Cupboards clearout (DVX100, DX1, old camcorders topic)

[BTM_Pix]

25 minutes ago, mercer said:

My old laptop... circa 2005 has a FireWire port and although it still works, I don't know if it can handle a transfer.

Considering some of the steam powered machines we used in the mid late 90s to transfer with then I'd guess that as long as it has a pulse (and ideally an external drive to write it too) then it should be fine.

25 minutes ago, mercer said:

My "new" computer is 10 years old, a MB Air, this doesn't have a FireWire port

Which one is it specifically ?

I'm writing this on an early 2015 MBA and it has a Thunderbolt 2 port so you might be in luck and only need three adapters.

1394DV to Firewire 400 > Firewire 400 to Firewire 800 > Firewire 800 to Thunderbolt 2

[BTM_Pix]

25 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

 

1394DV to Firewire 400 > Firewire 400 to Firewire 800 > Firewire 800 to Thunderbolt 2

Apple have of course discontinued that adapter so thats a no go.

Looks like the 2005 laptop it is then !

The alternative is to buy a dirt cheap 2009 iMac (which have firewire 800 ports and there are plenty that are available around £50) and use that with a £10 dv to Firewire 800 cable.

Probably cheaper than the adapters anyway and you can watch the footage being digitised on a very nice screen.

Similar vintage MacMinis are also another similarly priced but more compact option.

Both types also have enough power to edit the footage on as well for the full retro package !

 

[mercer]

51 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

Guess which of these two things that I have somewhere in that storage unit ?

Yes, thats right, both of them of course 😉 

Don't know how often you get over there, but I would LOVE a test of that set up, if you're so inclined. The HV20 has a special place in my heart and especially that "Cinema" mode. Am thinking of picking up an XA10 to have a "modern" access to it. 

[mercer]

27 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

Apple have of course discontinued that adapter so thats a no go.

Looks like the 2005 laptop it is then !

The alternative is to buy a dirt cheap 2009 iMac (which have firewire 800 ports and there are plenty that are available around £50) and use that with a £10 dv to Firewire 800 cable.

Probably cheaper than the adapters anyway and you can watch the footage being digitised on a very nice screen.

Similar vintage MacMinis are also another similarly priced but more compact option.

Both types also have enough power to edit the footage on as well for the full retro package !

 

It still powers on and seems to function... considering it has 4GB of Ram, it may take a while... but if my memory serves me, the transfer was practically in real time anyway.

I also have a 08/09 MacMini but it never really worked right and it doesn't seem to have a firewire port.

The iMac is an interesting option if my 05 MB can't handle it.

Thanks.

Do you have any experience with the HVX200? That was a popular camera for low budget narratives back in the day. I remember it being way too expensive for my wallet, but the P2 cards seemed like a cool alternative to tape.

[Clark Nikolai]

1 hour ago, mercer said:

I am in the process of trying to get old miniDV footage into my computer. My old laptop... circa 2005 has a FireWire port and although it still works, I don't know if it can handle a transfer. My "new" computer is 10 years old, a MB Air, this doesn't have a FireWire port... 

The FireWire protocol was incorporated into the Thunderbolt protocol. All you need is an adaptor. (Or adaptors.) What works for me is a good brand (Belkin in my case) 4-pin (tiny camera one) FW to FW800 cable. Then FW800 to Thunderbolt 2 adaptor. From that a TB2 to TB3 adapter into the 2018 MacMini. Works well. Final Cut and QuickTime Player can be used to capture with. (Probably other software too.)

[mercer]

20 minutes ago, Clark Nikolai said:

The FireWire protocol was incorporated into the Thunderbolt protocol. All you need is an adaptor. (Or adaptors.) What works for me is a good brand (Belkin in my case) 4-pin (tiny camera one) FW to FW800 cable. Then FW800 to Thunderbolt 2 adaptor. From that a TB2 to TB3 adapter into the 2018 MacMini. Works well. Final Cut and QuickTime Player can be used to capture with. (Probably other software too.)

My MBA does not have a Thunderbolt port. Just USB-A. Another reason I need to upgrade, I suppose. 

[Clark Nikolai]

7 hours ago, mercer said:

I also have a 08/09 MacMini but it never really worked right and it doesn't seem to have a firewire port.

Are you sure about that? From what I can find out online the MacMinis that came out in 2008 and 2009 all have FireWire. The older ones have FW400 and the newer ones have FW800.

 

[BTM_Pix]

12 hours ago, mercer said:

Don't know how often you get over there, but I would LOVE a test of that set up, if you're so inclined.

I will likely be over there in a couple of weeks for more sorting so I’ll dig them out and have a go for you.

The last time I saw the HV20 it had a spinning 35mm adapter on it so that might be interesting to re-visit!

The big challenge might be batteries and/or charger though for it but we’ll see.

[BTM_Pix]

12 hours ago, mercer said:

Do you have any experience with the HVX200? That was a popular camera for low budget narratives back in the day. I remember it being way too expensive for my wallet, but the P2 cards seemed like a cool alternative to tape.

Sadly not.

The cards themselves were way too expensive for my wallet !

[PannySVHS]

DVX1 still the queen of the bunch regarding body design and imager. Sorry, I have to say so.:) I once had filmed with a DVX100 before, a black or grey one. I really wanted it to be a DVX1:) Thank you very much! @Andrew Reid I wished this thing was progressive 720x576.

So does 720 x 576i translate to 720 x 288p resolution, giving half the resolution of the y-axis?

[Clark Nikolai]

9 hours ago, PannySVHS said:

So does 720 x 576i translate to 720 x 288p resolution, giving half the resolution of the y-axis?

If you're able to set the shutter speed, then set it to be at 1/50 (if frame rate is 25 fps). This would give any fast motion a nice blur. Then the two fields can be combined into one progressive frame and keep the full vertical resolution. If the shutter speed is shorter than that you'll get double images because each field will have fast motion being crisp.

[ac6000cw]

12 hours ago, PannySVHS said:

So does 720 x 576i translate to 720 x 288p resolution, giving half the resolution of the y-axis?

It's two interlaced (upper & lower) fields per frame, with a field being captured (for 25 frames per second) every 1/50 second. Probably using a 1/100 shutter speed by default to get 180 degree shutter per field.

Normally I deinterlace that to 720 x 576p at 50 fps for editing (but I'm a 50 fps person, not 24/25 fps  😉 ).

A modern adaptive deinterlacer (e.g. in a PC/Mac GPU or modern TV) will try to give you the best combination of resolution and motion smoothness depending on the picture content. So static content should retain the full vertical resolution but fast moving content requires interpolation from a single field or blending from both fields to avoid getting horrible 'comb' effects on edges.

Basically if you play 720 x 576i content on a PC (or Mac etc.) you'll be watching an adaptively deinterlaced version of it. The editing software I use (Vegas Pro) has an option to use the GPU adaptive deinterlacer (as an alternative to simple interpolation from each field or blending) - don't know about Resolve etc. as I don't use it.

[Andrew Reid]

Some good options there...

On 9/3/2024 at 7:31 PM, BTM_Pix said:

Apple have of course discontinued that adapter so thats a no go.

Looks like the 2005 laptop it is then !

The alternative is to buy a dirt cheap 2009 iMac (which have firewire 800 ports and there are plenty that are available around £50) and use that with a £10 dv to Firewire 800 cable.

Probably cheaper than the adapters anyway and you can watch the footage being digitised on a very nice screen.

Similar vintage MacMinis are also another similarly priced but more compact option.

Both types also have enough power to edit the footage on as well for the full retro package !

 

On PC side it is probably a case of just adding the expansion card to a spare PCIe slot?

Or even a PCIe capture card with S-video input.

There's also some £80 car boot sale/FB market place Windows XP PCs with a front panel that includes a firewire jack plugged directly into the mainboard.

Some external firewire interface boxes are also an option for PCIe sound cards like the Creative Audigy 2 ZS.

[BTM_Pix]

10 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

Some good options there...

I'm now treating the idea of an old Mac Mini to just be the £50 adapter that Apple don't make any more 🙂 

[Clark Nikolai]

6 hours ago, ac6000cw said:

A modern adaptive deinterlacer (e.g. in a PC/Mac GPU or modern TV) will try to give you the best combination of resolution and motion smoothness depending on the picture content. So static content should retain the full vertical resolution but fast moving content requires interpolation from a single field or blending from both fields to avoid getting horrible 'comb' effects on edges.

Basically if you play 720 x 576i content on a PC (or Mac etc.) you'll be watching an adaptively deinterlaced version of it. The editing software I use (Vegas Pro) has an option to use the GPU adaptive deinterlacer (as an alternative to simple interpolation from each field or blending) - don't know about Resolve etc. as I don't use it.

It's better to do the deinterlacing in software rather than hope the TV or projector hardware does a good job of it. Put the interlace material in a progressive HD timeline, deinterlace, then output that. Then however it's screened doesn't matter. You control the deinterlacing.

[Andrew Reid]

5 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

I'm now treating the idea of an old Mac Mini to just be the £50 adapter that Apple don't make any more 🙂 

Seen as though my retro tech hobby is now completely out of control I decided to get a 2007 MacBook Pro for FireWire duties today, cost 80 euro.

Came with some nice music and the SSD upgrade (500GB) which was popular back in the day, and seller chucked a 4S in with the deal.

there’s a number of aspects to it that suggest modern Apple have not necessarily gone in a forward direction!!

[mercer]

On 9/3/2024 at 10:25 PM, Clark Nikolai said:

Are you sure about that? From what I can find out online the MacMinis that came out in 2008 and 2009 all have FireWire. The older ones have FW400 and the newer ones have FW800.

 

Actually I'm not sure it was an '08/'09 Mac Mini. I thought we got it at the end of '09 but it may have been 2010.

[BTM_Pix]

29 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

Seen as though my retro tech hobby is now completely out of control

So, business as usual then but you've just shifted the decimal point a couple of places to the left 🙂

 

[mercer]

On 9/4/2024 at 3:10 AM, BTM_Pix said:

I will likely be over there in a couple of weeks for more sorting so I’ll dig them out and have a go for you.

The last time I saw the HV20 it had a spinning 35mm adapter on it so that might be interesting to re-visit!

The big challenge might be batteries and/or charger though for it but we’ll see.

Do you have a Letus adapter on it? Man I drooled over those things... now I just want a decent zoom lens with a rocker.

Yeah the batteries may be an issue, but I'd think they're still available... maybe we can start a collection for your experiment costs.

[BTM_Pix]

16 minutes ago, mercer said:

Do you have a Letus adapter on it? Man I drooled over those things

Not a Letus but the same type of deal.

It was made by a Canadian company who's name I can't remember for the life of me.

23 minutes ago, mercer said:

I just want a decent zoom lens with a rocker.

Canon had an excellent solution with this for EF-S.

They've revisited it now for the RF mount with the 24-105mm f2.8 but its not cheap at £4K (although thats all relative when it comes to servo driven zooms) and, well, its RF so its ideal for Canon only shooters.