Autofocus (finally…)

[Snowfun]

I’ve been asked to produce a short promotional film which will benefit from having autofocus. Primarily because I’d be useless at trying to pull focus. My current stable revolves around Blackmagic. So no AF (at least not continuous for the pedants). Tracking would certainly be useful.

Options I’ve been thinking about…

FX30 (£1900)

C200 (£2800)

Anything else? 

Doesn’t need to be full frame (hence the FX30 rather than FX3). Internal recording only (and the raw of the C200 isn’t really a significant advantage). IQ is possibly secondary to the quality and reliability of AF. I will also use my iPhone surreptitiously. I hope to get away with the cheap Sony/Canon “kit” lenses available in  E and EF. The more carefully thought out and planned shots will be the BM6k. 

I’m not remotely interested in stills so a thoroughbred hybrid isn’t necessary. It will be collated from sequences shot over several months on an ad hoc basis so renting isn’t an option. Audio will be recorded separately (ambient only - no voices).

Thoughts? (And please no fps 60 vs 24 or DR 10 vs 15 debates!) Between those 2 (or similar) which has the better tracking and AF?

Cheers,

Tim
 

[MrSMW]

S5II from 1469 GBP on MPB?

[Snowfun]

48 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

S5II from 1469 GBP on MPB?

What’s the advantage here? (Ignore the price). Presumably in the real world (as opposed to YT “reviews”) the AF systems are very similar.

[Ninpo33]

3 hours ago, Snowfun said:

What’s the advantage here? (Ignore the price). Presumably in the real world (as opposed to YT “reviews”) the AF systems are very similar.

I second the s5ii but for slightly extra for the S5iix ($1,500 used) for the ability to record to tiny NVME SSD's and save on time/memory cards. You can use the Panasonic DMW-XLR1 XLR Microphone Adapter for nice, clean audio mounted right on the hot shoe. 6k open gate for reframing later in post and punching into 4k on the edit. Great color science and skin tones for ease of color grading, Great IBIS if doing any handheld B-Roll. No overheating, solid and dependable. 

Fx30 is solid but you will pay a premium for minimal specs and have to pay more for the audio top handle unit. No 6k for room in the edit and less low light performance from the smaller sensor unless adapting a speed booster (And loosing the great native Sony autofocus)

Have you considered a Sony ZV-E1? I want to try that out on some interviews and see how it does. Poor man's FX3 with most of the same specs and a few more the FX3 doesn't have. The only reservations I have is the potential to overheat if things run long or it's hot in the space I'm shooting. External add on fan can help that and it's only $1,700 right now. 

[Benjamin Hilton]

On 8/9/2024 at 3:08 PM, Ninpo33 said:

I second the s5ii but for slightly extra for the S5iix ($1,500 used) for the ability to record to tiny NVME SSD's and save on time/memory cards. You can use the Panasonic DMW-XLR1 XLR Microphone Adapter for nice, clean audio mounted right on the hot shoe. 6k open gate for reframing later in post and punching into 4k on the edit. Great color science and skin tones for ease of color grading, Great IBIS if doing any handheld B-Roll. No overheating, solid and dependable. 

Fx30 is solid but you will pay a premium for minimal specs and have to pay more for the audio top handle unit. No 6k for room in the edit and less low light performance from the smaller sensor unless adapting a speed booster (And loosing the great native Sony autofocus)

Have you considered a Sony ZV-E1? I want to try that out on some interviews and see how it does. Poor man's FX3 with most of the same specs and a few more the FX3 doesn't have. The only reservations I have is the potential to overheat if things run long or it's hot in the space I'm shooting. External add on fan can help that and it's only $1,700 right now. 

I would strongly discourage trying the ZV E1 for a shoot like this, too many usability issues. The FX30 is a fantastic camera for what you are trying to do. I don't have experience with the C200, but I can attest that the FX30 should meet all of your expectations. Good usability, great autofocus, plus all the other stuff you would want in a camera. Also don't forget that rental is an option, might be able to save a lot of money that way, or put your money into a really nice lens or two

[Snowfun]

30 minutes ago, Benjamin Hilton said:

The FX30 is a fantastic camera for what you are trying to do. I don't have experience with the C200, but I can attest that the FX30 should meet all of your expectations. Good usability, great autofocus, plus all the other stuff you would want in a camera.

That’s the view I’m coming round to. I thought there might be some singing the praises of the C200 AF/tracking but the FX30 simply ticks the boxes. 

[Ninpo33]

11 hours ago, Benjamin Hilton said:

I would strongly discourage trying the ZV E1 for a shoot like this, too many usability issues. The FX30 is a fantastic camera for what you are trying to do. I don't have experience with the C200, but I can attest that the FX30 should meet all of your expectations. Good usability, great autofocus, plus all the other stuff you would want in a camera. Also don't forget that rental is an option, might be able to save a lot of money that way, or put your money into a really nice lens or two

What usability issues on the ZV-E1? You should really specify why the ZV-E1 isn't a good recommendation with some facts. 

Overheating has been mostly fine for people who own and use the camera daily. The add on fan is an option in case you want to be extra safe. After the last firmware update the overheating has been fine for everyone I know who isn't shooting in the hot sun at 4k/60 for an hour. Camera has some nice features for a solo shooter on small projects and won't break the bank. 

ZV-E1 is a full frame sensor vs Crop sensor of the FX30 so better in low light and less noise at higher ISO's. Also doesn't have the the same rolling shutter artifacts as the FX30. FX30 is a great choice too but for different reasons.

He mentioned rental is not an option in his original post due to the nature of how he will shoot these clips a little at a time. 

 

[IronFilm]

On 8/10/2024 at 3:06 AM, Snowfun said:

I’ve been asked to produce a short promotional film which will benefit from having autofocus.

Are you doing this at least semi professionally? 

Going for the Sony FX30 makes sense so you can perhaps work alongside other productions using FX3/FX6/FX9/FS7

(and/or it makes for a great B Cam when you finally get yourself your own  FX6)

On 8/10/2024 at 3:06 AM, Snowfun said:

Primarily because I’d be useless at trying to pull focus. My current stable revolves around Blackmagic. So no AF (at least not continuous for the pedants). Tracking would certainly be useful.

Another option: hire a 1st AC

[Snowfun]

It’s a heritage railway I am involved with on a volunteer basis. No aspirations to become a professional or do this for income. But I want to produce something decent (primarily for my satisfaction as I suspect they will be grateful for anything…) FX30 is certainly #1 currently (the R5C did also appear in the running this morning but the benefits are limited). Had actually thought about an FX6 but it would be too much of a vanity project…

Realistically, my BMs will cover the external shots - the stunning landscapes and scenery - and an insta360 will do a lot of the “clamp to the loco” work.

[Tim Sewell]

I just got a FX30 last week and I'm finding the AF almost magical! Of course, this is the first camera I've had with anything close to state-of-the-art AF, but it's really revelatory how well it works.

[herein2020]

On 8/9/2024 at 11:06 AM, Snowfun said:

I’ve been asked to produce a short promotional film which will benefit from having autofocus. Primarily because I’d be useless at trying to pull focus. My current stable revolves around Blackmagic. So no AF (at least not continuous for the pedants). Tracking would certainly be useful.

Options I’ve been thinking about…

FX30 (£1900)

C200 (£2800)

Anything else? 

Doesn’t need to be full frame (hence the FX30 rather than FX3). Internal recording only (and the raw of the C200 isn’t really a significant advantage). IQ is possibly secondary to the quality and reliability of AF. I will also use my iPhone surreptitiously. I hope to get away with the cheap Sony/Canon “kit” lenses available in  E and EF. The more carefully thought out and planned shots will be the BM6k. 

I’m not remotely interested in stills so a thoroughbred hybrid isn’t necessary. It will be collated from sequences shot over several months on an ad hoc basis so renting isn’t an option. Audio will be recorded separately (ambient only - no voices).

Thoughts? (And please no fps 60 vs 24 or DR 10 vs 15 debates!) Between those 2 (or similar) which has the better tracking and AF?

Cheers,

Tim
 

 

The C200's AF was marginal at best when compared to any current AF system, it is also a massive camera by today's standards with mediocre IQ (I have one).

Are you actually going to buy a camera for just one project? Why not rent instead? Renting for a week or two is far cheaper than buying. I rent things like lenses all the time when I need something for one project.

[MrSMW]

On 8/9/2024 at 5:06 PM, Snowfun said:

It will be collated from sequences shot over several months on an ad hoc basis so renting isn’t an option

😉

[Snowfun]

54 minutes ago, herein2020 said:

The C200's AF was marginal at best when compared to any current AF system, it is also a massive camera by today's standards with mediocre IQ (I have one).

That's useful.

54 minutes ago, herein2020 said:

Are you actually going to buy a camera for just one project?

Yes. And no. There is only one project at the moment but I will hope to do other (personal) stuff in due course. I create a lot of lecture material for work so there its always a need.

[Snowfun]

3 hours ago, Tim Sewell said:

I just got a FX30 last week and I'm finding the AF almost magical! Of course, this is the first camera I've had with anything close to state-of-the-art AF, but it's really revelatory how well it works.

That sort of makes the decision! Anything "magical" is good. And moving from BM to FX30 (albeit with various stuff in-between such as the AX53 etc.) is an AF step I am looking forward to.

[IronFilm]

15 hours ago, Snowfun said:

It’s a heritage railway I am involved with on a volunteer basis. No aspirations to become a professional or do this for income. But I want to produce something decent (primarily for my satisfaction as I suspect they will be grateful for anything…) FX30 is certainly #1 currently (the R5C did also appear in the running this morning but the benefits are limited). Had actually thought about an FX6 but it would be too much of a vanity project…

Realistically, my BMs will cover the external shots - the stunning landscapes and scenery - and an insta360 will do a lot of the “clamp to the loco” work.

Hmmm.... if I was in your shoes then I'd be split between:

1) Panasonic S5mk2, to get "the best" at the "lowest" cost

2) secondhand Sony ZV-E10 (or one of the recent a6x00 cameras???), to truly minimize your expenditure with the cheapest possible good option with "modern AF" abilities 

3) Panasonic GH7, so that you share the same lens mount with your P4K, as it's a bad idea to be spread out thinly over multiple mounts (but I'm a hypocrite for pointing that out! ha) 

4) secondhand Panasonic G9, because it's dirt cheap, and has the best AF from Panasonic from the previous older (and thus cheap) generation 

[Benjamin Hilton]

On 8/11/2024 at 8:49 PM, Ninpo33 said:

What usability issues on the ZV-E1? You should really specify why the ZV-E1 isn't a good recommendation with some facts. 

Overheating has been mostly fine for people who own and use the camera daily. The add on fan is an option in case you want to be extra safe. After the last firmware update the overheating has been fine for everyone I know who isn't shooting in the hot sun at 4k/60 for an hour. Camera has some nice features for a solo shooter on small projects and won't break the bank. 

ZV-E1 is a full frame sensor vs Crop sensor of the FX30 so better in low light and less noise at higher ISO's. Also doesn't have the the same rolling shutter artifacts as the FX30. FX30 is a great choice too but for different reasons.

He mentioned rental is not an option in his original post due to the nature of how he will shoot these clips a little at a time. 

 

Use the two cameras side by side for a full day of filming and you'll know what I mean. The FX30 is a professionally built camera, the ZV-E1 feels kind of like a toy in a lot of ways. No specific issues other than bad rolling shutter, overheating, and a toy of a camera body. 

Depending on what you're used to, that might be fine. Just for me personally I would have a really hard time trying to do any kind of serious work with the ZV-E1 unless I absolutely had to. 

[Ninpo33]

3 hours ago, Benjamin Hilton said:

Use the two cameras side by side for a full day of filming and you'll know what I mean. The FX30 is a professionally built camera, the ZV-E1 feels kind of like a toy in a lot of ways. No specific issues other than bad rolling shutter, overheating, and a toy of a camera body. 

Depending on what you're used to, that might be fine. Just for me personally I would have a really hard time trying to do any kind of serious work with the ZV-E1 unless I absolutely had to. 

I’ve used both. I don’t recommend things blindly. I used two ZV-E1’s to shoot a music video for an international band here in Los Angeles. Worked great. 

Rolling shooter is 8.4ms, what are you talking about? That’s pretty good bud.

it’s the same sensor as the FX3 - a7S III, and the Bionz XR imaging processor is the same as the one found in the a7R V, the a7 IV, the a1, and a7S III.

Never had it overheat once on a 10 hour shoot. Firmware updates might have helped issues some people had early on, I’ve read mixed reviews. The original poster is looking for a small camera that won’t break the bank for pretty casual interviews, he’s not shooting a feature film. I agree the body isn’t as durable as the FX 3/FX 30 but it’s $1700 and basically a mini FX3 full frame not crop sensor like the FX30

But whatever.