Does Gyroflow beat stabilization in-camera (when available)?

[Emanuel]

What's your shot for the sake of it?

Or you'd rather have it in-camera?

(let alone the use of gimbal for other topic, right? ; )

 

Gyroflow is free and keeps your stuff untouched (if we can call it like that! : D)

 

Note: going on Catalyst browser, you just need to open your wallet there...

For some other interesting input on topic with some additional and useful cameraman techniques, click the link.

 

In the BMD world: https://forum.blackmagicdesign.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=203401

 

And here is some tutorial somehow RED's related, among any device where motion data is recorded by the camera.

[Emanuel]

*among many others, i.e., any device where motion data is recorded by the camera.

[Emanuel]

3 hours ago, Emanuel said:

*among many others, i.e., any device where motion data is recorded by the camera.

and here's a solution for the remainder ones:

 

[FHDcrew]

I need to actually film an example that I post online, but gyroflow is quite impressive at least if you film wide. Easy to get a steadicam look or a gimbal look, if you are going for more of a steadicam/stable handheld look you don’t have to crop in much. Only annoyance is with my Nikon Z6 there is no internal gyro recording so I have to use an external device (my phone).  Cameras like the Sony fx30 look so tempting because they record internal gyro; seems like such an easy workflow. 

[zlfan]

On 8/2/2024 at 11:38 PM, Emanuel said:

What's your shot for the sake of it?

Or you'd rather have it in-camera?

(let alone the use of gimbal for other topic, right? ; )

 

Gyroflow is free and keeps your stuff untouched (if we can call it like that! : D)

 

Note: going on Catalyst browser, you just need to open your wallet there...

For some other interesting input on topic with some additional and useful cameraman techniques, click the link.

 

In the BMD world: https://forum.blackmagicdesign.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=203401

 

And here is some tutorial somehow RED's related, among any device where motion data is recorded by the camera.

thanks a lot for the info. will research on this. 

I have some manual focus lenses over 100 mm, especially from medium format. so it will be great to have good use for them. now I only use them for taking photos. it will be great for video shooting. some lenses are very interesting, like bronica 110-220 vivita series 1 70-210 etc. will research and try this gyro stabilization approach. 

[eatstoomuchjam]

The poll needs an option for "seems to work well, but it is annoying to have the extra processing step" and "I hope they'll just add it to Resolve (if they didn't already and I missed it)"

[Clark Nikolai]

I've heard of it before but never tried it. Now that I'm putting together a shoulder rig, I should experiment with it. Even if I only use it a bit now and then it might help. I do want to maintain the shoulder held look and don't want the gimbal look.

[FHDcrew]

21 hours ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

The poll needs an option for "seems to work well, but it is annoying to have the extra processing step" and "I hope they'll just add it to Resolve (if they didn't already and I missed it)"

Yep. I find the most efficient workflow for those who need external gyro loggers is to use either a phone with the GyroCam app or an action camera. This is because they record video as well as the gyro data. Then when you come across a clip from your mirrorless camera you want to stabilize, just find the corresponding video clip where the same action is occurring; then you just sync up the gyro. 

[FHDcrew]

I tried using just pure gyro logging on my iPhone mounted to my Z6, but easily got lost trying to find matching gyro files, especially if I forgot to log for a take or whatnot which would throw off my sequential order of gyro clips. Having a visual reference is way better. Of course, in a perfect world we would get internal gyro like on new Sony bodies, blackmagic cams and reds, but this is a solid workaround. I also have played with both After Effect’s Pixel Motion Blur and Davinci Resolve Studio’s motion blur. Both are good; AE might be a bit more accurate, Davinci’s faster, but both work well. I will say for very fast moving stuff though it’s very hit or miss. And I am starting to realize the tediousness of the post-production workflow. 

[Clark Nikolai]

16 hours ago, Clark Nikolai said:

I've heard of it before but never tried it. Now that I'm putting together a shoulder rig, I should experiment with it. Even if I only use it a bit now and then it might help. I do want to maintain the shoulder held look and don't want the gimbal look.

Okay, so I did a test. Using a Digital Bolex and shoulder mount rig, three lenses, 5.5mm, 10mm and a 17mm. I mounted an iPhone with a holder, had it facing up with the app SensorLogger to record gyroscope data. I started the app a few seconds before rolling the camera. The Gyroflow software seems to figure out how to auto sync them very well somehow. (I didn't try the plug ins for Resolve or Final Cut.)

It took awhile to understand how it works but I think I got it now. This video helped a lot.

NURK FPV - The Definitive Gyroflow Tutorial

https://youtu.be/QAds3x8UU1w

 

The results are very good. I'm impressed. I shot in 2K so finishing in HD would mean potentially not losing any resolution. I'm mostly interested in just smoothing things out a tiny bit so this should be good. I like this better than operating a gimbal.

I need to play around more with it though. There are some points with smearing that comes from a 180º shutter. I'll do another test sometime with a narrower shutter angle/shorter shutter speed and see what that looks like.

If this becomes a normal part of my workflow I might want something simpler, like a GoPro or something. (It is one more thing to do when shooting.)

 

[Clark Nikolai]

On 8/15/2024 at 12:49 PM, Clark Nikolai said:

There are some points with smearing that comes from a 180º shutter. I'll do another test sometime with a narrower shutter angle/shorter shutter speed and see what that looks like.

 

I did another test. In case it's useful to anyone I'll document my process. (And I'm still learning it so there might be a better way.)

I shot with an iPhone mounted on the camera rig and started SensorLogger app a bit before rolling. I tested it with all the shutter angles narrower than 180º. There's a balance between avoiding weird motion artifacts (blurring) and movements looking to jittery. I found for my taste the best to be either 120º or 90º. I'll have to play around more to decide what to use.

In Gyroflow, I brought in a video clip, then set the Lens Profile (there are crowd sourced presets or you can make your own or use one that's close to your lens and sensor size). Then open the motion data (the gyroscope file from SensorLogger).

You then click somewhere on the timeline and choose Guess IMU orientation here. This analyzes the data and figures out which value is X, which is Y and which is Z. (As every device is different.) For my iPhone 8 and SensorLogger it's Zxy. (Once you know that you can just enter that each time into the IMU Orientation field and you don't have to have it guess again.)

There's a field (and check box) called Rough gyro offset. Check that and enter how many seconds you figure was between starting the app and rolling the camera. Then you click AutoSync. It works away and stabilizes and lines up the stabilization with the footage.  There are a few different ways to view it. Full cropped frame, or zoomed out with a rectangle and you can see your footage moving behind that. There will be vertical red bars in the timeline that indicate where the black outside enters the frame. You can adjust the FOV (field of view) and Smoothness to not have any red bars. For me shooting in 2K and finishing in 1080, I set the FOV to 0.94 which means it won't scale up larger than pixel to pixel. I then adjust Smoothness so I don't get any red bars. I also have it set to No Zooming. This is for a project where I want to just smooth the camera motion a bit but leave the camera motion in. 

Then export to ProResHQ and edit those new clips. (This is using the stand alone app. If I end up using this a lot I'll check out the Final Cut plug in.)

I'm pleased with the results so far. Hope this helps somebody.

[Mmmbeats]

Badly designed poll.

[Emanuel]

6 hours ago, Mmmbeats said:

Badly designed poll.

Really? What about that then? Let's spill your beans... what stops you to add anything value to the topic instead, mmm?! ; )

I simply hate when lazy people who have just added zero to any discussion come to simply criticize whoever (it's meaningless to be me BTW, trust me, but that gives me more right to address to the critical voice these words now) with none grounds to their claim. Pity you were not my student at University or Polytechnic or you'd have to repeat the academic year...

Now you know what I have to say to you for the subject matter, I invite you to drop your trousers and let us know what polls you are capable to offer!

Phew : X

[Mmmbeats]

15 hours ago, Emanuel said:

Really? What about that then? Let's spill your beans... what stops you to add anything value to the topic instead, mmm?! ; )

I simply hate when lazy people who have just added zero to any discussion come to simply criticize whoever (it's meaningless to be me BTW, trust me, but that gives me more right to address to the critical voice these words now) with none grounds to their claim. Pity you were not my student at University or Polytechnic or you'd have to repeat the academic year...

Now you know what I have to say to you for the subject matter, I invite you to drop your trousers and let us know what polls you are capable to offer!

Phew : X

The first option is for people who endorse the workflow.

The second option is for people who haven't used the workflow (which implies they don't know, one way or the other).

The third option is also for people who don't know.

The fourth item makes no grammatical sense whatsoever. 

I get that English is likely a second language, and I'm not trying to call that aspect of things out here - but if you want an unbiased poll, you need to present fairly-weighted options.

[Emanuel]

46 minutes ago, Mmmbeats said:

The first option is for people who endorse the workflow.

The second option is for people who haven't used the workflow (which implies they don't know, one way or the other).

The third option is also for people who don't know.

The fourth item makes no grammatical sense whatsoever. 

I get that English is likely a second language, and I'm not trying to call that aspect of things out here - but if you want an unbiased poll, you need to present fairly-weighted options.

Let's go then.

Where's the bias?

 

You accurately pointed out the 1st ones.

 

The third option is for those who haven't heard about it but are not so much impressed to give it a try.

 

The fourth one is clearly addressed to those who don't give a damn. Don't get where grammar applies here... Looks to me a bad review of Yeats' poetry based on his Irish ancestry instead. The example to pop up to my mind now.

Old school in this context means a strict mindset on topic where people who tend to see it as a mere hype, don't see any valuable use nowhere. So, a position also represented (*with)in the poll.

 

We can obviously include many variables (as happens above-posted by a third hand too BTW). Give the same script to distinct directors, you'll have different movies. The point is when people who have added zero to the equation just for the sake of the topic, come to criticise without adding anything to the discussion either.

 

Thanks for your polite reply,

- EAG :- )

 

 

* English grammar (like any other language grammar proper of any communication code) is dynamic. Nothing about that : ) A bit like elitism... leads to no place (I could use it 'nowhere' again but no skills beats the essence of it. Have you ever watched it? I invite you then ; )

[Mmmbeats]

10 minutes ago, Emanuel said:

Let's go then.

Where's the bias?

 

You accurately pointed out the 1st ones.

 

The third option is for those who haven't heard about it but are not so much impressed to give it a try.

 

The fourth one is clearly addressed to those who don't give a damn. Don't get where grammar applies here... Looks to me a bad review of Yeats' poetry based on his Irish ancestry instead. The example to pop up to my mind now.

Old school in this context means a strict mindset on topic where people who tend to see it as a mere hype, don't see any valuable use nowhere. So, a position also represented (*with)in the poll.

 

We can obviously include many variables (as happens above-posted by a third hand too BTW). Give the same script to distinct directors, you'll have different movies. The point is when people who have added zero to the equation just for the sake of the topic, come to criticise without adding anything to the discussion either.

 

Thanks for your polite reply,

- EAG :- )

 

 

* English grammar (like any other language grammar proper of any communication code) is dynamic. Nothing about that : ) A bit like elitism... leads to no place (I could use it 'nowhere' again but no skills beats the essence of it. Have you ever watched it? I invite you then ; )

Basically, if you have an endorsement for the first option, you need to also have an option for people with informed opinions who don't endorse the workflow.  Like having an option for both 'Yes' and 'No'.  Therein lies the bias in my opinion. 

Seen all the Golden Heart trilogy stuff, thanks.  Not sure the relevancy, but cheers anyway.

I'm enjoying the thread.  More so than the poll.

[Emanuel]

38 minutes ago, Mmmbeats said:

Basically, if you have an endorsement for the first option, you need to also have an option for people with informed opinions who don't endorse the workflow.  Like having an option for both 'Yes' and 'No'.  Therein lies the bias in my opinion. 

Seen all the Golden Heart trilogy stuff, thanks.  Not sure the relevancy, but cheers anyway.

I'm enjoying the thread.  More so than the poll.

Form. The guy says form is worthless. And at same time, the basics of any beginning as sorta raw material that it is.

 

There are two 'Yes' and 'No' options. The fourth is made for those ones informed but not endorsing it ; )

The only bias I see or can accept is when the OP : D calls them old school... which is actually different to infer those people as old fashioned anyway.

Hence the ecletic meaning of the use of the term old school there. : P

Old school is for informed people being the OP one of them ; )

However, this doesn't mean an old school guy cannot adopt a promising technology like this one. So, not everyone of them are represented there. If this is a biased opinion, let's embrace the bias then! LOL ;- )

[Clark Nikolai]

On 8/17/2024 at 10:20 AM, Clark Nikolai said:

I shot with an iPhone mounted on the camera rig and started SensorLogger app a bit before rolling. I tested it with all the shutter angles narrower than 180º. There's a balance between avoiding weird motion artifacts (blurring) and movements looking to jittery. I found for my taste the best to be either 120º or 90º. I'll have to play around more to decide what to use.

So, just found out about a software plug in called Real Smart Motion Blur. It analyzes the footage then applies motion blur to things that are moving. I haven't tried it (yet) but the previews look pretty good.

https://revisionfx.com/products/rsmb/fcp/

This might let me use a fast shutter speed but still have it look like I was shooting at 180º.

[eatstoomuchjam]

Have you already tried the various options in Resolve (motion effects in color tab, motion blur effect in Fusion) or the motion blur plugin in After Effects and found them lacking for your needs?  Looks like your link ends with "fcp" so maybe Final Cut doesn't have an equivalent to them?

[Clark Nikolai]

13 hours ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

Have you already tried the various options in Resolve (motion effects in color tab, motion blur effect in Fusion) or the motion blur plugin in After Effects and found them lacking for your needs?  Looks like your link ends with "fcp" so maybe Final Cut doesn't have an equivalent to them?

I haven't. It's something to check out though. I see now that there are several software options for this kind of thing out there.