The importance of firmware updates and why Panasonic are too late with V-LOG for the GH4

[Marco Tecno]

I want 10bit for nx1 as well! Possibly internally :-P 

[deezid]

@Jordan Drake

Skintones are actually manageable using cinelike D. But have been working on my workflow quite some time...

This is an example just using my LUT (Before, below after LOG LUT and further grading)

Notice the green hue on her skin (especially the last picture). It's completely gone after grading. 
I really would love to see a test between my workflow and V-LOG.

Here's the link:
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?336957-dLOG-(a-vLOG-replacement-somehow)

 

@Andrew Reid

Congrats to your forum software! Love it.

[Guest Ebrahim Saadawi]

Jordan, thanks you're the first one to report any real information. The fact that it does increase DR and tweak colour science coupled with the Metabones New SB makes the GH4 practically the best on the market for cinema use. 

[TheRenaissanceMan]

I want 10bit for nx1 as well! Possibly internally :-P 

​Agreed. 10-bit will always be a bigger leap in image quality than 4K, and I'd love to get that extra bit out of Samsung's amazing sensor. With their efficient compression, it might not even be such a huge boost in file size.

[Zak Forsman]

I don't know about that. My experience is limited to the GH4, but I can see a huge improvement in detail and noise by shooting 4K scaled to 1080p in post, rather than shooting 1080p in-camera. And in my 8bit vs 10bit comparison tests, it's nearly impossible to tell one from the other on a 10bit monitor until you start to aggressively grade it.

[Guest Ebrahim Saadawi]

From my testing on various cameras 4K makes a much, much, much bigger difference than 10bit. 

[TheRenaissanceMan]

With which cameras? On what settings? Makes a bigger difference to which parameters?

I'm more of a writer and director than a cinematographer, so I tend to evaluate images by feel. Looking at 10-bit, I see a much greater depth, tonal clarity, and a richer palate of colors than any 8-bit 4K. This is exacerbated by everyone shooting their cameras super flat, even though we've known for years that shooting 8bit codecs flat ruins their tonality and definition in the midtones--ie, skintones. 

In this test, for example, there's a huge, marked difference between internal 4k and the externally recorded files. https://vimeo.com/101350338 It's not something easy like just sharpness, either. It's an overall aesthetic difference that's easy to notice but hard to explain. The aspect we CAN put a number to is dynamic range. If you squeeze 12 stops of dynamic range into an 8-bit bucket, you only have 21.3 tones per stop. This gives you muddier tones with thinner gradients. With 10-bit, on the other hand, you get 85.3 different tones for each stop of dynamic range. That's huge. It also affects the richness and accuracy of your colors, since the same color with a slightly different tone is in fact a different hue. To me, this also gives a sense of richer detail since the shadows (a huge visual cue for resolution) have better tonal definition. 

I feel like we got caught up in this whole 4K thing to get rid of moire, aliasing, and manufacturers pawning off upscaled SD garbage on us instead of proper HD. Now we've gotten rid of those problems but forgotten what we wanted in the first place: a cinematic look. And in that regard, bit and color depth were always bigger obstacles than resolution.

My two cents. 

[Inazuma]

​I've noticed a huge improvement in skin tones with V-Log L, I've been bitching about Cine-D 'wax face' for some time. I've only shot preliminary tests with 10 bit, but it does look to make a difference in skies. I'll test it more thoroughly this week.

The colours in that video still don't seem as natural or as nice as those shots with your usual cameras though?

 

[Jordan Drake]

The colours in that video still don't seem as natural or as nice as those shots with your usual cameras though?

 

​Perhaps, but the GH4 not matching the FS7 (and previously FS700) isn't a huge slight. I far prefer the look to the previous episodes we've shot on the GH4. I'm also just getting used to the profile. In the most recent episode, I went for a much more contrasty saturated look in harsh light, you can see those results here (https://youtu.be/Ye9TrMw_nHI). I'll be finding a middle ground in the next few episodes, stay tuned.
 

 

[TheRenaissanceMan]

Jordan did an amazing job with the VLog in the latest TCSTV episode. Colors, DR, and skin tones all look great--and it's just the internal 8-bit! 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ye9TrMw_nHI

[ohm555]

I agree with the post.

 

 

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[ohm555]

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[ohm555]

I agree with the post.    ohm .........

 

 

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[Inazuma]

​Perhaps, but the GH4 not matching the FS7 (and previously FS700) isn't a huge slight. I far prefer the look to the previous episodes we've shot on the GH4. I'm also just getting used to the profile. In the most recent episode, I went for a much more contrasty saturated look in harsh light, you can see those results here (https://youtu.be/Ye9TrMw_nHI). I'll be finding a middle ground in the next few episodes, stay tuned.
 

 

​The grading looks a lot better  I think you should keep this style. The footage looks especially good when Chris is in shade. When he is in a lot of sunlight he looks a little too flat

[TheRenaissanceMan]

My one dissatisfaction with the TCSTV footage is that despite the great DR, the highlights seem to clip pretty abruptly. Maybe a Promist filter would help soften the transition a bit.

[BrorSvensson]

Im very impressed that the highlights in this shots are still very clear and you can see the detail in his hair etc.

Very nice job jordan

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[MaxAperture Films]

My one dissatisfaction with the TCSTV footage is that despite the great DR, the highlights seem to clip pretty abruptly. Maybe a Promist filter would help soften the transition a bit.

​It just looks like an over-exposure issue on a couple clips, most show a huge DR improvement to my eyes.  I can't say I'm surprised though, the sensor's raws have a ton of DR when pushed in LR and PS.  The sensor is within 1 stop of Canon and Sony in the DR department but I prefer the color science I see coming out of the GH4.  Skin tones look very pleasing and greens and blues are preferable to what I typically see in some Sony footage (occasional weird yellows in foliage and unnatural looking "blue" skies).

[TheRenaissanceMan]

​It just looks like an over-exposure issue on a couple clips, most show a huge DR improvement to my eyes.  I can't say I'm surprised though, the sensor's raws have a ton of DR when pushed in LR and PS.  The sensor is within 1 stop of Canon and Sony in the DR department but I prefer the color science I see coming out of the GH4.  Skin tones look very pleasing and greens and blues are preferable to what I typically see in some Sony footage (occasional weird yellows in foliage and unnatural looking "blue" skies).

​Yeah, the primaries look wonderful. Pure and natural. The DR looks nice too, but like the GH4's stills (which I have extensive experience with), that nice wide DR clips abruptly without much transition. It has enough DR to tease out a good roll off, but you have to do it yourself. The VLog appears to skew the highlights a bit yellow too, which isn't a look I love. Reminds me of the F3 and some of the other lower-end Sonys. 

Still, VLog is a huge upgrade to the stock GH4 image. If they released that firmware tonight, I'd order a GH4 tomorrow. Dead serious. 

[johnnymossville]

That Camera Store TV shoot looked very good to me.  Punchy, good skin tones, nice DR.   I can't wait to get hold of v-log myself.    That said, I'll happily wait a bit longer, if it means they are optimizing to it's fullest potential.