Censorship at DPReview Forums?

[EduPortas]

We all know about Andrew's problem with the site. A damned shame.

What I never thought I'd see would be censorship in DPR's forums.

I've posted hundreds of times and created almost 50 threads since 2013 (lurked there since 2006, by the way).

And yet, last week my post was taken down in the Canon EOS R forum for petitioning Canon HQ in Tokyo to fix a Canon R8 EVF bug through firmware.

My petition was very respectful. I dotted all my eyes and said thank you at the end of my text.

The problem? The R8 does this weird "micro-juddering" when focusing through the EVF at any apertura other than the brightest aperture of the lens. This happens in the DOF+Exposure option in the EVF only. I'm no expert but it seems the focus planes are moving and that creates image movement in the EVF. It's incredibly distracting and sickening. 

I'm sure Canon can fix this easily. My basic Nikon Z50 works fine when focusing through the EVF and displaying both aperture and exposure changes in real time. Focus is rock- solid.

And yet this subject was deemed too controversial and infringing on the rules of DPR's forums. IMO it's a been a steep decline after the new administration took over (and Amazon was not exactly a gold standard in the editorial industry, btw) 

[ND64]

There is no clear rule over there. Moderators decide who is the trouble maker. They once removed my reply to a guy, because I judged his integrity very quickly! lol.

[Andrew Reid]

Sounds like you did the right thing and that's what matters.

It's a pretty big red flag when mods of a site start to protect the manufacturers at the expense of their own readers and forum users, to act as cover for defects, which is the opposite of what journalism and community are about - to expose the truth.

I could understand if you set out to criticise DPReview from the get-go and not Canon - but you were criticising Canon in a constructive way and campaigning for them to fix a genuine issue, much as I did with the R5 overheating malarky.

So I'm sorry you had this experience with DPReview and yes...

It is a dying site. Gear Patrol at the end of the day are in the business of advertorial not journalism.

[EduPortas]

47 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

Sounds like you did the right thing and that's what matters.

It's a pretty big red flag when mods of a site start to protect the manufacturers at the expense of their own readers and forum users, to act as cover for defects, which is the opposite of what journalism and community are about - to expose the truth.

I could understand if you set out to criticise DPReview from the get-go and not Canon - but you were criticising Canon in a constructive way and campaigning for them to fix a genuine issue, much as I did with the R5 overheating malarky.

So I'm sorry you had this experience with DPReview and yes...

It is a dying site. Gear Patrol at the end of the day are in the business of advertorial not journalism.

 

Yes, I have no way to prove this but it seems the major brands have a digital troll army ready to attack anyone who questions or even remotely criticises one of their products. They'll hound you until you give in.

I can understand that. Big companies will do almost everything to protect their markets.

What's incredibly disconcerting is the unholy union of a journalism site specializing in photography and those electronic brands. It has now become clear the "mods" take orders from the Marketing Department.

And yes, I checked a bunch of sites if reviewers had mentioned this particular problem on the R8's EVF when taking photographs. Nada. Nothing. Exactly zero profesional reviewers mentioned this obvious problem.

It is a very good video-camera, though.

[Happy Daze]

I posted this video to DPR over 3 years ago:

 

In this thread:

hxxps://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4560524

Caused all kinds of shit.

The thread appears to be open again now but it was locked for some time and a lot of the replies have been deleted. Some people actually took the title seriously and obviously didn't bother watching the video, man were they pissed!

[Ilkka Nissila]

Nikon Z cameras focus at the shooting aperture (unless smaller than f/5.6 in which case they focus at f/5.6 and stop down for the picture which can result in flickering of the EVF). Canon cameras focus wide open (unless the user selects otherwise) and thus the EVF brightness can vary a bit during the composition and focusing as the camera has to adjust the aperture between focusing and actual taking of the picture. The advantage of the Canon method is that the focusing system gets more light, advantages of the Nikon approach are that focus shift between aperture does not cause focus errors (between wide open and f/5.6 at least) and there is a more stable viewfinder experice. Ideally the user would be given the option to switch between these two modes of operation.

 

I am not sure I would call camera review websites "journalism". I mean, from the start it has been clear that dpreview wants to promote the sales of new gear rather than a discussion of photographs or techniques. The amount of front-page pics of equipment was always very high. There are other sites more focused on discussions on photography. Note that print magazines who review gear also have the advertisers' backs and practically never say too negative things about the gear. The reader is expected to understand these realities of business. Ultimately, one can learn how a piece of gear works for one's own use only by testing in one's applications. Other people or companies cannot reliably give that information to you.

 

I think rather than moderators or other posters working for the manufacturers, they more likely have vested interests in particular gear and brand and defend it due to pride of ownership etc. They can also defend the products or brand to maintain a positive vibe on the forum focused on a particular brand. A positive mindset can make the forums more friendly and welcoming to visitors. I think too often people focus on problems rather than what can be done to get around them and get work done. Forums are full of endless complaints to the point of exhaustion yet excellent work can be done with the gear that exists.

 

Dpreview forums have extremely low social quality and friendliness due to inadequate moderation (while the editorial content is generally very good). I think the hostility on that site is so high that I have not posted there for almost a decade.

[EduPortas]

13 hours ago, Ilkka Nissila said:

Nikon Z cameras focus at the shooting aperture (unless smaller than f/5.6 in which case they focus at f/5.6 and stop down for the picture which can result in flickering of the EVF). Canon cameras focus wide open (unless the user selects otherwise) and thus the EVF brightness can vary a bit during the composition and focusing as the camera has to adjust the aperture between focusing and actual taking of the picture. The advantage of the Canon method is that the focusing system gets more light, advantages of the Nikon approach are that focus shift between aperture does not cause focus errors (between wide open and f/5.6 at least) and there is a more stable viewfinder experice. Ideally the user would be given the option to switch between these two modes of operation.

I am not sure I would call camera review websites "journalism". 

Thank you, you're correct.

I'm 100% sure can add an option on the menu so we get a similar experience as the Nikon EVF. I have no problem focusing at F5.6.

I do however have a problem with the Canon method bc the whole screen moves in and out of the focusing plane. It's very annoying and makes the EVF unusable in the most advance option (Exp+DOF simulation) IMO.

On the second you mentioned I do believe DPReview strived in the past to make good journalism writing 20+ pages on a camera review. We have a good example in Andrew's fantastic write-up on the GH4. Quality stuff.

 

[ND64]

4 hours ago, EduPortas said:

I'm 100% sure can add an option on the menu so we get a similar experience as the Nikon EVF. I have no problem focusing at F5.6.

Both brands refuse to add an option to let the user experience other brand's approach. Nikon's approach gives a stable EVF, but poor AF performance at low light, which created this widespread notion that their AF system is a generation behind compared to competition, whereas in reality its just getting less light. Funny thing is they tried to address this issue with introduction of 30fps EVF feed at low light, which created laggy image in panning movements and worsened the EVF experience. DPR, Petapixel, or youtubers didn't push them to let the user choose the tradeoff depending on his/her priority.