New Tascam FR-AV2 giving Zoom F3 competition?

[Ty Harper]

Looks promising!

https://tascam.com//us/product/fr-av2

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1852610-REG/tascam_fr_av2_32_bit_float_recorder_timecode_generator.html

 

[BTM_Pix]

What stood out for me is that it can do both regular timecode as well as wireless with the Atomos UltraSync Blue system.

If it can convert the incoming timecode from the UltraSync Blue into regular timecode to output to the camera (and vice versa which is more unlikely) then that would be very useful.

To do this otherwise would need an UltraSync One which is roughly 75% of the total price of the FR-AV2.

The bluetooth headphone monitoring can easily be replicated with cheap add ons for other recorders but its good to see it integrated.

The additional $100 over the F3 isn't onerous and if I didn't have an F3 then this would be my choice.

 

[Ty Harper]

1 hour ago, BTM_Pix said:

What stood out for me is that it can do both regular timecode as well as wireless with the Atomos UltraSync Blue system.

If it can convert the incoming timecode from the UltraSync Blue into regular timecode to output to the camera (and vice versa which is more unlikely) then that would be very useful.

To do this otherwise would need an UltraSync One which is roughly 75% of the total price of the FR-AV2.

The bluetooth headphone monitoring can easily be replicated with cheap add ons for other recorders but its good to see it integrated.

The additional $100 over the F3 isn't onerous and if I didn't have an F3 then this would be my choice.

 

Yeah, feels like the only thing left to know is maybe how good the pre-amps are?

[Ty Harper]

@IronFilmyou seen this?

[KnightsFan]

Tascam did a great job with the feature set on this. I'll definitely buy one if reviewers don't find anything silly, and the sound quality is comparable to the F3. Timecode is great, plus builtin wireless monitoring eliminates one more device to mount and power. If it weren't for the FR-AV2, I considered a Sennheiser EW-DP SKP, but one of these is way cheaper than a transmitter/receiver setup.

My goal is to have two boom mics, where each has a recorder directly on the boom pole, and the op uses wireless headphones (one will continue to use my F3). What I have found on amateur sets is that

A. boom ops are not skillful enough to consistently swap back and forth during dialog. Training an extra person on the day of the shoot and having independent booms does actually sound better than an intermediate-skill person booming 2 people.

B. lavs don't work perfectly--we simply don't have the skill or resources to hide them securely and properly

C. it's impossible to understate the efficiency value of each boom mic being completely wireless. Letting a boom op put their mic down and quickly help with something else speeds us up. Wireless headphones are an important part of that!

D. gain staging--wireless in particular--is difficult for beginners to nail every time. Wired 32 bit is easy to nail every time.

I know all the audio pros are going to squirm reading that, lol. But for my triangle of price/required skill/output quality, this might be it.

[Ty Harper]

1 hour ago, KnightsFan said:

Tascam did a great job with the feature set on this. I'll definitely buy one if reviewers don't find anything silly, and the sound quality is comparable to the F3. Timecode is great, plus builtin wireless monitoring eliminates one more device to mount and power. If it weren't for the FR-AV2, I considered a Sennheiser EW-DP SKP, but one of these is way cheaper than a transmitter/receiver setup.

My goal is to have two boom mics, where each has a recorder directly on the boom pole, and the op uses wireless headphones (one will continue to use my F3). What I have found on amateur sets is that

A. boom ops are not skillful enough to consistently swap back and forth during dialog. Training an extra person on the day of the shoot and having independent booms does actually sound better than an intermediate-skill person booming 2 people.

B. lavs don't work perfectly--we simply don't have the skill or resources to hide them securely and properly

C. it's impossible to understate the efficiency value of each boom mic being completely wireless. Letting a boom op put their mic down and quickly help with something else speeds us up. Wireless headphones are an important part of that!

D. gain staging--wireless in particular--is difficult for beginners to nail every time. Wired 32 bit is easy to nail every time.

I know all the audio pros are going to squirm reading that, lol. But for my triangle of price/required skill/output quality, this might be it.

There are also rumors of a Zoom F3 MKII on the way - so thinking I might also wait to see if that's true!

[KnightsFan]

22 minutes ago, Ty Harper said:

There are also rumors of a Zoom F3 MKII on the way - so thinking I might also wait to see if that's true!

Interesting. Well, I guess depending when I need that 2nd boom setup and the release dates, both will be in the running.

One thing that I do like about Tascam which I almost wrote in my original post, is that their app supports connecting to multiple devices, so you can rec/stop on a bunch of units with 1 phone. This is nice if you use any kind of plant mic or bodypack on a talent. I also think that, just judging from pics, the body design and button layout here is better than the F3. So even if Zoom adds timecode and wireless monitoring, Tascam has a decent advantage imo.

Either way, competition is good for consumers.

[Ty Harper]

42 minutes ago, KnightsFan said:

Interesting. Well, I guess depending when I need that 2nd boom setup and the release dates, both will be in the running.

One thing that I do like about Tascam which I almost wrote in my original post, is that their app supports connecting to multiple devices, so you can rec/stop on a bunch of units with 1 phone. This is nice if you use any kind of plant mic or bodypack on a talent. I also think that, just judging from pics, the body design and button layout here is better than the F3. So even if Zoom adds timecode and wireless monitoring, Tascam has a decent advantage imo.

Either way, competition is good for consumers.

Zoom has been pretty good with the FW updates so fingers crossed all of this competition gets them to throw the OG Zoom F3 owners a bone or two.

[IronFilm]

12 hours ago, Ty Harper said:

@IronFilmyou seen this?

I posted about this over a week ago! 🤣 😂 😆  As the specs got leaked a while ago.

But posted not to here, rather to a subreddit specifically for production sound: 

 https://www.reddit.com/r/ProductionSound/comments/1fl0rn9/new_tascam_frav2_is_coming_a_zoom_f3_killer/

I agree with the first post from @BTM_Pix, the fact that this is able to treat TC normally (rather than the hacked up weird way TC is done with the Zoom F3, although yes, the Zoom F3 is technically "timecode capable") means the Tascam is a better idea than the Zoom F3. (although I suspect the small $100 difference in RRP means that the average buyer who doesn't even know about will end up choosing the F3 instead 😕 However I suspect within 18 months we'll see the Tascam street price getting closer to the F3's RRP)

11 hours ago, KnightsFan said:

My goal is to have two boom mics, where each has a recorder directly on the boom pole, and the op uses wireless headphones (one will continue to use my F3). What I have found on amateur sets is that

A. boom ops are not skillful enough to consistently swap back and forth during dialog. Training an extra person on the day of the shoot and having independent booms does actually sound better than an intermediate-skill person booming 2 people.

So true that many "Boom Ops" lack the necessary skills at the indie level. (in a way this is due to the extremely low value placed on the Sound Dept. Where they think the entire department could be done by just one person. And if we do get a 1st AS that it is basically a glorified PA position, not that their skill level has to be at the same level as a 1st AC or Gaffer.

Honestly even getting two people who can each properly boom one person at a time is often a tall ask. That they will get it in close enough, and on axis, and with no shadows, and with no reflections, and do all of this while this one person is moving. On an indie no / low budget shoot I feel lucky if I get even one Boom Op who is competent at all of that. If they can lav people up too, then I've hit gold. 

11 hours ago, KnightsFan said:

B. lavs don't work perfectly--we simply don't have the skill or resources to hide them securely and properly

Yup! That's why I just said "If they can lav people up too, then I've hit gold". 

And is why in the vast majority of these scenarios I will have to lav them up myself. 

But on bigger budget / professional film sets, where you have actually skilled people in your department, then it's the normal process for the AS (usually the 2nd AS) to be doing the lav-ing rather than the Sound Mixer. 

11 hours ago, KnightsFan said:

C. it's impossible to understate the efficiency value of each boom mic being completely wireless. Letting a boom op put their mic down and quickly help with something else speeds us up. 

For a long time I went hard wired. But eventually I felt the audio quality sacrifice of using Lectrosonics wireless on the boom was worth it due to the practical benefits. 

11 hours ago, KnightsFan said:

D. gain staging--wireless in particular--is difficult for beginners to nail every time.

If you've got a person dedicated for being the Mixer, not someone booming at the same time, then I don't think it's that hard for them to grasp basic gain staging. 

  

10 hours ago, Ty Harper said:

There are also rumors of a Zoom F3 MKII on the way - so thinking I might also wait to see if that's true!

Ohhhh.... where did you see this? 

Wish the Tascam FR-AV2 would also let you record the 3.5mm stereo input as well as both XLR inputs. (currently it can only do one or the other, not all four inputs at once) 

If the new Zoom F3 mk2 could do that and does TC sensibly (not only via BT!) and does 24bit 48KHz BWAV, then I think I've found myself my next backup / supplementary / compact recorder. 

  

9 hours ago, Ty Harper said:

Zoom has been pretty good with the FW updates so fingers crossed all of this competition gets them to throw the OG Zoom F3 owners a bone or two.

That's true, due to firmware updates for the OG F8 then it's almost identical to the latest F8n Pro. 

[IronFilm]

A bearded review: 

 

[Ty Harper]

10 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Ohhhh.... where did you see this?

On a random reddit thread. Again totally a rumour, but it doesn't seem far fetched to think that Zoom would counter such a direct competitor to their F3 by either offering a FW update of some sort or an MKII. However, I'm not sure what FW update(s) they could offer that would make the F3 a more competitive option than the FR-AV2.

[Clark Nikolai]

Looks really good. It's like design-wise they kept to just two channels and concentrated on all the other aspects of a recorder.

For me I'll wait until they have a 4 or 6 channel version. I've been eyeing the Zoom F6 which seems good. I don't have a project for that many channels just yet (but sometimes have needed three) but I know at some point I will.

 

[IronFilm]

 

 

20 hours ago, Ty Harper said:

However, I'm not sure what FW update(s) they could offer that would make the F3 a more competitive option than the FR-AV2.

True, I can think of lots of firmware updates the FR-AV2 could get but not so much the F3 could do. 

19 hours ago, Clark Nikolai said:

For me I'll wait until they have a 4 or 6 channel version. I've been eyeing the Zoom F6 which seems good. I don't have a project for that many channels just yet (but sometimes have needed three) but I know at some point I will.

Yes, as while the FR-AV2 is a nice two channel record, Tascam is totally AWOL in the world of prosumer or professional recorders for anything more than two channels. 

Where is the Tascam DR701D mk2? 

Where is the Tascam HS-P82 mk2? 

Where is the Tascam DR680 mk3? 

I hope the FR-AV2 is a hint that there will be a future FR-AV6 / FR-AV12 / etc in the future.