4K 120fps is now on iPhone...

[eatstoomuchjam]

1 hour ago, Eric Calabros said:

What I'm talking about is very clear and there is an expression for that in english language: Horses for courses. Just because two different devices do a similar work in some situations doesn't mean the CPU inside device A is suitable for the device B. GoPro isn't a Japanese conservative company, and yet they didn't use Snapdragon. 

No.  They either use Ambarella (like every other action camera vendor) or make their own (which might be why they're struggling)

1 hour ago, Eric Calabros said:

1. Snapdragon, fabbed 12nm or 3nm, has an architecture designed to do a lot of things that are not related to professional dedicated camera, like gaming, playing music, video editing, web browsing, online money transfer, controlling diverse set of peripherals. Look at the M4. Nearly a quarter of the chip is occupied by the GPU: 

GPU, huh?  Graphics Processing Unit?  You're right.  It would be stupid to think that there's anything in a camera that could use a graphics processing unit.  Things like web browsing and online money transfer are not done with dedicated hardware - they are done with general purpose CPU cores.  In context of a camera, they would run the operating system, display menus, etc.  Audio encoder/decoder ("playing music") are, in fact, useful in cameras.  Video editing?  Do you mean encoders and decoders for popular video formats?  Hmm.  Sure would be weird to put those in a camera.

1 hour ago, Eric Calabros said:

While smaller node for dedicated camera chip is always good news, the big portion of the heat is generated by moving electrons from point A to point B (Sensor to RAM, RAM to CPU, CPU to CFe card). So as long as resolution/frame rate war continues, we'll have heat issue no matter what. So a slim active cooling system should have higher priority than an expensive jump to smaller node. 

1) This is wrong.  Learn how things work before talking about them.  The amount of heat generated by "moving electrons" isn't a lot - otherwise, power lines and every electrical cord in the house would be too hot to touch.  People would need special coolers installed on the interconnects on their computers between the ram and the processor.  Every RV with a 30A receptacle would need several inches of asbestos by their house connection.  

2) Even if it were true, if all other factors are even, if every other system has been optimized as much as possible for efficiency, reducing the power draw of any one component is a win.

[PannySVHS]

Makes me want to give my S1H a run for 120fps HD 10bit at 3x crop 16mm eq heaven! Time to test the ibis for some  90mm Bokina challenge😁

[Emanuel]

Irresistible... < 3

I think I will have to buy it one of these days (what about you @SRV1981? ; ) but still waiting for overheating reports... I am used to give it a try intensively and I've already lost many shots because of it!

 

[Emanuel]

14 minutes ago, Emanuel said:

(...) but still waiting for overheating reports... I am used to give it a try intensively and I've already lost many shots because of it!

 

LOL : ) Many more wondering about the same...

source

[eatstoomuchjam]

I'll be picking mine up tomorrow.  Maybe at some point, I'll plug in an external drive and see how long it can record without overheating.  🙂

[Emanuel]

Looks like this guy is happy with:

A win over heat?

 

[eatstoomuchjam]

My magnetic filter holder and Angelbird CF reader/writer showed up today.  It's a bummer to have to take off the case to put on the filter holder, but there are worse things and the camera's pretty comfortable to hold with both stacked on.  It could be that I finally have a decent 4K pocket camera.  😉

[Emanuel]

On 9/20/2024 at 2:48 PM, eatstoomuchjam said:

I'll be picking mine up tomorrow.  Maybe at some point, I'll plug in an external drive and see how long it can record without overheating.  🙂

Any update on this front, mate? ; ) 4K 120fps?

[eatstoomuchjam]

No update. Gotta' find a time when I both remember to do it and am not worried about killing my battery.  🙂

[Emanuel]

Have you bought the Max? What colour?

[Emanuel]

I ask about the colour, wondering if a lighter one won't help with the heat, I guess?

This doubt on 4K/120fps overheating coupled to external drive is the last step before to buy my 1st iPhone ever... ;- )

[Emanuel]

18 minutes ago, Emanuel said:

I ask about the colour, wondering if a lighter one won't help with the heat, I guess?

This doubt on 4K/120fps overheating coupled to external drive is the last step before to buy my 1st iPhone ever... ;- )

I also wonder if both PRO and PRO Max won't offer different results to handle heat?

[eatstoomuchjam]

2 hours ago, Emanuel said:

Have you bought the Max? What colour?

No.  16 Pro with "natural titanium" color.  With the "Pro," I can still just barely use it with one hand when walking, etc.  With the Max, I definitely can not.  Maybe in my next life, I'll be born with bigger hands.

2 hours ago, Emanuel said:

I ask about the colour, wondering if a lighter one won't help with the heat, I guess?

Probably a bit if in sunlight.  Probably not much if out of it.

2 hours ago, Emanuel said:

This doubt on 4K/120fps overheating coupled to external drive is the last step before to buy my 1st iPhone ever... ;- )

How long do you need it to roll before stopping before you'd consider it?  😅

1 hour ago, Emanuel said:

I also wonder if both PRO and PRO Max won't offer different results to handle heat?

Probably somewhat, but I wouldn't expect it to be night and day.

[eatstoomuchjam]

I went for a walk in the park yesterday and took a few minutes to check things out.

It was about 21C here yesterday and I was by a river so the entire area was in the shade because it's down in a valley.  The setup is a filter adapter that connects by Magsafe and the Angelbird CF express adapter which connects with magnets to that.

I set it up on a rock and rolled 4kp120 ProRes in the Blackmagic Camera app with the 1x/24mm equiv lens.  Sometime between 4 and 8 minutes, the BM app started showing a warning on the record button which seems to indicate that the camera is heating up.  At 13 minutes, I got bored and stopped the recording.  The phone was a bit warm to the touch.  The CF Express adapter was warmer.  At least for me, I don't expect that there will be a lot of times when I need to roll 120 fps for 10+ minutes.  Detaching the reader from the phone would probably help with cooling.

After that, I played around a bit with the phone.  I really like the 5x lens (not sure if I like it enough to replace the 3x) - but I ran into a bug in the BM app where stabilization gets weird with the 5x or 0.5x lenses.  It jumps around a lot.  Hopefully they fix that soon.

[Emanuel]

On 9/25/2024 at 2:42 PM, eatstoomuchjam said:

How long do you need it to roll before stopping before you'd consider it?  😅  

Well, it's more to be open to have it without much restrictions.

When you're looking for that shot in specific, you can have the chance to roll if for long until to reach the magic moment we'll find the exact moment that will be gold for all the time spent and efforts invested there.

Some other day I was throughout 2 hours of a concert which led me to results I variably lost or not, which means in 10 possible millions, one of them is still a loss, no other 9 will bring it back.

If you follow what I mean here.

Yes, I am insatiable for shots ; ) Sometimes they make all the difference just in time for paycheck of people working with me.

 

 

On 9/25/2024 at 2:42 PM, eatstoomuchjam said:

No.  16 Pro with "natural titanium" color.  With the "Pro," I can still just barely use it with one hand when walking, etc.  With the Max, I definitely can not.  Maybe in my next life, I'll be born with bigger hands.

Well, I understand your fair concern and nothing I hadn't thought of it yet, really.

However TBH, comparing both options with my last purchases:

I don't think Max route will make such an inconvenience other than weight maybe? I found ASUS Zenfone 7 Pro a cumbersome brick for daily use but not really OnePlus 9 Pro : )

https://www.gsmarena.com/size-compare-3d.php3?&idPhone1=10806&idPhone2=13123

 

 

On 9/25/2024 at 2:42 PM, eatstoomuchjam said:

Probably somewhat, but I wouldn't expect it to be night and day.

I wonder though if the larger screen on Max model will bring more heat anyways or more room to dissipate it?

https://www.gsmarena.com/size-compare-3d.php3?&idPhone2=13123&idPhone1=13315

I usually don't like white stuff, black is always my fav but if I will buy this one here it will certainly be for handy 4K 120fps on mobile side. Some other day, that would have saved the night when teles stayed at concert door.

 

 

PS:

I have obviously followed up your most recent post now, so I do appreciate your findings...

Maybe you could try it up to the edge? Thanks BTW :- )

[eatstoomuchjam]

5 hours ago, Emanuel said:

When you're looking for that shot in specific, you can have the chance to roll if for long until to reach the magic moment we'll find the exact moment that will be gold for all the time spent and efforts invested there.

Some other day I was throughout 2 hours of a concert which led me to results I variably lost or not, which means in 10 possible millions, one of them is still a loss, no other 9 will bring it back.

 

Sure - one thing that might be nice in terms of not missing the moment is that now you can raise the phone and push a button and it will instantly load a photo/video app which is faster than it used to be.  But if you're worried about missing a moment, no amount of speed improvement will help.

5 hours ago, Emanuel said:

Well, I understand your fair concern and nothing I hadn't thought of it yet, really.

However TBH, comparing both options with my last purchases:

A lot of people prefer a bigger phone!  If I could, I'd take an even smaller phone.  If they put the 16 Pro guts in a 16 body, I'd probably take that instead.  The ideal would be a Zoolander-sized smartphone (maybe it could have a projector for the screen).  😀

 

5 hours ago, Emanuel said:

I wonder though if the larger screen on Max model will bring more heat anyways or more room to dissipate it?

You can turn down the screen brightness a lot if heat genearted by the screen is a concern.

5 hours ago, Emanuel said:

Maybe you could try it up to the edge? Thanks BTW :- )

I meant to try it the other time, but my attention span isn't so long.  It's the same thing that I realized during the brief time when I considered becoming a YouTube camera reviewer.  Maybe I'll try again today.  I could point it out the window or something and leave it while I work.  

[PannySVHS]

Hardly anyone has posted any involving videos in 120p here, which they have crafted themselves. Why that tristesse would change in 4K is beyond my comprehension. I couldn't feel less inspired to wonder about 120p in 4K than I feel by this thread. Decisive moment, seriously, where is it? Show me! Or maybe much rather not.

I really enjoyed @kye 's essay miniseries and screenshots from his journey with the micro cinema cam, travels with a cinematic eye and consciouness through and about the artistic journey. Stuff like that is my fuel to keep coming here.

But this thread is 4K of nothing and that in unbearable 120fps slomo hell. Grain of salt and two cents, so don't get too upset.:)

[kye]

6 hours ago, PannySVHS said:

Hardly anyone has posted any involving videos in 120p here, which they have crafted themselves. Why that tristesse would change in 4K is beyond my comprehension. I couldn't feel less inspired to wonder about 120p in 4K than I feel by this thread. Decisive moment, seriously, where is it? Show me! Or maybe much rather not.

I really enjoyed @kye 's essay miniseries and screenshots from his journey with the micro cinema cam, travels with a cinematic eye and consciouness through and about the artistic journey. Stuff like that is my fuel to keep coming here.

But this thread is 4K of nothing and that in unbearable 120fps slomo hell. Grain of salt and two cents, so don't get too upset.:)

If you start with the desired aesthetic and then ask yourself what the equipment and settings are that creates that aesthetic, then you quickly realise that anything above 24/25/30p is a specialist tool.  

For me, 60p conformed to 24/25/30p creates an aesthetic that is surreal.  If the subject motion is significant then it can pass for reality but through a highly intense emotional lens.  I've seen shots that were 60p but didn't look unnatural in situations of extreme grief, shock, and euphoria due to love, drugs, or adrenaline.  

The aesthetic of 120p conformed to 24/25/30p is absolutely into the territory of a special effect.  I filmed dozens of hours of footage from my kids sports games in 120p and am very familiar with the look, and it screams at the viewer that they're watching special effects footage.  This is appropriate for heavily stylised content such as fight scenes or extreme action shots that take place outside reality, for example movies that are set in someone's mind or in virtual reality etc.  120p doesn't align with our senses observing our reality, except perhaps if there was an incredible amount of drugs involved.

The other potential uses for 120p or slower is to see things that aren't noticeable to the naked eye.  Documentaries showing animals doing thing very quickly like frogs shooting their tongues at bugs, birds diving into water to catch fish etc.  This is a special effect but a useful one to extend our perception in time.  The Slowmo Guys on YT make great use of this.

The upgrade of a smartphone from 1080p120 to 4k120 is of almost zero practical use in film-making.  Discussion of it at length outside of a very narrow niche can only be academic or fetishistic.

[Emanuel]

15 hours ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

Sure - one thing that might be nice in terms of not missing the moment is that now you can raise the phone and push a button and it will instantly load a photo/video app which is faster than it used to be.

Indeed! And to me, that's a no-brainer in fact : )

 

15 hours ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

But if you're worried about missing a moment, no amount of speed improvement will help.

For that purpose, I find 4K 120fps great once we have the chance to let it record for ages up to let that shot enters...

[Emanuel]

7 hours ago, PannySVHS said:

Hardly anyone has posted any involving videos in 120p here, which they have crafted themselves. Why that tristesse would change in 4K is beyond my comprehension. I couldn't feel less inspired to wonder about 120p in 4K than I feel by this thread. Decisive moment, seriously, where is it? Show me! Or maybe much rather not.

Show me? Are you kidding me, Marty?

Something that really annoys me is not the way you express yourself but both:

The fact people, you included, in this occasion forget the way a camera serves you, IS NOT the way some other people have application for.

NOT everyone is willing to use a camera for a cinematic outcome...

 

And this coming from someone who has a full time career mainly based on cinematic results means, or should mean a bit, I guess : )

 

If there are people who come to online boards for keeping up the self-esteem they are unable to reach elsewhere, there are also people who have nothing to show off here or anywhere else. Hey, there's a whole world out there full of windows to show our work. And there's still who comes here to ONLY talk or share information, perspectives, experiences and that's it : )

But I understand you ask for a good reason. You struggle to understand why people can be interested on rolling a camera for 4K 120fps along hours if possible. And what special can happen with a particular shot.

If you had paid attention to a post of mine up there, you'd already have the example above-mentioned.

Music concerts as for instance. But could be sports for example.

High speed plenty of (high) resolution can give us that single shot (the case of stills for multiple usage as target but also stock footage, for example) and getting the paycheck...

 

The customary mantra of 1080p sucks whenever these kind of threads pop up.

One thing is discussing the 120fps aesthetics as @kye did -- part of the 1080p army called as military reinforcement LOL sorry mates!

Where I can even join the party... (most recently we had that infamous one on calling 24p outdated)

Some other thing is to infer because there's some kind of aesthetics we associate to filmmaking, no specialist tools (as @kye wisely called them up there BTW) are needed.

Like everyone needs to specifically focus on narrative or documentary motion picture forms, so no room for anything else : D

 

7 hours ago, PannySVHS said:

I really enjoyed @kye 's essay miniseries and screenshots from his journey with the micro cinema cam, travels with a cinematic eye and consciouness through and about the artistic journey. Stuff like that is my fuel to keep coming here.

And?

Are you the only one keep coming here?

Does a blonde girl exclude a brunette? ; )

 

7 hours ago, PannySVHS said:

But this thread is 4K of nothing and that in unbearable 120fps slomo hell. Grain of salt and two cents, so don't get too upset.:)

I cannot be upset at all : ) The same way I appreciate that "kye's essay miniseries and screenshots from his journey with the micro cinema cam", I don't buy any sort of elitist approach either.

That's the whole thing, I see about that sorta censorship or putting people outside of any discussion which may somewhat embarrass them.

Like there are the filmmakers and everything else.

I am in this filmmaking business for longer than 30 years now and something I can quote is Giuseppe Tornatore who came from outside this industry and once said something like this:

"Before I thought that in the filmmaking, there could only be good people, now I know only movies count!"

 

Don't like 120fps slomo hell?

Welcome to the club! : P

But it's not because people only get 120fps as slowmo purposes or the matter of HFR aethetics may bother my playground, I will refrain to see a different use for it.

 

Last but not least.

I find the most part of the posters here as freelance workers or amateurs.

No idea how many of us struggle with paychecks in the end of each month. Probably this is the question.

We live in times of media convergence.

Filmmaking is not as much independent or small as before.

Digital technology has brought a lot of competitive players who will operate with the most innovative resources you haven't had yet.

You have to look for a new range of market segments or die.

 

- EAG :- )