DJI & Hasselblad - New L-Mount Camera Coming?

[Ninpo33]

DJI has been quietly growing in the camera space and making moves. Now with their recent majority stake acquisition in Hasselblad what's next? Are they set to take on the "Big Four" in the mirrorless camera market. With a new announcement coming in early September we won't have long to wait at least.

I would love to see an innovative company like DJI leverage all of their existing tech and incorporate a lot of nice new features into a prosumer level camera. Wireless audio/video transmission and lots of their other IP could make for a real game changer. I look forward to a possible disruption like this and to put even more pressure on the other companies to innovate. The Ronin 4D Camera is definitely interesting and DJI doesn't seem to shy away from innovation. 

https://www.imaging-resource.com/news/2024/08/27/is-dji-joining-the-mirrorless-camera-market

[MrSMW]

Sony, Canon, Nikon, Fuji, L Mount combining Lumix and Leica surely = ‘Big 5’, but semantics aside, could be an interesting move…

If Lumix for instance do not bring out a next gen S1 line as some think might be a very real possibility, then this may very well leave a hole that DJI will gobble up.

Why? Disillusioned L Mount users is who! Ie, if we feel snubbed by Lumix effectively stopping with the S5ii and any new DJI body is up to snuff, we may very well port all our L Mount glass in that direction.

The X2D is beyond my means and the Ronin jobbie a bit overkill for my needs and then there is the Pocket series… 

I can very well see how they could produce something quite disruptive.

Potentially very interesting…

[Al Dolega]

They are definitely the juggernaut in the room, at least the L-mount room. When DJI does something it seems to usually be leagues past competitors, in the tech itself and the execution and usability; or at least they get to that point very quickly, within a product generation or two.

Maybe that hamstrings them though? Many of their products have no real competitors, perhaps they would shy away from making a "normal" camera and having to compete directly.

I had forgotten about their buying Hasselblad, not sure how much that would really add to an L-mount product but it's good marketing at least. Having Hasselblad and Leica in L-mount would certainly up the prestige factor. Although I wonder if Leica would object to Hasselblad joining? As they are more of a rival to Leica in the rich-boy/dentist cam space.

 

[IronFilm]

17 hours ago, MrSMW said:

Sony, Canon, Nikon, Fuji, L Mount combining Lumix and Leica surely = ‘Big 5’, but semantics aside, could be an interesting move…

Ignoring MFT?? With Panasonic + OMD + many others. 

 

17 hours ago, MrSMW said:

Why? Disillusioned L Mount users is who! Ie, if we feel snubbed by Lumix effectively stopping with the S5ii and any new DJI body is up to snuff, we may very well port all our L Mount glass in that direction.

The X2D is beyond my means and the Ronin jobbie a bit overkill for my needs and then there is the Pocket series… 

Blackmagic's L Mount camera probably took way a few S1/S1H users who were wanting for something even more than what the S5mk2 is. 

But Blackmagic is only ever going to take away people who are 100% committed to videography/filmmaking. Even people are even a 95%/5% split with also doing photography, then I can't see them ditching Panasonic completely for Blackmagic. 

While I don't believe DJI will release a camera under the DJI brand any time soon (i.e. within the next 18 months) that will cater to the 50/50 video/photos users, they might release a video hybrid camera with enough basic photo capabilities (unlike Blackmagic cameras) that it might at least tempt away some 80%/20% video/photos users in the L Mount camp. 

10 hours ago, Al Dolega said:

I had forgotten about their buying Hasselblad, not sure how much that would really add to an L-mount product but it's good marketing at least. Having Hasselblad and Leica in L-mount would certainly up the prestige factor. Although I wonder if Leica would object to Hasselblad joining? As they are more of a rival to Leica in the rich-boy/dentist cam space.

Does Leica have veto power over allowing new brands into the L Mount Alliance?? I think they might?? Not sure from memory. 

[MrSMW]

I can’t see Hasselblad themselves using the L Mount.

Adapted maybe, but they just live in another plane of existence so whilst any new DJI camera might use some Hasselblad tech, I would suspect that Hassie would not want their brand ‘dumbing down’ and having any DJI product branded as HASSELBLAD.

Or maybe under new ownership they would just as Leica have done previously with Panasonic?

But that one seems to only have happened with the low end compact stuff and the I think actually semi-officially announced last year, new Leica/Lumix camera never appeared.

I don’t know but DJI has some momentum and seem to be one of the more innovative camera companies and Hassie arguably have an even higher status than Leica, so there is potentially a lot of ammunition there…??

[JulioD]

I think the drone market is huge.

Making video cameras for video enthusiasts….  Not so much. 

I don’t think the market is really big enough for them to care to make something.  They did the 4D thing and I think it basically bombed. Didn’t they just slash the price of it?  I don’t know anyone that’s using it beside the high profile users they paid for the launch.

[MrSMW]

2 hours ago, JulioD said:

I don’t think the market is really big enough for them to care to make something.  They did the 4D thing and I think it basically bombed. Didn’t they just slash the price of it?  I don’t know anyone that’s using it beside the high profile users they paid for the launch.

That’s a good point and even how many of ‘The Chosen’ are actually using the things after their initial review despite hailing it The Messiah?

Food for thought…or maybe DJI just want to give it a go as in have a punt and see what unfolds?

 

[eatstoomuchjam]

The Ronin 4D price dropped $400 in February because they chose to stop shipping it with internal ProRes RAW enabled.  Now it's a separate add-on license for $979.  I'm guessing that the old price was the "pay Apple for the PRR license" and the new cost is "pay Apple for the PRR license and pay Nikon/Red to license their patent."

I'm not sure how many of the initial folks are still using it, but at least Josh Yeo really seems to like his and seems to still be using it for a whole lot of stuff.  They also shot the majority of Civil War with it.  I'd say that it's less of a bomb and more of a niche camera - and if DJI expected it to be anything other than that at $6800/$12000, they did a shitty job of market research and failed to pay attention to their own history.

For me, the camera is interesting/tempting and at about $4k or less, it might be a buy, but I also look at it with side eye because I owned the original Osmo RAW and loved it, even with the jet engine sound made by the fan...  but DJI basically fully abandoned it and the phone app to control it wasn't all that stable.

[KnightsFan]

I started researching the 4D camera a little closer and I have to say it rally hits a lot of the points I want in a camera. I can't see how they are possibly breaking even on this stuff, but I really hope they continue to make more of those.

I'd have to assume that if they enter the hybrid market, their angle will be these cool accessories, like wireless video and Lidar autofocus. Because the one thing they don't really have is a great image. I mean there's nothing wrong with their image, there's just nothing special about it.

[MrSMW]

11 minutes ago, KnightsFan said:

Because the one thing they don't really have is a great image

Their image as a brand or the quality of the images they produce?

If the former, yes, I think of DJI as being THE drone company.

Hasselblad though, I see as the epitome of stills photography cameras. Outside of large format brands no one has ever heard of.

But then are the great unwashed even aware of Hasselblad? Outside of photography circles, very few I suspect and the majority of cameras are sold to people who are not 'photographers' as such.

If DJI can market anything with a Hassie brand association at the very least, that surely has to be in their favour though?

[KnightsFan]

1 hour ago, MrSMW said:

Their image as a brand or the quality of the images they produce?

I meant the visual image quality coming out of the camera, specifically the Ronin 4D's. I totally understand that you're paying for the unique gimbal, focus, and monitoring solution, but for $6800 I'm not taken with the image quality. Without having done any research, it seems like the 6K uses roughly the same sensor found in all the modern 24MP consumer cameras. So what I meant was that if that's the level of their image in a high end camera, they might find it difficult to enter the hybrid market unless they're (once again) leveraging unique peripherals. Which is not a bad thing. I'm just musing out loud that if they make a generic Panasonc-S5-clone with DJI branding, I don't know that I see the point.

For comparison, I think the C70/C300III/C500II, anything recent from Blackmagic, and the Komodo have good images. I'm not unfairly comparing to really expensive images.

[Ninpo33]

3 hours ago, MrSMW said:

If DJI can market anything with a Hassie brand association at the very least, that surely has to be in their favour though?

You may recall that they have been using the Hasselblad logo on their drones/lenses for a while now. Definitely remember the first time I saw one and it did make me think, "Wow, they're upping the image on these drones now"...

[Ninpo33]

10 hours ago, JulioD said:

I don’t think the market is really big enough for them to care to make something.  They did the 4D thing and I think it basically bombed. Didn’t they just slash the price of it?  I don’t know anyone that’s using it beside the high profile users they paid for the launch.

I know a few DP's using it on commercials here in LA and are pretty happy with it to be honest. It's actually an inexpensive and fast way to get shots that used to take a few people and a lot more rigging. That time saved and maybe one or two less operators means small production studios can save big over a few jobs and pay back the camera really quickly. I could also see someone shooting a student film or short using it and pulling off some really creative shots. 

Shawn Hernandez has put out some good material on YouTube and I like the look of the Dulens Mini Primes on the 4D. The new smaller Anamorphic glass like the Laowa Nanomorph are also opening up a whole new look on the cheap. 

Shawn Hernandez

https://youtu.be/1SqVhqNrzAA?si=2r-KHrsLA3cKMf86

[IronFilm]

9 hours ago, MrSMW said:

But then are the great unwashed even aware of Hasselblad? Outside of photography circles, very few I suspect and the majority of cameras are sold to people who are not 'photographers' as such.

Leica is to Rolex as Hasselblad is to Audemars Piguet.

Every man and his dog has heard of Leica & Rolex, but you need to be at least a teeny little bit nerdy to have heard about Hasselblad or Audemars Piguet (although, rappers have made them a little more famous. I guess once lots of rappers make music videos using a Hasselblad then they'll also become a bit more mainstream, but for now they prefer a RED)

 

[MrSMW]

10 hours ago, Ninpo33 said:

You may recall that they have been using the Hasselblad logo on their drones/lenses for a while now. Definitely remember the first time I saw one and it did make me think, "Wow, they're upping the image on these drones now"...

Nope, I did not now that. I still have a sub-Hasselblad Mavic Air 2S which won’t have as good image quality without that branding 😉

But that was my point as in the badge DOES have an effect, even if it’s just a placebo one!

Also there is a Hasselblad phone, a tie up with someone I presume…

As a photographer, do I want a Hasselblad phone? Hell yeah!

(Aware of it, but beyond that, not actually looked).

4 hours ago, IronFilm said:

I guess once lots of rappers make music videos using a Hasselblad then they'll also become a bit more mainstream

Please no. I don’t want to see the X2D become the next X100vi and become known as ‘The Tit Tock Camera’ 🤪

[MrSMW]

12 hours ago, KnightsFan said:

I meant the visual image quality coming out of the camera, specifically the Ronin 4D's

Well that’s a bit of a shame then, considering the price…

I haven’t watched a single review but based purely on the YouTube thumbnails I have seen plus the price, dismissed it out of hand for my needs.

I do however like the fact that it exists as I do anything ‘different’. Even the Pixie camera.

[Alt Shoo]

On 9/1/2024 at 12:25 PM, KnightsFan said:

 I mean there's nothing wrong with their image, there's just nothing special about it.

I’m not defending DJI, but this comment sounds like a bit of unnecessary skepticism because objectively the image is as good as any of the cameras on the market today. Competent shooters knows it’s what’s put in from of the sensor that paints these images. 

[KnightsFan]

2 minutes ago, Alt Shoo said:

I’m not defending DJI, but this comment sounds like a bit of unnecessary skepticism because objectively the image is as good as any of the cameras on the market today. Competent shooters knows it’s what’s put in from of the sensor that paints these images. 

That's what I mean. The 6k is a $6800 camera that to my eyes doesn't offer an image above cameras half its price.

And I fully understand that it's valid to look at it like a $2k camera with a $4.8k lidar, gimbal, and wireless kit, and that it's a great deal in that sense. For some people, this is the best camera for their job. It will absolutely make good images, same as everything that uses that sensor and has decent codecs and log recording.

In my opinion, the footage I have seen out of several of Canon and Blackmagic's cameras looks better or is easier to work with than DJI's. So if I need stabilized shots, I'd rather spend less on the camera, put extra cash into rigging, and retain my non-vendor-locked upgrade path than commit fully to DJI and hope that someday they have a different camera (for example, one with faster readout). Downside is of course that my rigs are less integrated and convenient, but that's a tradeoff I'll take.

Now if DJI's sensor and image pipeline was closer to the top of my list already, then the pros/cons would change.

That is of course a personal weighing regarding my budget and shoots. Others will land in a different place.

[Ninpo33]

20 hours ago, KnightsFan said:

That's what I mean. The 6k is a $6800 camera that to my eyes doesn't offer an image above cameras half its price.

In my opinion, the footage I have seen out of several of Canon and Blackmagic's cameras looks better or is easier to work with than DJI's. So if I need stabilized shots, I'd rather spend less on the camera, put extra cash into rigging, and retain my non-vendor-locked upgrade path than commit fully to DJI and hope that someday they have a different camera (for example, one with faster readout). Downside is of course that my rigs are less integrated and convenient, but that's a tradeoff I'll take.

Yeah, I mean you’re kind of just stating the obvious here.

Sigma FP has an amazing raw image for $1,000 but would you bring that on a professional set bare bones? Even after you rig up a $2,000 consumer camera with equivalent features of the DJI it’s not going to have anywhere near the convenience, ease of use or be as modular. It’s the FX3 vs FX6 argument but the DJI in this case has a lot of unique features that allows for difficult shots in a time sensitive environment. 

it’s around the price of the FX6 and also has built in ND’s but allows for 3 mount options including Leica M and Sony E. Integrated power for the gimbal, wireless and lidar focus alone saves so much time since you’re not rigging and managing cables. 

I understand your point but in the end, it’s a total bargain for what it can do and how well it does it. The time savings for getting difficult shots in fewer takes on a pro shoot would literally pay for itself in a few shoots. 

 

 

[KnightsFan]

39 minutes ago, Ninpo33 said:

Yeah, I mean you’re kind of just stating the obvious here.

I thought it was obvious reasoning, I was clarifying my stance on the image as being "meh" compared to cameras half that cost. I'm not saying it looks bad, just that you really have to need the compact gimbal for it to be worth buying over cheaper options with better images.

43 minutes ago, Ninpo33 said:

Sigma FP has an amazing raw image for $1,000 but would you bring that on a professional set bare bones? Even after you rig up a $2,000 consumer camera with equivalent features of the DJI it’s not going to have anywhere near the convenience, ease of use or be as modular.

I'm not talking about hybrids. Considering used prices for all models referenced, C70's, Komodos, and 4.6K G2's are considerably cheaper than 4D 6K's. C300 MkIII's are slightly cheaper. Z Cam F6 (which imo is a similar kind of good-but-not-great-image) is a fraction of the cost, and that one in particular is high value since it includes wireless monitoring and control.

I do disagree that after rigging it "won't be as modular," since I think it's more straightforward to rig a Komodo on a gimbal than it is to rig a Ronin 4D on a traditional tripod setup with heavy lenses and matte box.

You can also go fairly extreme and get a

50 minutes ago, Ninpo33 said:

I understand your point but in the end, it’s a total bargain for what it can do and how well it does it. The time savings for getting difficult shots in fewer takes on a pro shoot would literally pay for itself in a few shoots. 

I totally agree with this statement. It's just not the right bargain for me.