Anyone here experienced in shooting a western?

[Celli]

In this last year I shot a bunch of rather meaningless clips and pictures while out for a walk or when biking to familiarize myself with a rather modern camera (Sony Nex-5R). Last time I used a video camera was 20 years ago. Me and my friends enjoyed shooting short movies alot at that time and we plan to come back to it before we are too old for this shit. Anyway, I am able to use a rather nice set-up reminiscent of a mini western saloon (from the outside at least).

We are huge fans of Terence Hill/ Bud Spencer movies and its only natural we want to make a short based on those. Script is kind of finished, it will be an assassination attempt like the very first part of "my name is nobody". Dont get mad about the the gun thing, there wont be any. This assassination attempt will have a strong comical twist. Also me and my buddies were rather skilled in martial arts when we were young, so any action involved will be some kicks and punches (hopefully still good looking)

Just watched "my name is nobody" recently to get a feeling for it and man those old movies are really nicely framed and shot. I would like to use this movie as base model. But those nice dusty browns and yellows with tons of color seperation within them will probably be very hard to match. Same for those reddish glowing skin tones.

So my question is: What else is important to consider when shooting a western like this? Any kind of advise is highly appreciated. Never done that before;)

-Camera will probably be my trusty moire and aliasing happy Nex-5R (Kit-lens and 35mm T1.4 lens, maybe some FD primes and zoom lenses)

-Grading in Resolve

Ah, and this is just for fun, neither me or my friends work in any way professional in this field. But still I want it to be as good as possible.

Here some screen grabs from the set-up trailer I shot to get my buddies hyped...and one from "my name is nobody" as a reference.

 

 

[fuzzynormal]

Oh my, one can be too old for this shit?  I may be in trouble. 

I'd say the big thing would be to storyboard it.

[johnnymossville]

A western would be a great project!    Good luck with it. 

[elgabogomez]

Stick to only one "brand" of lenses, either the kit zoom or the fd lenses, at least in the same scene. Color and contrast matching can get very tricky if you use something modern like the kit zoom in a wide shot and then cut to a close up with an fd 50mm 1.4 for example. If you already have a shooting list, try doing your scenes as pictures with the lenses you plan to use and then watch them in your computer and see if you can match the image from one lens to another. Matching light on narrative in the sun is quite the challenge, if you don't have it yet, get a reflector board ( the ones that are gold, silver, white...). Good luck

[Nikkor]

Anamorphic lenses

[Hans Punk]

I'd say that if you are after a classic Western look then composition that is framed to make the most of your aspect ratio is the way to go - i.e if spherical lensed footage is cropped to scope, make that frame aspect work for your story and shot compositions, don't just letterbox in post thinking it will make your footage look like a 'movie'- this is lazy. If you shoot actual scope/Anamorphic, use it to enhance the wider 'scale' that can be achieved. Western films of the past used camera movement sparingly - as the effort needed to shift huge blimpped Mitchell's around a backlot or location was quite considerable. This therefore imparted more static, composed and thoughtful placement of camera and action - this is probably the easiest aesthetic to match the 'traditional' Western style. A basic dolly and sturdy tripod would be enough to emulate most of the camera moves in many classic Western movies - add a simple jib into the mix, you have everything covered. Unless you riding on horseback for a POV shot  - handheld is generally a no no, but there are exceptions to this rule sometimes.

Watch Some classic Sergio Leone movies, see how effective framing can be when using the wider aspect...how it can be used to work as a composition tool to help a narrative. Notice how engaging the shots are - even when the camera is relatively static. Use extreme closeups very carefully - classically for when a 'stand off' stare down happens of some impactful reaction shot is needed. In the old days, closeups like that were used for impact - as the rest of the movie would be medium wide for almost all other action.

 

as for lenses, older generally better to get a genuine softer or older look (canon FD's are great) - but to honest nowadays any half decent camera and Resolve can do wonders to get footage looking how you would want.

[Liam]

 

if you are thinking anamorphic, but of course on a budget, this hack I thought worked surprisingly well to get anamorphic bokeh. a lot of factors though.. I guess the hack only works with 50mm and longer (guessing 50mm equivalent since he demonstrates with FF - but it might vignette easier on a crop sensor or when stopped down), so wider lenses may not match - which could be a real shame if you're letterboxing since you may want even wider than your usual wide option. Soundtrack is probably important here and editing rhythm and grade. haven't really looked at Western much. maybe be a little more subtle with the shallow depth of field in like that portarait in particular. but nice images. and nice saloon

[Celli]

Thanks guys, alot of great tips.

I should really get my storyboard 100% done and clearly write down which lens to use on which shot. Since I know the place I think I can even do it while not being there.

We might only have one weekend to do the shots were our whole group is together, so tinkering around with different lenses and angels when shooting is probably a bad idea.

@ Hans Punk, you are right, those old movies seemed use very wide lenses and very stable movement if any at all. I wish I had the SLR Magic Anamorphot to screw it on my SLR Magic 35mm lens, but thats too much of an investment at this point and hard to justify seeing I am not shooting alot. So my 18mm on the kit lens is actually the widest I can go. Another problem is that the place of course is not perfect, going too wide might reveal imperfections in the surrounding that spoil the atmosphere.

That anamorphic hack looks interesting:) I think I will try to use the kit lens for most of the shots at around 18mm and avoid any kind of bokeh with it, then very sparingly use the 35mm t1.4 (maybe with that anamorphic hack if it works) for those extreme close-ups of just the eyes etc. Both lenses seem very soft, but I better check again if they mix nicely.

Reflector board is also a good idea, I think the small Nex can not handle direkt Sunlight at noon, so I better get one. And I better get a small dolly as well:)

 

 

[Marco Tecno]

Great Celli! Looking fwd to your work. I'm Italian (as your two idols are) and I grew up with their movies. +1 for you!

[fuzzynormal]

Well, doing "this" certain look or doing "that" certain look is nice and all (and you should strive for a cohesive aesthetic--even if it's just doing the whole thing on a cheap 50mm lens) but you should really save more particular image considerations for the bottom of the want-to-do list.  

Ultimately, nothing is going to make your film more viable and successful than a good bit of considered pre-production planning.  And most of that stuff has nothing to do with lenses or cameras.

Also, it's free.  

Arguably, you could shoot the whole thing on an old VHS camcorder and if the story was solid, people will watch it.  Heck, I'd argue that the IQ low-fi quality of such would be a helluvalot more compelling than contemporary electronic imaging.  

Obviously, good IQ is great for a film, but certainly over-emphasized here.  An old NEX and a kit lens is more than good enough in capable hands...IMHO.  Especially for a western where the limitations of a "softer" camera fit the rustic quality of the setting.  Would great dynamic range be nice to have?  Yes.  Is it a necessity?  Well, I guess that's for you to decide.

Again, the most solid advice I can offer since you're on a time constraint, is definitely do the storyboard.  If you're real ambitious, slide-show your story board and then do a real time edit with a dialog comp/music track.  This can be fun if you have willing and eager players involved to do their voices (it's even a sort of rehearsal) and it'll also illustrate any camera-shot holes you might have...before you're on set.

Recently I made an experimental short film wherein I attempted to film actors on-locations in a documentary style.  While successful on certain levels, ultimately it didn't hold together as too many shots where absent, the production went way too long, and the talent floundered too much.  A director with more tenacity and skill probably could have tied things together better and artistically, but I definitely ended up stretched beyond my capabilities.  So, knowing what to do going in is the best bet.  At least it was from my experience.

If nothing else, all that pre-pro that helps you stay on task.  Ironically, it seems like you have the initial insight and (most important) helpful crew, that'll allow you to be more accomplished at this --more so than some aspiring "pros" like myself would be.

Obviously, come back here and post your results when you're finished.  I would love to see it.  I wrote a Western script last year that made it deep into pre-production before the investor pulled out...and I have a soft spot for that genre...hope it goes well for ya!

[Henry Gentles]

Watch the Searchers, apparently its the best movie ever made according to Spielberg, Lucas, Howard and Scorsese, they watch that movie every time before they shoot a movie. It does have some spectacular shots in it but I prefer Clint's westerns and dirty dozen stuff.

 

[Celli]

Never heard of that movie before, will definitly watch it:)

@fuzzynormal, thanks for all the advise. It will be the first time I draw/ slide-show a story board. I already started and my drawing got alot worse after all these years. But as long as I can see whats going on it will be ok;)

As also none of us are actors and since I know any poorly spoken or recorded dialogue is worse than no spoken word at all I might keep the whole short silent and work with facial gestures only. It fits the script anyways. If we really feel brave enough I try to get them to do some one-liners and will practice with them in a rehearsal. (so we dont laugh our asses off when we finally shoot it)

Biggest obstacle is still to find a matching time. The set wont run away so I hope it will be done before end of summer. I will post the video when its done;)

 

[fuzzynormal]

Never heard of that movie before, will definitly watch it:)

Whoa!  No John Ford for you?  Get ready for some iconic American movie images...one of the best and most influential movie ever made.