Nikon thinks Smartphones helped sales

[SRV1981]

https://petapixel.com/2024/09/16/nikon-president-says-smartphones-may-drive-future-camera-sales/

[ND64]

The correct translation:

"Smartphone makers overplayed their hand in image processing in such an aggressive approach that some of their users came to this conclusion that the only way to get better image is to have a camera with bigger sensor".

[Emanuel]

With smartphones I think we are just going down the hill... Never people shot so bad without any clue what aesthetics is about, as happens nowadays. It's just going to social media and take a look on selfies today... The perspective of the cow as Hitchcock called it.

Shooters need to know about art history and photography technique to begin with, not automatic BS and odd menus with all those effects aka "filters", LUTs, whatever and fancy AI crap just meaningless.

- EAG :- )

[Emanuel]

6 minutes ago, Emanuel said:

The perspective of the cow as Hitchcock called it.

Avatar culture is no culture.

[Andrew Reid]

On 9/17/2024 at 8:01 AM, Eric Calabros said:

The correct translation:

"Smartphone makers overplayed their hand in image processing in such an aggressive approach that some of their users came to this conclusion that the only way to get better image is to have a camera with bigger sensor".

This is part of the reason Gen-Z are turning to old compact digicams, for a less processed look.

The HDR smartphone look has become a boring cliche.

I shoot RAW on my iPhone 15 Pro Max to get past the heavy handed processing.

But Apple have always been better at doing realism in their processing than the Chinese smartphone makers, so by far not the worst offender!

If Nikon is right and smartphones are leading into more camera sales, could we see the return of smaller high-end compacts?

[SRV1981]

I found the article silly. There’s no data or stats to support this. 

[Ilkka Nissila]

19 hours ago, SRV1981 said:

I found the article silly. There’s no data or stats to support this. 

Manufacturers do their own market research which they don't typically publish at least not verbatim.

I don't see anything too illogical or controversial about the claims made by Nikon in the interview. Nikon's market share has declined to about 1/3 of what it was at its peak 10+ years ago, and the overall camera market has declined to 1/20 of peak volumes. Nikon's improved high-end camera sales can be explained by two possibilities: one is that Nikon's high-end cameras have become relatively more competitive and thus sell better than expected from their overall market share, or that the increased total camera market (including smartphones) now produces more people who buy high-end cameras, including Nikon's. There are specific examples of the influence of social media on camera sales, including the X100V/VI.

 

I am not sure if Nikon will make a high-end compact camera, they tried and got into trouble with some problems with the processor (reportedly) of the DL series in 2016 and cancelled the release of those cameras as a result. I think they may have been burned so badly that they are not eager to try again for some time. That was a bad year for Nikon in other ways as well, they released Snapbridge which was initially so problem-ridden that it really was amazing that they would launch in that state. A third mishap was the Keymission action camera series which also had problems in basic function. DL and Keymission were cancelled and Snapbridge today is not as bad as it was, but still isn't perfect, though some of the difficulty may come from smartphone manufacturers not willing to let Nikon implement its app in the most beneficial way (e.g. the iphone cuts off wifi from Snapbridge if switching to another app which is ridiculous throwing sticks between wheel pins). I am sure Nikon could make a high-end compact camera but then is there a need when there are cameras like the Z30 which are very small and can take a 26 mm pancake lens which is also very small? The Zf is also very thin and capable (especially good for smaller lenses from body shape point of view).

[ntblowz]

There are definitely lots of non photog buying X100 because of the hype.

Like when I use my X100VI I do get response from normal people, unlike all the Sony/Canon/Pana I used before people just being indifferent.

[ntblowz]

10 hours ago, Ilkka Nissila said:

Manufacturers do their own market research which they don't typically publish at least not verbatim.

I don't see anything too illogical or controversial about the claims made by Nikon in the interview. Nikon's market share has declined to about 1/3 of what it was at its peak 10+ years ago, and the overall camera market has declined to 1/20 of peak volumes. Nikon's improved high-end camera sales can be explained by two possibilities: one is that Nikon's high-end cameras have become relatively more competitive and thus sell better than expected from their overall market share, or that the increased total camera market (including smartphones) now produces more people who buy high-end cameras, including Nikon's. There are specific examples of the influence of social media on camera sales, including the X100V/VI.

 

I think both count in this case, the Z8/Z9 is really good capable camera that makes R3 look dated lol 😆 

There is a reason why Leica said selling their L Mount system camera is hard vs the Q, Leica Q is probably their most popular seller even though the price is not cheap, I think there are people really just want straight forward P&S camera than going through the hassle of interchangeable lens.

I got a non photographic friend the other day wanting to buy that new Leica D-LUX 8, but after checking out the price I told him X100VI is much better for retaining value, so he ordered X100 instead lol 😆  The hype is real to non photographic friends aka the smartfone user.

[ntblowz]

So what this mean to the business? I think market in those entry level camera is definitely not as important as it use to be back then, people are willing to spend big money for their first proper camera.. I think that where the Sony is quite clever with it, and Canon is paying the price for thinking their decades of strategy can still work for this decade.. wrong!

[SRV1981]

I’m an n=1 but I don’t know anyone with a dedicated camera

[IronFilm]

On 9/20/2024 at 9:52 PM, Ilkka Nissila said:

I am sure Nikon could make a high-end compact camera but then is there a need when there are cameras like the Z30 which are very small and can take a 26 mm pancake lens which is also very small? The Zf is also very thin and capable (especially good for smaller lenses from body shape point of view).

This is the way. They could even release a slimmed down / stripped down / even cheaper Nikon Z300. (like a Z30 but smaller/cheaper. They've also got the Nikon Zfc)

But what is far more important, is that they bring out more APS-C pancakes! 

At least they need a 14mm pancake, or similar. (12mm would be even better, but harder to make. 18mm might be acceptable too)

Then perhaps something (or two somethings?) in the realm of 35mm to 50mm ish pancake prime would be a smart idea too. 

Plus their existing 26mm f2.8 prime and 16-50mm fit zoom pancake, then they're sorted! 

(anything extra on top of this like a fisheye pancake, or a fast f2.8 18-35mm zoom pancake, would be merely gravy on the top) 

  

On 9/20/2024 at 9:52 PM, Ilkka Nissila said:

I am not sure if Nikon will make a high-end compact camera, they tried and got into trouble with some problems with the processor (reportedly) of the DL series in 2016 and cancelled the release of those cameras as a result.

I was so very excited over the Nikon DL18-50!!

On 9/20/2024 at 9:52 PM, Ilkka Nissila said:

I think they may have been burned so badly that they are not eager to try again for some time.

What do you think happened with the DL series that explains them being cancelled?? 

[IronFilm]

On 9/21/2024 at 8:35 AM, ntblowz said:

I think both count in this case, the Z8/Z9 is really good capable camera that makes R3 look dated lol 😆 

There is a reason why Leica said selling their L Mount system camera is hard vs the Q, Leica Q is probably their most popular seller even though the price is not cheap, I think there are people really just want straight forward P&S camera than going through the hassle of interchangeable lens.

I got a non photographic friend the other day wanting to buy that new Leica D-LUX 8, but after checking out the price I told him X100VI is much better for retaining value, so he ordered X100 instead lol 😆  The hype is real to non photographic friends aka the smartfone user.

I think the other thing Nikon (and others) should start doing is start selling their cameras with pancake lenses. Make it already ready to go out of the box, with the lens preattached. 

Yes, Nikon no longer sells the Nikon Coolpix A and they have nothing to compete directly with the very popular Fujifilm X100 series. (or the X70)

But imagine if Nikon sold a Z30 / Zfc (or "Z300") with a 28mm f2.8 pancake already on it? Even better... released a 23mm f2 pancake lens to compete directly with the X100 series? (and a 18mm f2.8 pancake lens to compete with the Fujfilm X70?)

Who cares if half the owners of the Z30 / Zfc never ever take their pancake lens off their camera (most of these people might not even realize they could take the lens off!). If it means more sales for Nikon and the whole Z ecosystem, that will be fantastic news. 

[ND64]

On 9/22/2024 at 2:38 PM, IronFilm said:

But imagine if Nikon sold a Z30 / Zfc (or "Z300") with a 28mm f2.8 pancake already on it?

There is already 24mm f/1.7. Nikon forgot to market this compact combo.

 

[EduPortas]

7 hours ago, ND64 said:

There is already 24mm f/1.7. Nikon forgot to market this compact combo.

 

Problem is their own 40mm FX came out before the 24mm DX.

I'm guessing most Z DX buyers like myself were starved for a small, fast and light lens for our Z50s.

Having a 40mm F2 made buying a 24mm F1.7 almost redundant. The 40mm is very good for the price.

[ND64]

1 hour ago, EduPortas said:

Having a 40mm F2 made buying a 24mm F1.7 almost redundant

How exactly 60mm equivalent makes 36mm equivalent almost redundant? Its like saying I dont need 80-400 because I already have 24-70! 

[EduPortas]

33 minutes ago, ND64 said:

How exactly 60mm equivalent makes 36mm equivalent almost redundant? Its like saying I dont need 80-400 because I already have 24-70! 

I'm talking about a purely economical perspective since the 40mm came out first.

Both are fast and small lenses.