new camera purchase

[maxJ4380]

As stated above, looking at a new camera purchase i have it narrowed down to either a cannon rp or Olympus omd 5 mark ii. My main requirement is the ability to be tethered to a computer so that i can use it with dragonframe for animation duties. For other photos i have an assortment of vintage and mft lenses to use as well. However it would be nice if the video side of things had a useable/nice image to dabble with as well.  

I read the The absolutely mega Olympus E-M10 III thread and i presume the m5 shouldn't be much worse for video quality... perhaps i'm wrong but i thought i'd ask anyway. I'm not a pixel peeper per se. From youtube the vids i have seen  the video quality looks ok, so i'm wondering what the general consensus about the m5 mark ii video is and if the canon is rp is better or about the same ? 

both cameras seem to be at about the price point i'm willing to pay. higher end models tend to get pricey pretty quickly and for my purposes, i think its overkill thanks for your time.

 

[Fatalfury]

Video quality on the E-M10 III is much better than E-M5 II.

[Andrew Reid]

I would go for a second hand E-M1 II over either of those. They are very cheap now and in some ways even better than the OM-1. The sensor readout is more detailed in 4K.

The E-M10 III shoots 4K whereas E-M5 II shoots absolute mud. It was dodgy in video mode even for 2014 standards!

If you absolutely can't justify an E-M1 II for 100 bucks more, the E-M10 III is the one to get.

Canon Rp is a disaster, stay away from that for video. It feels awful to use and crops like hell.

[ac6000cw]

2 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

I would go for a second hand E-M1 II over either of those.

I agree.

(For the OP) The best quality video mode is 'C4K' (DCI 4096 x 2160) at 24fps - the other 4k frame rates only support UHD which is noticeably softer.

The E-M1 iii is not much more expensive second hand now and has better video C-AF and IBIS. Video quality is the same as the E-M1 ii.

2 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

They are very cheap now and in some ways even better than the OM-1. The sensor readout is more detailed in 4K.

You need to use 10-bit mode on the OM-1 to get the most detailed video - then it at least matches the E-M1 ii/iii C4K level of detail but offers 25 & 30 fps as well as 24 fps (and the UHD is pretty much as good). Downside is that 10-bit is HEVC only and either OM-Log or HLG - no 'normal' picture profiles or adjustments.

8-bit UHD & C4K is about as detailed (i.e. a bit soft) as UHD on the E-M1 ii/iii.

[MrSMW]

I’d never buy a Cannon camera myself.

Cheap shit knock off’s.

The extra n is always a bit of a giveaway…

Otherwise I love me the OM-1.

Did not quite meet my work needs, but a beaut of a camera is so many ways.

[Andrew Reid]

I have very mixed feelings about the OM-1.

On one hand, it's a bundle of fun.

On the other hand I have yet to see what the 10bit codec brings to the table over the old E-M1 II. Just doesn't seem to really up the ante for me. The other issue is that the noise is very blotchy and it tops out at 800 for clean results - after 1600 it's really pretty poor and 3200 is a bit of a shit show in 4K and fine detail has a pixel-binned or upscaled look to it, rather than it being oversampled  as was the case with the E-M1 II.

The E-M1 II was the GH5 sensor... And the OM-1 I am not sure what chip it has. But it ain't a GH6 that's for sure.

I also find OM-LOG very iffy... It needs a lot of work to colour correct.

The E-M1 II I find does 95% of what I need in the OM-1, and given it goes for so cheap, it's hard to justify the extra!

Just my take anyway.

And the OM-5 basically brings nothing to the table at all! E-M5 III re-issue with a small firmware update.

[MrSMW]

6 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

On one hand, it's a bundle of fun.

6 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

I also find OM-LOG very iffy... It needs a lot of work to colour correct.

That was pretty much my conclusion.

On one hand, I loved the size, weight, build and sheer feel of the thing in the hands…but I shot it side by side with the S1H…and then had to use & grade the footage.

I think in isolation, I would have noticed and cared less, but side by side, that did it for me.

And yes, the low light was not great so the final nail in the coffin.

To the OP, I’d also look really hard at a Lumix S5, the original model.

[maxJ4380]

The most important consideration for me anyway is the ability to be tethered to the computer for animation work, all the rest is icing on the cake.

Surprisingly, quite a few of the lumix cameras that make it onto the supported page 

 PanasonicLumix DC-S1 1024 x 768

PanasonicLumix DC-S1R 1024 x 768

PanasonicLumix DC-S1H 1024 x 768

PanasonicLumix DC-S5 1024 x 768

PanasonicLumix DC-S5M2 1024 x 768

PanasonicLumix DC-S5M2X 1024 x 768

PanasonicLumix DC-GH5 1280 x 960

PanasonicLumix DC-GH5S 1280 x 960

PanasonicLumix DC-GH5M2 1280 x 960

PanasonicLumix DC-GH6 1280 x 960

PanasonicLumix DC-G9 1280 x 960

those numbers  at the end are for the live view. 

 I can find some deals for the DC-GH5S at about $1800 Which is about the same for a new E-M1 ii. I'm leaning towards buying new as i'm happier with the thought of some kind of warranty. i have yet to use a warranty card... but  i guess i just sleep better at night 🙂

If i save for a couple of more weeks i can stretch it to a new E-M1 II or dc-gh5s or or refurb which is supposed to be like new and has a warranty or i can get a 2ndhand one next week. i'll steer clear of the canon. I'll also have a look at the lumix's as well.

16 hours ago, ac6000cw said:

 Downside is that 10-bit is HEVC only and either OM-Log or HLG - no 'normal' picture profiles or adjustments.

hevc is that the codec that is hard on computer processors or am i thinking of another codec ?

[MrSMW]

6th month warranty with used gear from MPB.

Don't fear 'like new' or 'excellent' condition from reputable sources!

I bought a used 'good' S5ii a few months back and to be honest, could have been 'excellent' as other than the tiniest signs of use that made it obvious it was not 'brand new', absolutely zero difference real world.

25 minutes ago, maxJ4380 said:

If i save for a couple of more weeks i can stretch it to...

Sincere well done. Most just slap it on a credit card or use direct debit.

I haven't had the former for over 7 years but guilty of the latter, ie, I never 'save', - I either have the funds or I don't, but I appreciate a person who does or has to save for some/anything.

[ac6000cw]

49 minutes ago, maxJ4380 said:

The most important consideration for me anyway is the ability to be tethered to the computer for animation work, all the rest is icing on the cake.

Surprisingly, quite a few of the lumix cameras that make it onto the supported page 

 PanasonicLumix DC-S1 1024 x 768

PanasonicLumix DC-S1R 1024 x 768

PanasonicLumix DC-S1H 1024 x 768

PanasonicLumix DC-S5 1024 x 768

PanasonicLumix DC-S5M2 1024 x 768

PanasonicLumix DC-S5M2X 1024 x 768

PanasonicLumix DC-GH5 1280 x 960

PanasonicLumix DC-GH5S 1280 x 960

PanasonicLumix DC-GH5M2 1280 x 960

PanasonicLumix DC-GH6 1280 x 960

PanasonicLumix DC-G9 1280 x 960

those numbers  at the end are for the live view. 

 I can find some deals for the DC-GH5S at about $1800 Which is about the same for a new E-M1 ii. I'm leaning towards buying new as i'm happier with the thought of some kind of warranty. i have yet to use a warranty card... but  i guess i just sleep better at night 🙂

If i save for a couple of more weeks i can stretch it to a new E-M1 II or dc-gh5s or or refurb which is supposed to be like new and has a warranty or i can get a 2ndhand one next week. i'll steer clear of the canon. I'll also have a look at the lumix's as well.

If a Panasonic G9 will do what you want, then at the 2nd hand prices they sell for today it's a steal - better video quality (8 and 10-bit) than any of the Olympus/OMDS cameras I've owned (E-M1 ii, E-M1 iii, OM-1), good IBIS, and 'clean' HDMI output on a full-size connector. Note it can't be powered over USB (only for battery charging), but third-party 'dummy battery' adaptors are fairly cheap - I use my G9 powered by one, connected to a projector for meetings with no overheating issues.

I certainly wouldn't even think about paying $1800 for a new E-M1 ii or DC-GH5S - as MrSMW said, buy an 'as new' or 'excellent' grade used camera from a major dealer that provides a 6 or 12 month warranty and returns if you're not happy with it when it arrives. All the cameras on that Panasonic list (and the E-M1 ii, E-M1 iii and OM-1) are pro-grade cameras so even a cheaper 'well used' example should be fine - my E-M1 iii was bought 'well used' from a dealer, with some deep scrape marks and a couple of (easily replaced) missing port covers, but it works perfectly.

1 hour ago, maxJ4380 said:

hevc is that the codec that is hard on computer processors or am i thinking of another codec ?

Yes, it's harder to decode than AVC/H.264, but any decently modern PC/Mac should have hardware decode support in the GPU for it (up to 10-bit 4:2:0 4k at least). Note some of the Panasonic cameras can record 10-bit AVC/H.264 if it's a problem for you.

[eatstoomuchjam]

8 hours ago, MrSMW said:

Don't fear 'like new' or 'excellent' condition from reputable sources!

I bought a used 'good' S5ii a few months back and to be honest, could have been 'excellent' as other than the tiniest signs of use that made it obvious it was not 'brand new', absolutely zero difference real world.

Echoing this.  I have to be really excited to pay "new" prices for something (looks at GFX 100 II), but nearly every piece of gear that I have was purchased used or from sales that temporarily drove new prices below used prices.  With hundreds of things purchased used over the years, I can't even remember a single thing that showed up from a reputable vendor in the wrong condition.

Though do check that everything that should be included is - mpb have been bad about that for me and sometimes little things are missing - like the zoom lever for a Fujinon MK lens or an audio adapter for a camera, etc.

[MrSMW]

Yes, something to be aware of with MPB is that condition rating is not always or purely about actual ‘condition’ but sometimes, what’s not in the box. If there even is a box.

I have had stuff downgraded when selling because I did not send in a widget or doodah it originally came with.

And that is fair enough. 

[eatstoomuchjam]

Definitely - but in the cases of the zoom lever and XLR adapter, the MPB site specifically listed them as included.  I'm just saying that the people in the shipping department don't seem to be using a checklist of expected stuff when they send it out (at least here in the US).

Customer service made it right in both cases (sent a zoom lever since they had one handy and refunded the used value of the xlr adapter since they didn't have one around)

[maxJ4380]

On 9/19/2024 at 5:11 PM, MrSMW said:

 

Sincere well done. Most just slap it on a credit card or use direct debit.

I haven't had the former for over 7 years but guilty of the latter, ie, I never 'save', - I either have the funds or I don't, but I appreciate a person who does or has to save for some/anything.

I'm embarrassed to say, once apon a time i had two.. almost maxed out. Taking a good long hard look at myself. i made the effort to pay them off one at a time and get rid of them both. After that i could afford some land after saving for a year. So bought some land paid it off in half the time the bank had allowed for the mortgage.  I think some people can use credit wisely... i wasn't one of them 🙂. For me now,  its better to get something when there's money in the bank and i think i appreciate it more or value it more highly perhaps.   

Getting back on topic, its turning into a bit of a rabbit warren, this buying a new camera business. Every time i look at something, if i spend a few $ more i could get this or that...  

I have watched a few youtubes. Leaning towards a g9 at the moment because as ac6000cw has said...will do all i think i need to do.  but i'll watch a few more vids and if i can find a more interesting deal it might change lol

[IronFilm]

On 9/18/2024 at 6:22 PM, maxJ4380 said:

As stated above, looking at a new camera purchase i have it narrowed down to either a cannon rp or Olympus omd 5 mark ii. My main requirement is the ability to be tethered to a computer so that i can use it with dragonframe for animation duties.

Do no other cameras around this price point give the ability to tether?? What about the OG Panasonic G9? That seems like the easy choice here for a low budget camera that's hybrid video/stills. 
(edit: and I can see you've been seriously considering it lately, good!)

My next choice to consider, if you lean hard towards stills is the Nikon D750 / D7100 / D500 / D800 / D810 / D600 / D610 / Z6mk1

All of these are amazing bargains if you go secondhand. 

And some of them can even do very well in video if you've just got more casual things in mind for it, such as the Nikon D750 or Z6. 

https://www.eoshd.com/review/nikon-d750-review-initial-thoughts-real-world-footage-ladies-gentleman-contender/

Of course for serious professional shoots then 1080 8bit won't cut it. 

Only really the Z6 with an external 4K recorder would cut it from that list of older Nikon cameras that I gave. (or maaaybe the Nikon D500???)

 

On 9/18/2024 at 6:22 PM, maxJ4380 said:

For other photos i have an assortment of vintage and mft lenses to use as well. However it would be nice if the video side of things had a useable/nice image to dabble with as well.  

Panasonic G9 would certainly do better when it comes to video than either of those. And unlike the Canon, you can use your MFT lenses on it. 

[mercer]

@maxJ4380 I know Canon was taken off the table early on in the discussion but since nobody inquired about the animation purpose of the camera, I figured I'd bring it back into the mix. The reason I mention it is because Canon has introduced animation versions of some of there cameras. I was always curious about those models, but since I do not do animation, my curiosity was fleeting.

[BTM_Pix]

42 minutes ago, mercer said:

The reason I mention it is because Canon has introduced animation versions of some of there cameras. I was always curious about those models, but since I do not do animation, my curiosity was fleeting.

I agree with this.

If the primary purpose is to use with the animation software then I’d be led by that and Dragonframe do seem to recommend the Canon models above the rest for use with their software.

Canon do charge an additional fee for the animation firmware upgrade but if it makes it more functional for your primary purpose then I guess that is a price worth paying ?

Not sure what impact it has on the rest of the regular functionality in terms of this replacing it or just being additional functionality.

https://www.canon.co.uk/support/consumer/products/cameras/eos-r/eos-r.html?type=important&detailId=tcm:14-1955953&productTcmUri=tcm:14-1723696

 

[mercer]

47 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

I agree with this.

If the primary purpose is to use with the animation software then I’d be led by that and Dragonframe do seem to recommend the Canon models above the rest for use with their software.

Canon do charge an additional fee for the animation firmware upgrade but if it makes it more functional for your primary purpose then I guess that is a price worth paying ?

Not sure what impact it has on the rest of the regular functionality in terms of this replacing it or just being additional functionality.

https://www.canon.co.uk/support/consumer/products/cameras/eos-r/eos-r.html?type=important&detailId=tcm:14-1955953&productTcmUri=tcm:14-1723696

 

From memory, you can buy the firmware preinstalled with the RP, R and the 5D Mark IV. The mjpeg and the crop in the 5D IV could be beneficial? 

[mercer]

10 minutes ago, mercer said:

From memory, you can buy the firmware preinstalled with the RP, R and the 5D Mark IV. The mjpeg and the crop in the 5D IV could be beneficial? 

I guess the software utilizes live view and takes a raw still, so the video file seems irrelevant? In that case, the best raw file, that integrates with their software, should be the number one requirement?

[BTM_Pix]

42 minutes ago, mercer said:

I guess the software utilizes live view and takes a raw still, so the video file seems irrelevant? In that case, the best raw file, that integrates with their software, should be the number one requirement?

It’s the resolution bump for live view with the animation firmware of the Canon cameras that gives them the edge for the software.

https://www.dragonframe.com/camera-support/