with Nikon F / Canon EF / Sony E / Nikon Z / Canon RF (note how the EOS-M series is getting killed off, not even Canon can support both of them at once when they're only one stop apart). 

[IronFilm]

On 10/16/2024 at 4:08 PM, newfoundmass said:

It'd be the death nail for M43 so it wouldn't make sense in that regard.

It's kind of a bummer that they didn't make the M43 lens mount larger when introducing it. I imagine they never thought they'd go full frame, but it'd have been really nice.

I wonder if in an hypothetical world if Panasonic had never released a L Series of cameras, but had stayed focused on their MFT cameras. 

But instead had released APS-C / S35 versions of their cameras, so that they could very clearly compete head to head with Fujfilm (plus the Nikon Z / Canon RF / Sony E mount APS-C cameras). 

Would mean a much stronger range of MFT cameras, maybe Panasonic (and Olympus) would be doing better today. 

On 10/16/2024 at 5:11 PM, newfoundmass said:

Ideally it'd have better image quality than that, haha. But if they need to sacrifice build quality and some optical quality to hit a certain price point then there aren't a ton of reasons not to. 

The keen fanatics might not be happy with the $159 50mm f2 lens, but most people would be fine with it. 

The original classic Nikon nifty fifty was from 1986:

https://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/5018af.htm 

Most people would be perfectly happy with its image quality in their cheapie lens. 

Or this lens from the 1970's: https://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/50mm-f14-s.htm Also a solid choice optically!

On 10/16/2024 at 5:23 PM, KnightsFan said:

Last week I tested my nikon ai 50mm from the 70s against a modern Irix 45mm, which is not a particularly cheap lens. At f1.4, the irix is clearly sharper and optically better in every way. But by f4 the only difference is that the irix is warmer, no appreciable difference in sharpness, CA, distortion, etc.

A decently made nifty fifty from the 80s can be pretty damn good, if it doesn't need to be super fast!

Exactly. (and the 50mm f1.8 from the 1980's is even reportedly a fair bit better optically than the lens you were testing)

 

[John Matthews]

On 10/18/2024 at 7:30 AM, ND64 said:

What exactly Panasonic doing in 4k24p?60p is even worse. Then at 120p it looks 2MP image.

For IQ, the S5ii is all about its 6k FF up to 30fps image. The rest isn't "bad" by any stretch, but there might be better FF cameras out there with full sensor readout. YouTube is NOT the way to look at the images either. In that video, I thought the Nikon looked really bad too. Most people here complain about the S5ii being too sharp and digital, not the contrary. You're absolutely right about the 120fps footage looking like a 2MP image because it actually is a 2MP image.

[ac6000cw]

Interestingly, in the Optyczne.pl 'Movie Mode Test' of the S9, they found some changes/improvements have been made to the video processing compared to the S5ii, so maybe that will turn up in a firmware update for the S5 ii?

S9 test: https://www.optyczne.pl/94.4-Inne_testy-Panasonic_Lumix_S9_-_test_trybu_filmowego_Jakość_obrazu.html 

S5 ii test: https://www.optyczne.pl/70.4-Inne_testy-Panasonic_Lumix_S5_II_-_test_trybu_filmowego_Jakość_obrazu.html

Z6 iii test: https://www.optyczne.pl/91.4-Inne_testy-Nikon_Z6_III_-_test_trybu_filmowego_Jakość_obrazu.html

There are also some downloadable sample clips on the next "Summary and sample videos" page of the tests.

The S5 ii is a 'good value' camera, making the best out of an old, slow (and cheaper) sensor which limits 4K60p to an APS-C cropped region of the sensor.

The Z6 iii is nearly twice the price of the S5 ii and has very recent, much faster, sensor allowing full-frame 4k60p with  low rolling shutter (and it supports internal RAW recording).

It's not really a fair comparison.

I had a play (in a camera store) yesterday with an S9 fitted with the APS-C Sigma 18-50mm f2.8 DC DN lens. Quite a nice combination at less than 800g total weight and I thought the handling was OK. As I normally shoot at 50p/60p the S9 would basically be an APS-C video camera for me anyway. Not sure yet if I actually want to buy one (versus other 'compact' possibilities like the ZV-E1, A6700 and ZV-E10ii, which have a much wide range of lenses available) so I think I might sit on the fence for a while and see what happens with the S9 pricing - in what has become quite a 'hot' area of the market.

[Davide DB]

On 10/10/2024 at 12:43 PM, Andrew Reid said:

DJI are an extremely innovative company and this could really be quite a special beast if it was to come to market next year along with a Panasonic S1H Mark II with a similar sensor (and huge DR) to the ALEXA 35.

So many helped spread the false news that Civil War was shot entirely with the DJI Ronin 4D. Instead, the main camera was a Sony Venice. However, the 4D was used especially in the combat scenes, and they also used an A7S3 for one particular scene.
I found this interview (with lots of behind-the-scenes footage) with Civil War DOP Rob Hardy very nice.

 

 

[Al Dolega]

10 hours ago, ac6000cw said:

Interestingly, in the Optyczne.pl 'Movie Mode Test' of the S9, they found some changes/improvements have been made to the video processing compared to the S5ii, so maybe that will turn up in a firmware update for the S5 ii?

I really hope so. I think it would be a big mistake to not port everything from the S9 to the S5ii/X as soon as possible.

[PannySVHS]

Looks like full frame HD 25p is exellent on the S9, whereas on the S1H on has to choose Apsc for that, like also tested by that polish website and youtube channel, but four years ago.:) How is battery life on the S9? Any tests regarding overheating? I guess I could check myself but I'm asking in case if someone knows already.:)

[John Matthews]

Just picked up an S5 for 764 Euros to replace my GH2 for live streaming. I'm not sure anyone will notice anything meaningful on the other end, but damn, the image is great even at 1080p. I’ve decided to dedicate it to all my vintage glass. To celebrate, I found an absolute gem—the Pentax 28mm f/3.5 (K version, not the M version). I had that lens before but regrettably sold it (note to self: 'Don’t sell vintage glass for peanuts!'). I used it on the A7RII for about a year—it was great, but I can already tell Panasonic is definitely going to elevate my footage for video.

[Ninpo33]

On 10/22/2024 at 8:03 AM, PannySVHS said:

Any tests regarding overheating? I guess I could check myself but I'm asking in case if someone knows already.:)

Peta Pixel did a follow up review on the S9 recently I just watched yesterday. Now that the little zoom lens is out and they let go of the record limits they gave the camera another look. Surprisingly they ran the camera for 50 minutes or so with 0 overheating issues and until the battery went dead. I was surprised to hear that… Huge shift from 10 minutes of open gate shooting upon release. Even 4k 60 went for 50 minutes and finally gave an overheat warning but still functioned fine so that’s some great news. 

[MrSMW]

It doesn’t surprise me at all.

I could easily get 30+ minutes out of a Sony ZV1 as long as it was not in direct sunlight.

Made for a reasonably decent little static B cam.

Ultimately not long enough on a few occasions, partly overheating and partly battery life.

So the S9 running longer does not surprise me, but I would not rely on that for pro work beyond a point.

IMO it’s better role is as a B or C cam for shorter clips.