Canon R5 Mark II - User Experience

[zerocool22]

On 9/16/2024 at 7:20 PM, herein2020 said:

I have been shooting with the Canon R5 Mark II for about two weeks now for various small projects, mostly just testing the camera out in the types of conditions in which I usually shoot; very hot, humid, run and gun with little to no control over the lighting or venue. I mostly shoot event work and work quite a bit with models and fashion as well. I plan on replacing my Canon R7 with the Canon R5 II as my hybrid run and gun camera. To fill that role it must have one usable mode that does not overheat, and must be reliable in less than ideal conditions. 

So below are my thoughts on the Canon R5 II so far, some bad, mostly good and possibly some of it was just due to me not fully getting used to the camera, so my opinions on some of the bad things may change over time as I get more familiar with the camera and hopefully as new firmware is released for it.

THE GOOD

• Ergonomics - As usual, Canon hits this one out of the park. The grip is even more comfortable, the dedicated photo/video switch is way better than fiddling with a custom function switch, and everything is pretty much exactly where I expect it to be. I do miss the thumbwheel around the joystick like the R7 has, it made changing the Aperture a little faster while keeping the camera steady, but the R7 was the only camera to have this so its not a huge loss.
• Video Quality - I tested everything from 8K60FPS to 4KSRAW to 4K HEVC S and it all looks good to me. I will probably use 4K30/60FPS HEVC S 90% of the time with 4KFine for interviews, and 4K30FPS HEVC S for long form content. I believe it will not overheat in that mode so that is another place where it will replace the R7.
• Dynamic Range - I don't pixel peep or use charts and graphs, I just get out and shoot; so far the dynamic range seems acceptable, not really more or less than other current cameras in my opinion. The one simple test that I do with each camera is have the sun directly behind the model and try to film her face without a fill light...basically the harshest possible scenario possible; and the R5II looked no different to me in that scenario than every other camera that I have tested.
• CLOG 2 - All I can say is wow....this to me is the biggest improvement in image quality that I have seen in any mirrorless Canon camera. I have always shot in CLOG3 because I was used to it and with the C70 I used CLOG3 because it had to match the R7. I had no idea CLOG2 could make such a big difference. The highlight roll off, colors, and overall image quality in difficult lighting conditions is pretty incredible when compared to CLOG3 out of the R5. Any camera can get a good image in ideal lighting conditions, the real test is harsh lighting, highlight clipping, and highlight roll off, and with CLOG2 the camera excels in these situations. This one feature alone makes it hard to compare IQ out of the R5II vs other Canon mirrorless cameras; I can't tell if the sensor's DR is that much better, if its CLOG2 doing the heavy lifting, or both; but I am definitely satisfied with the image quality.
• Viewfinder/Backscreen - Both seemed good to me, I still to this day prefer my OVF in my 5D4 vs any mirrorless EVF, but that's just me. The EVF in the R5II seems acceptable as EVF's go, and the backscreen was easy to see regardless of the lighting.
• Dual Slot Recording - Of course the R5II can record to dual slots but only for a few modes due to the data rate limitations of SD cards. The main modes that I will use; 4K30/60FPS HEVC both can write to the SD card so for most of my work, I will have redundancy. One nice feature is that even when shooting video that can only record to the CFE card, the camera can be set to still save images to both cards.
• Photography Features - I don't shoot sports so I don't really care about all of the new AF settings, I did test photography as well though and it performed exactly as expected. For me, there's nothing really new in this area that interests me; it triggered my remote flashes when it was supposed to, triggered the hotshoe flash properly and reliably, and overall felt like the R5 and every other Canon mirrorless camera.
• Auto Focus - It has so many AF modes that I need to practice more in this area for video. I found myself switching modes more than I expected during the test shoots because the AF wasn't working the way I needed. Not the camera's fault, but just due to the sheer volume of settings, I need to get better at figuring out what mode is best for the situation.
• Low Light - Haven't done almost any testing with this yet, but a second native ISO at 4000 is perfect and is the most useful place for a second ISO. I believe this second native ISO is only for video though, so it is a little murky to me what happens to noise when you set it to 4000ISO for photography. I will be shooting a lowlight event this coming weekend so I will do some more testing then.

So long story short, the Canon RII predictably builds on the R5 with the biggest surprise for me being CLOG2. After using the R5 and R7 I believe it fix the small things that I did not like about the R7 (no dual native ISO) and add things I didn't even know I was missing (4K SRAW, CLOG2, etc.). 

THE BAD

• Firmware Bugs - I really hope these things are fixable via a FW update, but at this point I almost feel like I need to bring a backup camera to shoots. I never felt that way even with FW 1.0 with the R7. 
  • Screen Shuts Off Video Display - This one is bad.....3x now the back screen has gone black and will not show the video. It will show all of the configuration data on the screen such as WFM and histogram, but no video feed. If I switch to photography the display comes back, switch back to video there is no feed. The sensor is still working because the histogram shows changes when moving the camera around, but it will not display on the back screen. The only fix for this so far is to restart it.
  • Stops Communicating with Lens - This happened twice for me. The Aperture read F00 and I had no Aperture or AF. This was with my Meike vND adapter and an EF lens. I tried changing EF lenses, removing the adapter then reinstalling it, etc. The only thing that fixed it was putting on my one RF lens then taking it off and putting back on the adapter. Of course  I will get no help from Canon because the adapter is a 3rd party adapter.....not good.
  • Lost Settings - It has only done this one so far but it reverted some of my settings back to their default settings after a restart.
• IBIS - Compared to my R7, the IBIS in the R5II is not as good. Its correction is very harsh when it reaches the end of its travel, and it jerks the image back to the center of the IBIS. If you do not reach the end of its travel then it is fine, but if you try walking for example, no matter how carefully you walk, the IBIS will jerk the image around instead of slowly correcting back to center. My Smallrig cage is on order, I am hoping when I get it installed that I will have better control over the camera when shooting handheld.
• Battery Life - The battery life is noticeably worse than the R7. I went through 2 batteries shooting short clips with the camera mostly turned off in between. I was shooting 8K/4K RAW/Compressed up to 120FPS but they were still all pretty short. My battery life could have been so bad because I set my EVF to smooth, but I barely used the EVF because I was shooting video.
• Overheating - The overheating warning came on when shooting 4KFine. I was shooting approximately 4 or 5 very short 30s clips and two bars showed up and it looked like it was going to climb pretty quickly. The ambient temps were around 90 degrees Fahrenheit and 80% humidity. No other mode displayed the warning for the rest of the day.
• Electronic Level - Still a pet peeve of mine, it still disappears while recording.
• 4KSRAW - This codec has some major moiré issues that are not fixable in post. If the scene has nothing that will bring it out then the mode is fine, but it definitely has major issues. On a production shoot I don't think I would ever trust this mode for paying work.

THE ODD

The camera also has some weird quirks that take some getting used to. Once you know them and if you can remember them in the middle of a shoot then you are ok, but they are annoying nonetheless.

• Histogram - The histogram will only display if Exposure Simulation is turned on. I do not like exposure simulation in certain lowlight situations so turning it off means I lose the histogram.
• WFM - It is great that they included the WFM, but you can't move it, you can't resize it, and you can't turn it off/on via a button or even via a direct option in the Favorites menu. 
• Aspect Ratio Bars - They finally included this in the R5II, but it is only visible on the backscreen, so if you are shooting photos with the EVF you are out of luck. The Panasonic S5 had this years ago and displayed them in both places.
• 8K Compressed - 8K Compressed options disappear from the list if the recording option is not set to CFE only. Instead of just greying it out and telling you that when you try to use it, it completely disappears.  Even odder, 8K RAW does not disappear and it tells you that you must use the CFE card only for recording.
• 8K60FPS - This is not documented clearly anywhere I have seen, but 8K60FPS is only an option if you pick compressed raw. I am fine with that, 8K is massive as it is, but I never saw the advertising materials mention 8K60FPS RAW is compressed raw only

CONCLUSION

If the bugs get worked out this is a worthy successor to the R7 for me. The image quality and features are what I expected when getting the camera.  The bugs though really make it hard to trust this camera, it stopped communicating with the lens after a 1.5hr drive to a shoot that could only be done that day.....if I had not brought along my RF70-200 lens (which I usually don't for a video shoot), I may have been unable to get the camera working again...not a good feeling after buying a $4300 camera.

IN CASE YOU MISSED IT

Here are my reviews for:

The S5 - Panasonic S5 User Experience

The C70 - Canon C70 User Experience

BONUS

I shot a camera test video with some local models and exotic cars to put the camera through its paces. This is the way that I will be using the camera every single day so that's how I tested it....no control over nature, lighting, venue setup, etc. For this shoot I used the Meike vND RF to EF adapter, Sigma EF 50mm F1.4, Canon EF 24-70mm F2.8, and the Canon RF70-200 F2.8. Mostly handheld, but I did use a gimbal for some of the longer walking shots.

 

What camera would you pick video IQ wise? The r5 ii or your c70?

What about run and gun? 

 

Thanks

[gt3rs]

21 hours ago, Django said:

Hey have you read my questions above? Really curious about your take on 4K60p SRAW. I've played with test footage and found that reducing the default sharpness setting from 10 to under 3 seems to get rid of any moiré issues and still leaves a much more detailed image than the soft HEVC 4K60p. I'm overall quite impressed with the R5 mk2 footage I've downloaded, especially Clog2. Skin tones are so much more natural and DR a lot less crushed than every Clog3 footage I've had previously. Gives a way more filmic image and nuance to grading. That said R5C in RAW does give Clog2 option although I haven't played with that footage. Anything else you miss or recommend vs R5C (aside from WFM on/off!)?

R5 II RAW CLog2 is a better image than R5c RAW CLog2. Imo on the R5c CLog2 does not really give you anything more than Clog3 other than matching to other Clog2 cameras.

It wasn't me testing out SRAW, I'm a big fan of 8k so I never used SRAW and probably will not if future, but if they would add SRAW for 4k 120 fps and 2k 240fps then I will be super happy. 

For my usage (sports, actions) the AF is a quantum leap compared to both R5 and R5c but if you do more "normal" stuff not sure it makes such a difference.

I really only miss the WFM on/off but happy to trade this with the C1, C2 and C3 that is such a time saver for me especially for going from normal to HFR. I do miss a bit but not a big issue peaking while AF on.... as it helps me judging if the AF is doing his work. The movie playback on the R5c is also a bit nicer but are really small details. 

If you shoot RAW the R5c battery is still miserable as also when you are not shooting is consuming the same amount. Just one recurring example, Ice Hockey match, camera is on for 1.5h in 3x30min periods and I record around 10-12 min per period, R5 II I have 50% battery left, R5c I need to change battery at least once.

Is the R5 II better than the R5c, for my use absolutely. Is it worth the difference in price used R5c vs new R5 II? It is a harder question to answer as the R5c is very capable and now at a good price and with the new battery it solves the biggest issue that I had.



 

[Django]

3 hours ago, gt3rs said:

R5 II RAW CLog2 is a better image than R5c RAW CLog2. Imo on the R5c CLog2 does not really give you anything more than Clog3 other than matching to other Clog2 cameras.

Yeah Josh Sattin did a 8K RAW Clog2 comparison test in between both and the R5C has significantly more noise, color shift and banding issues, so it seems you're right!

3 hours ago, gt3rs said:

It wasn't me testing out SRAW, I'm a big fan of 8k so I never used SRAW and probably will not if future, but if they would add SRAW for 4k 120 fps and 2k 240fps then I will be super happy. 

My bad it was herein2020. SRAW 4K is interesting to me as it is a downsampled from 8K RAW so it gives really sharp 4K with cropping possibility but much smaller file sizes and easier project management. I'd probably use it quite a bit with 8K RAW for high-end projects.

3 hours ago, gt3rs said:

For my usage (sports, actions) the AF is a quantum leap compared to both R5 and R5c but if you do more "normal" stuff not sure it makes such a difference.

Yeah the AF appears next-level, not sure  if the R5 ii has face-only AF from the cine line though?

3 hours ago, gt3rs said:

If you shoot RAW the R5c battery is still miserable as also when you are not shooting is consuming the same amount. Just one recurring example, Ice Hockey match, camera is on for 1.5h in 3x30min periods and I record around 10-12 min per period, R5 II I have 50% battery left, R5c I need to change battery at least once.

Interesting so R5C battery still sucks when shooting RAW huh? But I guess the upside is no overheating.

 

3 hours ago, gt3rs said:

Is the R5 II better than the R5c, for my use absolutely. Is it worth the difference in price used R5c vs new R5 II? It is a harder question to answer as the R5c is very capable and now at a good price and with the new battery it solves the biggest issue that I had.

Yeah its really hard for me to choose, the R5C is almost half the price and I could finance a nice RF lens like the 24-70mm f2.8 IS with the saved funds. Losing IBIS is my biggest concern but gaining all the video centric features like shutter angle, LUT baking, S35/S16 modes, the new digi teleconverter cropping etc makes it really tempting. I will probably rarely shoot 8K60 so maybe R5C is a good option with maybe an R5 mk2 further down the line as second body?

[zerocool22]

1 hour ago, Django said:

Yeah Josh Sattin did a 8K RAW Clog2 comparison test in between both and the R5C has significantly more noise, color shift and banding issues, so it seems you're right!

My bad it was herein2020. SRAW 4K is interesting to me as it is a downsampled from 8K RAW so it gives really sharp 4K with cropping possibility but much smaller file sizes and easier project management. I'd probably use it quite a bit with 8K RAW for high-end projects.

Yeah the AF appears next-level, not sure  if the R5 ii has face-only AF from the cine line though?

Interesting so R5C battery still sucks when shooting RAW huh? But I guess the upside is no overheating.

 

Yeah its really hard for me to choose, the R5C is almost half the price and I could finance a nice RF lens like the 24-70mm f2.8 IS with the saved funds. Losing IBIS is my biggest concern but gaining all the video centric features like shutter angle, LUT baking, S35/S16 modes, the new digi teleconverter cropping etc makes it really tempting. I will probably rarely shoot 8K60 so maybe R5C is a good option with maybe an R5 mk2 further down the line as second body?

A c70 looks way better then a R5 or r5c (have not seen a comparison with r5 ii). But I tempted to buy one, and its cheaperbused as well. Allthough i like the form factor of a r5 better + it can take good photos.

 

Then again I was comparing it with an arri alexa and c500 ii. And both looked better then a c70. But more expensive and heavier/bulkier.

[Django]

3 hours ago, zerocool22 said:

A c70 looks way better then a R5 or r5c (have not seen a comparison with r5 ii). But I tempted to buy one, and its cheaperbused as well. Allthough i like the form factor of a r5 better + it can take good photos.

 

Then again I was comparing it with an arri alexa and c500 ii. And both looked better than a c70. But more expensive and heavier/bulkier.

C70 is great but I’m a FF hybrid shooter. I wanna invest in RF lenses (24-70mm f2.8, 35mm 1.4 VCM) so FF makes a lot more sense. Plus with 8K/45MP resolution you have great cropping power. The 35mm prime can become a 50mm & 105mm at a flick of a button on R5C. That’s great because I don’t like changing lenses on run & gun shoots. The new teleconverter feature is what’s pushing me towards R5C at the moment.
 

[gt3rs]

15 hours ago, Django said:

Yeah the AF appears next-level, not sure  if the R5 ii has face-only AF from the cine line though?

 

Yes, R5 II has the setting for Face priority and Face only. In term of AF (other than having peeking on while AF is on) R5 II can do all the R5c and much more. One of the key features that I use a lot is that you can size and position your AF area where you want. Another one is that you can load a face of the person you want to AF on and it works quite well, at first I thought it was a gimmick but in a group of people it works quite well.