Canon R5 Mark II - User Experience

[herein2020]

I have been shooting with the Canon R5 Mark II for about two weeks now for various small projects, mostly just testing the camera out in the types of conditions in which I usually shoot; very hot, humid, run and gun with little to no control over the lighting or venue. I mostly shoot event work and work quite a bit with models and fashion as well. I plan on replacing my Canon R7 with the Canon R5 II as my hybrid run and gun camera. To fill that role it must have one usable mode that does not overheat, and must be reliable in less than ideal conditions. 

So below are my thoughts on the Canon R5 II so far, some bad, mostly good and possibly some of it was just due to me not fully getting used to the camera, so my opinions on some of the bad things may change over time as I get more familiar with the camera and hopefully as new firmware is released for it.

THE GOOD

• Ergonomics - As usual, Canon hits this one out of the park. The grip is even more comfortable, the dedicated photo/video switch is way better than fiddling with a custom function switch, and everything is pretty much exactly where I expect it to be. I do miss the thumbwheel around the joystick like the R7 has, it made changing the Aperture a little faster while keeping the camera steady, but the R7 was the only camera to have this so its not a huge loss.
• Video Quality - I tested everything from 8K60FPS to 4KSRAW to 4K HEVC S and it all looks good to me. I will probably use 4K30/60FPS HEVC S 90% of the time with 4KFine for interviews, and 4K30FPS HEVC S for long form content. I believe it will not overheat in that mode so that is another place where it will replace the R7.
• Dynamic Range - I don't pixel peep or use charts and graphs, I just get out and shoot; so far the dynamic range seems acceptable, not really more or less than other current cameras in my opinion. The one simple test that I do with each camera is have the sun directly behind the model and try to film her face without a fill light...basically the harshest possible scenario possible; and the R5II looked no different to me in that scenario than every other camera that I have tested.
• CLOG 2 - All I can say is wow....this to me is the biggest improvement in image quality that I have seen in any mirrorless Canon camera. I have always shot in CLOG3 because I was used to it and with the C70 I used CLOG3 because it had to match the R7. I had no idea CLOG2 could make such a big difference. The highlight roll off, colors, and overall image quality in difficult lighting conditions is pretty incredible when compared to CLOG3 out of the R5. Any camera can get a good image in ideal lighting conditions, the real test is harsh lighting, highlight clipping, and highlight roll off, and with CLOG2 the camera excels in these situations. This one feature alone makes it hard to compare IQ out of the R5II vs other Canon mirrorless cameras; I can't tell if the sensor's DR is that much better, if its CLOG2 doing the heavy lifting, or both; but I am definitely satisfied with the image quality.
• Viewfinder/Backscreen - Both seemed good to me, I still to this day prefer my OVF in my 5D4 vs any mirrorless EVF, but that's just me. The EVF in the R5II seems acceptable as EVF's go, and the backscreen was easy to see regardless of the lighting.
• Dual Slot Recording - Of course the R5II can record to dual slots but only for a few modes due to the data rate limitations of SD cards. The main modes that I will use; 4K30/60FPS HEVC both can write to the SD card so for most of my work, I will have redundancy. One nice feature is that even when shooting video that can only record to the CFE card, the camera can be set to still save images to both cards.
• Photography Features - I don't shoot sports so I don't really care about all of the new AF settings, I did test photography as well though and it performed exactly as expected. For me, there's nothing really new in this area that interests me; it triggered my remote flashes when it was supposed to, triggered the hotshoe flash properly and reliably, and overall felt like the R5 and every other Canon mirrorless camera.
• Auto Focus - It has so many AF modes that I need to practice more in this area for video. I found myself switching modes more than I expected during the test shoots because the AF wasn't working the way I needed. Not the camera's fault, but just due to the sheer volume of settings, I need to get better at figuring out what mode is best for the situation.
• Low Light - Haven't done almost any testing with this yet, but a second native ISO at 4000 is perfect and is the most useful place for a second ISO. I believe this second native ISO is only for video though, so it is a little murky to me what happens to noise when you set it to 4000ISO for photography. I will be shooting a lowlight event this coming weekend so I will do some more testing then.

So long story short, the Canon RII predictably builds on the R5 with the biggest surprise for me being CLOG2. After using the R5 and R7 I believe it fix the small things that I did not like about the R7 (no dual native ISO) and add things I didn't even know I was missing (4K SRAW, CLOG2, etc.). 

THE BAD

• Firmware Bugs - I really hope these things are fixable via a FW update, but at this point I almost feel like I need to bring a backup camera to shoots. I never felt that way even with FW 1.0 with the R7. 
  • Screen Shuts Off Video Display - This one is bad.....3x now the back screen has gone black and will not show the video. It will show all of the configuration data on the screen such as WFM and histogram, but no video feed. If I switch to photography the display comes back, switch back to video there is no feed. The sensor is still working because the histogram shows changes when moving the camera around, but it will not display on the back screen. The only fix for this so far is to restart it.
  • Stops Communicating with Lens - This happened twice for me. The Aperture read F00 and I had no Aperture or AF. This was with my Meike vND adapter and an EF lens. I tried changing EF lenses, removing the adapter then reinstalling it, etc. The only thing that fixed it was putting on my one RF lens then taking it off and putting back on the adapter. Of course  I will get no help from Canon because the adapter is a 3rd party adapter.....not good.
  • Lost Settings - It has only done this one so far but it reverted some of my settings back to their default settings after a restart.
• IBIS - Compared to my R7, the IBIS in the R5II is not as good. Its correction is very harsh when it reaches the end of its travel, and it jerks the image back to the center of the IBIS. If you do not reach the end of its travel then it is fine, but if you try walking for example, no matter how carefully you walk, the IBIS will jerk the image around instead of slowly correcting back to center. My Smallrig cage is on order, I am hoping when I get it installed that I will have better control over the camera when shooting handheld.
• Battery Life - The battery life is noticeably worse than the R7. I went through 2 batteries shooting short clips with the camera mostly turned off in between. I was shooting 8K/4K RAW/Compressed up to 120FPS but they were still all pretty short. My battery life could have been so bad because I set my EVF to smooth, but I barely used the EVF because I was shooting video.
• Overheating - The overheating warning came on when shooting 4KFine. I was shooting approximately 4 or 5 very short 30s clips and two bars showed up and it looked like it was going to climb pretty quickly. The ambient temps were around 90 degrees Fahrenheit and 80% humidity. No other mode displayed the warning for the rest of the day.
• Electronic Level - Still a pet peeve of mine, it still disappears while recording.
• 4KSRAW - This codec has some major moiré issues that are not fixable in post. If the scene has nothing that will bring it out then the mode is fine, but it definitely has major issues. On a production shoot I don't think I would ever trust this mode for paying work.

THE ODD

The camera also has some weird quirks that take some getting used to. Once you know them and if you can remember them in the middle of a shoot then you are ok, but they are annoying nonetheless.

• Histogram - The histogram will only display if Exposure Simulation is turned on. I do not like exposure simulation in certain lowlight situations so turning it off means I lose the histogram.
• WFM - It is great that they included the WFM, but you can't move it, you can't resize it, and you can't turn it off/on via a button or even via a direct option in the Favorites menu. 
• Aspect Ratio Bars - They finally included this in the R5II, but it is only visible on the backscreen, so if you are shooting photos with the EVF you are out of luck. The Panasonic S5 had this years ago and displayed them in both places.
• 8K Compressed - 8K Compressed options disappear from the list if the recording option is not set to CFE only. Instead of just greying it out and telling you that when you try to use it, it completely disappears.  Even odder, 8K RAW does not disappear and it tells you that you must use the CFE card only for recording.
• 8K60FPS - This is not documented clearly anywhere I have seen, but 8K60FPS is only an option if you pick compressed raw. I am fine with that, 8K is massive as it is, but I never saw the advertising materials mention 8K60FPS RAW is compressed raw only

CONCLUSION

If the bugs get worked out this is a worthy successor to the R7 for me. The image quality and features are what I expected when getting the camera.  The bugs though really make it hard to trust this camera, it stopped communicating with the lens after a 1.5hr drive to a shoot that could only be done that day.....if I had not brought along my RF70-200 lens (which I usually don't for a video shoot), I may have been unable to get the camera working again...not a good feeling after buying a $4300 camera.

IN CASE YOU MISSED IT

Here are my reviews for:

The S5 - Panasonic S5 User Experience

The C70 - Canon C70 User Experience

BONUS

I shot a camera test video with some local models and exotic cars to put the camera through its paces. This is the way that I will be using the camera every single day so that's how I tested it....no control over nature, lighting, venue setup, etc. For this shoot I used the Meike vND RF to EF adapter, Sigma EF 50mm F1.4, Canon EF 24-70mm F2.8, and the Canon RF70-200 F2.8. Mostly handheld, but I did use a gimbal for some of the longer walking shots.

 

[ntblowz]

Thanks for the write up, It does look like current R5II user are still beta testing for Canon. I don't remember my 1st release R5 have this much problem except the fake overheating timer.

 

[eatstoomuchjam]

3 hours ago, herein2020 said:

8K60FPS - This is not documented clearly anywhere I have seen, but 8K60FPS is only an option if you pick compressed raw. I am fine with that, 8K is massive as it is, but I never saw the advertising materials mention 8K60FPS RAW is compressed raw only

When you say compressed raw, you mean raw LT, right?  I hadn't heard anything about fully uncompressed raw - just more compressed (lt) and less compressed (st) formats.  😄

[gt3rs]

Really nice video. 

Your summary is quite in line with mine that I posted here: https://www.eoshd.com/comments/topic/88441-canon-r5-mark-ii-firmware-problems/?do=findComment&comment=754082

I had the same black screen bug, in my case only at 200fps but now that I think about it is also the only mode that I did shoot not in RAW. Seems a fixable firmware bug. Same for the annoying wfm.
The lens issue never happened to me (so far), but I used only RF lenses no adapter: 100-300 2.8 (naked, 1.4x, 2x), 28-70 F2, 16 2.8, 14-35 4. Did you check if the contacts of the adapter are good and clean?

In a few presses release it was mentioned that 8k 50/60 is only RAW light (not sure why somebody would use RAW (maybe for VFX)

I'm happy to see that I was not dreaming about the better quality of CLog2. I'm just editing right now and the difference between R5c CLog3 and R5 II Clog2 is quite visible and for me is also easier to expose correctly.

 

[herein2020]

3 hours ago, ntblowz said:

Thanks for the write up, It does look like current R5II user are still beta testing for Canon. I don't remember my 1st release R5 have this much problem except the fake overheating timer.

 

I did not get the R5 until about 2yrs and 3 FW updates later so I haven't had a single problem with it. I also mostly shoot hybrid shoots, so the R7 has actually been my main camera for the past two years. The R7 has been flawless, I think one lockup in 2yrs, overheating is very predictable (4K Fine after 48min) and no overheating in any other mode. It has been a real workhorse for me. I don't even think I have ever updated its FW, not even sure if it has newer FW. With the R5II I can't wait for some kind of new FW to come out.

1 hour ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

When you say compressed raw, you mean raw LT, right?  I hadn't heard anything about fully uncompressed raw - just more compressed (lt) and less compressed (st) formats.  😄

I guess it is raw LT/Light, in the C70 it actually says raw LT and ST, in the R5II you have to really study the whole menu to figure out what mode you are in. The menu system for the codecs is a complete mess, I thought I understood it pretty well but during the shoots in the blazing heat, with people waiting on the take, the settings felt like they were all over the place. 

For regular shoots I will just stick to 4K30FPS and 4K60FPS HEVC S, so it will be simpler vs me testing many different modes at once.

1 hour ago, gt3rs said:

Really nice video. 

Your summary is quite in line with mine that I posted here: https://www.eoshd.com/comments/topic/88441-canon-r5-mark-ii-firmware-problems/?do=findComment&comment=754082

 

You are right, they are very close.

1 hour ago, gt3rs said:

I had the same black screen bug, in my case only at 200fps but now that I think about it is also the only mode that I did shoot not in RAW. Seems a fixable firmware bug. Same for the annoying wfm.
The lens issue never happened to me (so far), but I used only RF lenses no adapter: 100-300 2.8 (naked, 1.4x, 2x), 28-70 F2, 16 2.8, 14-35 4. Did you check if the contacts of the adapter are good and clean?

In a few presses release it was mentioned that 8k 50/60 is only RAW light (not sure why somebody would use RAW (maybe for VFX)

Hopefully you open a CPS case for the black screen, I am going to open one as well, if people don't report these problems we won't get fixes. I don't remember what mode I was in when I got the black screen, I was going through so many modes and had limited time that I have no idea if I was in RAW or HEVC or RAW LT.

The adapter I have had for over 2yrs mounted to the R7, it has been flawless so I know its not the adapter or contacts unless the contacts on the R5II were dirty which I also highly doubt. I am very careful when changing lenses and rarely ever remove the adapter.  I do hope it was just dirt or maybe not seated properly. The second time it happened I just reseated it and it started working again....just odd to have this problem twice in 3 shoots vs none in 2yrs+ with the R7.

 

1 hour ago, gt3rs said:

I'm happy to see that I was not dreaming about the better quality of CLog2. I'm just editing right now and the difference between R5c CLog3 and R5 II Clog2 is quite visible and for me is also easier to expose correctly.

I did have to relearn how to expose with CLOG2, in my first test I was so over exposed that I clipped everything because I was used to CLOG3, with CLOG2 I think it is easier as well, no more guessing how much "over" you need to be, just use the WFM and false color if you have the time, if not then just the WFM. For my type of work, I don't have time to use False Color usually, so I just use the WFM and the back screen view.

For more controlled scenarios like interviews, false color is definitely going to be nice to have.

[herein2020]

13 hours ago, gt3rs said:

I had the same black screen bug, in my case only at 200fps but now that I think about it is also the only mode that I did shoot not in RAW. 

I hope you open a CPS case, I just got a moronic response from Canon tech support saying to cycle through the modes using the Info button to get the back screen to display again. Of course, that was the first thing I tried along with making sure that the eye sensor was not blocked. The more of us that report it, the more likely it is to get fixed.

[gt3rs]

In my case when I press the record button the video feed goes black but all the info items on the screen are still visible. Is like filming with the lens cap on, so it seems different than your case.

I had to pull the battery but I was in an hurry. 

I’m submitting the case to CPS

 

[gt3rs]

Correction it seems the same and many have this issue:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4773815

I will try the above settings to see if it happens again. 

[BTM_Pix]

Excellent report.

Thanks for taking the time.

[herein2020]

4 hours ago, gt3rs said:

Correction it seems the same and many have this issue:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4773815

I will try the above settings to see if it happens again. 

That is a good find, I think it is all related. I tried power cycling a few times today but it would not do it, I am trying to recreate the issue so that I can create a video of the problem to send to Canon. 

The two times it happened to me I hadn't pressed record yet. Also, switching to photo mode restored the back screen, but it went black again when I switched back to video.

[herein2020]

Ok,

I am reaching the point to where I have to say this camera is not ready for commercial production use. I had a full day commercial photo/video shoot and I made it through the shoot but I have lost all trust in the camera.

• Black Screen - this happened again on the shoot, pretty much every shoot it happens once. The video will not display only the photo back screen will display. This time I took a picture of it.
• Playback - After taking a picture then hitting playback it randomly will not show the last image taken, it will usually show the one before that or a random one, very annoying to keep asking the talent to pose again because I have no idea if the last image was a keeper.
• Auto Focus - This is the second shoot where it stops focusing. AF stops working at least for video and I have to restart the camera.

 

[eatstoomuchjam]

Canon Rumors mentioned today that a firmware update was expected this month.  Canon should also send a check to you for kindly beta testing their camera for them.

[herein2020]

59 minutes ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

Canon Rumors mentioned today that a firmware update was expected this month.  Canon should also send a check to you for kindly beta testing their camera for them.

Yes I saw that as well. CPS told me its a HW issue and I need to send in the camera....I'll wait until the FW update to see if things improve. 

It's insane to me that issues this major and this common made it through to even v1.0 of the FW.

[gt3rs]

9 hours ago, herein2020 said:

Yes I saw that as well. CPS told me its a HW issue and I need to send in the camera....I'll wait until the FW update to see if things improve. 

It's insane to me that issues this major and this common made it through to even v1.0 of the FW.

HW issue? It seems a typical buffer corruption issue... purely SW... but let see.... The picture that you posted is what happens to me, so far only in 200fps but I do shoot mostly in RAW.

AF never stopped in my case, and I shoot 3 TB of video so far, all using AF. Was it with the adapter or RF? If it is with the adapter, then it seems to have an issue with it as first the aperture and now the AF both that needs camera+adapter+lens communication. 

[gt3rs]

From Canon rumors so it is a rumors 😉

 

Update: Canon has started to install firmware v.1.0.1 on serviced Canon EOS R5 Mark II camera bodies. This update looks like it addresses an issue with the screen going green when shooting video.

[herein2020]

17 minutes ago, gt3rs said:

From Canon rumors so it is a rumors 😉

 

Update: Canon has started to install firmware v.1.0.1 on serviced Canon EOS R5 Mark II camera bodies. This update looks like it addresses an issue with the screen going green when shooting video.

I sent Canon a video of the problem and they have stated that it is an electrical HW defect, I am working with my retailer to either return it or exchange it. I am fortunately still within the 30 day window. I strongly recommend that if you can return or exchange yours that you do so before it is too late or you will need to file a warranty claim later if FW can't fix it.

If I wait to see if the new FW update fixes it, I will be past my return window. I think after an exchange the 30 day return window resets so I will have peace of mind from that regards, unless of course the new one is worse.

[Andrew Reid]

14 hours ago, herein2020 said:

Ok,

I am reaching the point to where I have to say this camera is not ready for commercial production use. I had a full day commercial photo/video shoot and I made it through the shoot but I have lost all trust in the camera.

• Black Screen - this happened again on the shoot, pretty much every shoot it happens once. The video will not display only the photo back screen will display. This time I took a picture of it.
• Playback - After taking a picture then hitting playback it randomly will not show the last image taken, it will usually show the one before that or a random one, very annoying to keep asking the talent to pose again because I have no idea if the last image was a keeper.
• Auto Focus - This is the second shoot where it stops focusing. AF stops working at least for video and I have to restart the camera.

 

Canon are a different company to who they used to be, they are closer to a Chinese OEM manufacturer now than a Japanese industrial giant in my opinion.

How is it that such a mature platform as EOS R which launched in 2018 is having not-fit-for-purpose issues like this in 2024, when Canon has so many decades of experience in camera hardware to build on?

It is because the engineering core of the company in my opinion has been gutted by accountants and clueless managers prompted from marketing areas, along with their best people retiring.

You only have to pick up the EOS R5 series or R6 to feel from the look and finish of the materials that they are cutting major corners inside and out.

[gt3rs]

I do not really agree the worst offender was the 1D III, 3 trips to Canon to get it fix....and really never got fixed. Not sure that at that time it was better.... and it was the top of the line camera.
 

[Andrew Reid]

What was wrong with it...  mechanical issue?

[gt3rs]

1 minute ago, Andrew Reid said:

What was wrong with it...  mechanical issue?

AF not reliable, they changed the AF chip twice,  one was a recall, but nothing really improved.
I also had the mirror box replaced because it was getting stuck in hot temperatures... it was 1 week old, sent in twice as these stupid support people ignored my note to warm the camera to 30 degrees. At the end I traveled there at put it on a radiation and show the issue. CPS gave me a 1Dn loan until it was fixed.

In 20 years of Canon is the only issue that required me to send it in but I was really frustrated. 

On the R5 II, I don't believe the green screen issue is HW it sounds typical of buffer bugs (Resolve had similar issues in the past). Getting a replacement now it will most probably have the same HW. It is really widespread the issue so either is FW or is a recall.