Anxious about getting a new camera

[ricardo_sousa11]

Hi all...

 

As some of you may know, i've been intending to get a new camera for the past 2 months, and for that time period, I thought I had chosen the right one for me...but as time goes by I get more and more uncertain of what I should choose. For me this is a huge investment, I do professional video, and for the past few months it has been getting more and more serious, so I really do need to get a new camera, but having to spend 1-3k on one, is really a huge investment for me. I also do photography as a hobby, so it still is important to me.

For the past few months, I was certain I should get the NX1, it seems to be an amazing video camera, and people talk good about stills (though I havent seen much of these, which leaves me concerned), but they dont sell it in my country, so I have to order it, and the workflow seems to be a real strouggle for people without a high end computer. So now im thinking, do I get the NX1 ? Do I get a 5DM3 ? a7s ? Do I wait 1 more month ?  What do I do? How do you guys decide when making such a big investment ?

[AaronChicago]

All of those are great. I'd just decide on which one checks off the most important marks.

[fuzzynormal]

From my perspective on the low-end corporate side of things:

Any camera in the price range you're talking about will do everything you need it to do and it'll look fine.  You're not going to be limited by the technology.  You're really not.  These days my assertion is that it's all about the skill level and creativity you bring to the shoot, not the consumer gear you buy... unless you decide to really go upmarket and invest 10K+ in gear that higher level clients feel more comfortable with.  

--which isn't always a bad thing.  Sometimes clients like seeing a bunch of "real" gear around and they'll pay for that reassurance, even though a shooter does the same exact thing with an expensive camera as they do with an inexpensive one.  I like to rent gear in these upscale circumstances as the cost gets passed onto the client anyway.

All this depends on the clients you're trying to land.  If you're doing weddings or low end stuff, I say ignore the expensive gear altogether.  I do.

As for the NX1, as long as you're willing to go through the transcoding step, (people that typically don't like this step are the ones that gripe about dealing with the new video codec) it really shouldn't be a problem.  I personally don't mind transcoding to prores422 and do it for all my footage anyway regardless of the acquisition codec.

And there's ALWAYS a new and better piece of gear just around the corner.   I mean, I'd even be contrarian and suggest (if you're really trying to keep the budget tight) considering a GX7 ($450 used) or similar if you want great looking 1080 IQ for less.  My advice is to stay one generation behind the "cutting edge" of equipment, buy stuff when it discounts (new or used) and concentrate your efforts on shooting and lighting. 

So, you know, before worrying so much about a such-and-such camera, I always recommend concentrating on lighting first.  The best shooters understand how to paint with light; natural or artificial... and if you know what you're doing in this regard then you can make any camera look good.

I'd say try not to get caught up in the Gear Acquisition Syndrome.  

Now, all that bloviating aside, if I was buying a new camera today and had money burning a hole in my pocket, I'd pick up a A7s simply because it allows some fun creative filming and flexibility with light.  You can do more with less when it comes to lighting, and that's always a good thing. 

Bottom line:  Whatever you get, use it as a creative tool, not a crutch.  Don't worry if it does't do something as well as another piece of gear, just make it do what you want to the best of your ability. 

[MattH]

I relate to the feeling well.  All options seem so close to what you need yet so far.  You don't want to go down one route of a camera and lenses and then regret it.

I think we have to be at peice with the fact that some of the purchases we make may turn out to be a waste of money.  But as long as you are going forward, in the long run it doesn't matter.

That being said, theres no point going down a dead end route if you can forsee it.

What equipment do you currently have?

[Kristoferman]

Take solace in the fact that no matter which camera you choose, it'll depreciate by 50% in a year when the newest version is released

[fuzzynormal]

All options seem so close to what you need yet so far.

​I think this is an unfortunate assumption.  

One that I see often on online forums.  As you can read in my previous post, I feel it's what you do with the gear rather than the gear itself.  People need to stop fretting about spec sheets and just use the stuff.  I don't think folks are doing themselves any favors when they feel their potential success is tied directly to whatever gear they have.  Yes, it's part of the equation and you need to take the considerations seriously.  It's just not as important, IMHO, as many seemingly tend to believe.

So many other factors (and most not technically related) are so more valuable to a successful production.

I'll qualify this and say that this is from my experience as a corporate video shooter.  Other's reality may be different.

[johnnymossville]

I would spend on the lower end of your budget on the camera body, and use the rest for a few key professional quality lenses that cover the focal length's you need and for a wireless audio setup.  Pro quality lenses can be found used, and used with adapters if necessary to give you more options.    Also, your shooting style is important here as well.  Are you doing run and gun style work, a lot of running around getting the shots quickly, or are you planning on doing work that allows you to set up each shot with care?      If your style is Run and Gun a camcorder style camera might be best for you or a shoulder rig for your DSLR style camera.  Also, if you go with a DSLR Style camera, remember to set aside Money for a Rig/tripod in your budget, etc,..,  this will show clients you are a professional. 

I would also look to the future.  for me,  4k and an EVF are just about two of the biggest features a camera must have right now.  Like others said, in your price range all the cameras are good.  Have fun choosing!

[maxotics]

I have an a7, a6000, bmpcc, gm1, a variety of lenses, and I can never predict which camera will be best.  In other words, Ricardo, even if you had all the equipment you wanted you'd still have to make impossible decisions about what to take with you/us.  EVERY camera has strengths and weaknesses.  And, you REALLY need good lenses too.

I'm feeling here that there's a bit of a "if you have to ask the price you can't afford it", so I agree with FuzzyNormal that for the best camera with a strength in video I'd go with the GX7.  I can barely tell the difference between its 1080p image from 4K scaled down.   With an inexpensive adapter you can mount all kinds of lenses on it.  The only downside it is doesn't look "professional".   But if you put a cheap cage around it, and a shotgun, you could probably get that look!

I'd get that, and then if you get well-paid work then think about getting something ONCE you have at least $4,000 budgeted.  The GX7 will ALWAYS be useful.  Another great camera is the Sony A6000.

[fuzzynormal]

FWIW, I will add this:  imaging tech is going to get so advanced and so cheap that very soon everybody, and I do mean everybody, will have awesome IQ power with them at all times -- via smartphones and enthusiast cameras.  

http://www.43rumors.com/panasonic-aims-to-launch-new-8k-cameras-by-2020/

So, ultimately, I don't think you're going to be able to significantly outclass competition with just the camera you buy.

I'd argue that this moment has kind of arrived already, but great IQ will continue to get more and more democratized.  

As this happens, what's going to matter more?  How you work with a client, how you visualize your images, how you collaborate, how you successfully envision a project and deliver it, how you tell a story ... or, what camera you choose to do the job?

Depending on what you do, only you can answer that, but I know what I'm trying to value and nurture. 

[MattH]

I think you should stick with your 600d for now.  The nx1 is a downgrade in rolling shutter and workflow.  Save up and see what some of the new cameras coming out are like.  The a7r ii or the micro cinema camera might take your fancy.  There might be a 4k a7000 or even a new samsung (as rumoured) with fewer megapixels and better RS.

[ricardo_sousa11]

So many repplies, its good to see im not the only one feeling like this before a purchase.

 

Im trying to find a piece of equipment that in 3-5 years will still be very good, so the way im "choosing" is by features, so 4k seems to be a strongpoint. Lens wise im already pretty set, I have a samyang 24mm f1.4 (wich is the one I use the most), and have acess to Samyang 14mm, Sigma Art 50mm f1.4 and a bunch of vintage glass, so I dont really need to invest in glass. The system I chose is also pretty much irrelevant, since most of what I do is manual (focus and aperture), I dont need fast AF and all that.

 

Is the rolling shutter on the Nx1 that bad ? I thought it was much improved on the latest firmwares, eitherway I dont do a lot of fast stuff, so that isnt a problem either. What im looking for is straight up quality coming out of the camera.

This is how im "ranking" the cameras so far :

 

NX1 :

+ IQ; 4k; 120fps

- Workflow

a7s

+ISO performance; IQ; Full Frame

-lack of internal 4k; 12mpx stills; Pricetag

5DM3

+Stills; Raw Video; IQ

-Pricetag; lack of 4k

 

I've discarded M43 sensor due to the "lack" of shallow DOF, im not familiar with the Sony A6000 but will take a look at it...The A7r II is truly what I would feel extremelly confortable with, but the pricetag is way above what I can pay.

[fuzzynormal]

You can wait forever for the next best thing.  Buy a camera so you can do something tomorrow.  You're not going to accomplish anything looking at spec sheets.  

Here's an example shot with the Panasonic GM1:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/694tsb6iwy5y6um/AABQqvadHmjdB8jqJDat5cVTa?dl=0

Is it the best IQ available?  No.  Do the GM1's IQ limitations get in the way of me telling an effective story?  No.  Is it pretty darn good with IQ anyway?  Yes.  DOF quality?  Watch the interview shot I linked to and you tell me.  Besides, most cinematographers prefer f5.6 on s35mm, so I think this FullFrame DOF argument is overplayed, but if you feel like you need it, that's your call.  4K?  Eh, it's nice but not a deal breaker for me.  I can shoot on 1080 and be content.

I'd also point out that M43 can take a speed-booster adapter and work as an effective s35mm cam. 

Anyway, the thing is if you're shooting on a budget you have to make compromises...and I don't think the compromises these days are really that bad.  This cheap stuff does quite well.  My advice is to go get it and actually do some work.

[Oliver Daniel]

FWIW, I will add this:  imaging tech is going to get so advanced and so cheap that very soon everybody, and I do mean everybody, will have awesome IQ power with them at all times -- via smartphones and enthusiast cameras.  

http://www.43rumors.com/panasonic-aims-to-launch-new-8k-cameras-by-2020/

So, ultimately, I don't think you're going to be able to significantly outclass competition with just the camera you buy.

I'd argue that this moment has kind of arrived already, but great IQ will continue to get more and more democratized.  

As this happens, what's going to matter more?  How you work with a client, how you visualize your images, how you collaborate, how you successfully envision a project and deliver it, how you tell a story ... or, what camera you choose to do the job?

Depending on what you do, only you can answer that, but I know what I'm trying to value and nurture. 

​

You views and my views are very, very similar. I personally don't buy into what cameras people are using, it's a lot more about the shooter and the content. This kind of thing is plainly obvious to most professionals, but at amateur level - gear is usually God. 

4k is here and it's all good, but you won't find much difference in the final image quality if you don't work on your ideas, lighting and composition first. I'd like to see more of this stuff on EOSHD but hey, it's not my house. 

I've owned my GH3 for the smaller jobs (and even some of the bigger ones) for 2 and a half years, and not a single person has questioned my choice of camera. They don't care. Granted, I'm now eager to replace my GH3 because I see some of the new technology as a creative benefit.

One thing though... corporate clients like to attend shoots. They feel comfortable when your camera looks the business. They may feel uncomfortable if you turn up with a GX7 and think you are not professional. Sad fact. So if you go small, it's very beneficial to have bells and whistles just for show. 

[ricardo_sousa11]

I agree with working your skill and creativity rather than relying on camera gear. I've used the Canon 600D for the past 2 years, and Im still amazed at what such a tiny little camera can do, but it does have its limitations (specially in video), and thats why I need an upgrade. Nowadays we have so many choices its pretty hard to choose, every camera has its ups and downs, unfortunately in Portugal theres no renting service or else i'd rent and try each camera and make the best choice, all I can do is search for reviews and videos online. I love the look Albert Fast, ED David, Andrew Reid and some others can take out of the NX1, but its pretty hard to "judge" because I dont know the whole process and can only look at the final product on Vimeo/Youtube, so its hard to put down 1,5k simply by looking at those videos, and then ending up having a struggle to work with the system.

 

Eiterway, I will be getting a new computer to help with the editing process, so my camera budget is around 1500-2000€ right now.

[maxotics]

I would not go with the NX1 because it's too early to tell how committed Samsung is to cameras and as Oliver says, the public isn't clamoring for 4K.  Face it, if a client wants 4K they probably won't hired a "man and his dog" production company.  My wife gets mad at me when I order the HD version of movies on Amazon demand for $1 extra.  She says she can't tell the difference. Further, RAW based 1080 cameras like the BMPCC crush all 4K 8-bit cameras in color nuance and dynamic range.  Here's a video (I took quick and dirty) with some mixed cameras and you can see what the difference is.  I overexposed the a7 footage a bit, which means I'm stuck with it.  The BMPCC not only has better colors against the a7 (even if perfectly exposed) but it has, to me, a film look.  

 

I would not get the 5D3 because, as hell of a camera it is, and it is, it is built as a through-the-lens camera which makes video more cumbersome than the A7, where you have an EVF and can see zebras, focus peaking, etc.  Indeed, if you're going to shoot with the glass you have I believe an EVF camera is a must.

A bad thing for me, good thing for you, is that Sony's model updates and driving the prices down on their earlier cameras.  You should consider an a7 too because you may get one for a song.  However, the large pixel count of the a7 means it is susceptible to moire so you want to accept that trade-off.  If you like a really crisp image, then the panasonic m43rds, like FuzzyNormal says, deliver the goods.  For me, the a7 is the perfect utility camera, great stills and video, takes any lens.

Also, I can't keep someone focused on a full-frame at wide apertures.  For video, I agree with Fuzzy that you're going to end up shooting not lower than 5.8 anyway.  The sony autofocus on the A6000, does work reasonably well at 1.8 (effective 2.8 say) however.

Again, as Oliver implied, business isn't about getting the camera/equipment you want, it's about getting the camera the client wants (indirectly).  As for an investment for 3 years... I live one shot at a time

Photos of event https://www.flickr.com/photos/maxotics/sets/72157654514582616  I used an A7 with 55/1.8, a6000 with 10-18, Canon 50D with Nikon 50mm

[Stab]

My advice is to buy a cheap camera and good lenses with that kind of budget. If you want to hold on for a better camera to come around, then why not buy a cheap camera for now to keep you busy and lenses that you will be able to use with the next-gen ultra 4000 camera that you will buy next year?

Get a used GH3 with a Speed Booster (or Lens Turbo if you're cheap) and call it a day. Many people get dragged into the 'upgrade my gear' race that everyone seems to have with all these new toys being released. But those won't make you a better cameraman. A GH3 with a Speed Booster will do everything you want and more. It's the only camera I use since the day it came out. It's rugged, the batteries last for ages, reliable, takes a Mic + headphones + external monitor, almost no moire and generally gives a great image. People who complain about the low-light capabilities of M4/3 simply don't use the correct lenses to do so. I shoot a Sigma 18-35mm f1.8 which turns into a f1.2 constant zoom with the Speed Booster.

Check below for my latest wedding film which features a lot of low-light shots. All done with the GH3.

 

[fuzzynormal]

but its pretty hard to "judge" because I dont know the whole process and can only look at the final product on Vimeo/Youtube, so its hard to put down 1,5k simply by looking at those videos, and then ending up having a struggle to work with the system.

Responding to that from the creative perspective:  As you probably know, cameras are not going to grab really awesome shots without skills and effort both in the field and in post.  Expect that you're going to have to "struggle" to make successful motion picture images.  Learning how to do what people like Ed and Andrew do to make their work superior to others is what it's all about.  That's the craft.  Again, it's not necessarily about the camera.  Turning something on and pointing the lens is just how you start the day.  That's not enough to get impressive work.

And from the technical side:  If you're worried about the NX1 and it's new h.265 codec that doesn't work well with editing apps, I'd suggest you shouldn't.  All you have to do is transcode the footage to easily edit it in post.  That's hardly the onerous step that some online tend to make it out as being.  

In other words, I wouldn't dismiss the NX1 for that reason.  Also, you're getting a new computer to handle post production work, so you'll be fine.  

The NX1 is a great little 4K motion picture camera that requires footage to be transcoded.  Not a big deal.  I'd accept that without hesitation.

But again, if you're anxious about over-investing in something, then just buy something older, used even.  You'll get a very functional imaging device on the cheap and you can develop your skills, make some money, and then target your investment towards the particular needs you'll KNOW you require after a year or so.

[MattH]

 Here's a video (I took quick and dirty) with some mixed cameras and you can see what the difference is.  I overexposed the a7 footage a bit, which means I'm stuck with it.  The BMPCC not only has better colors against the a7 (even if perfectly exposed) but it has, to me, a film look.  

​Good comparison. bmpcc wins hands down in this case.  Great tones, smooth roll off, pleanty of detail when in focus.  I think the all I-frame nature of the proress helps as well: going through fewer cycles of interframe compression makes the motion look less 'ghosty' and smoother.

[AaronChicago]

Shit. Now everyone is going to be asking about 4K.

http://www.engadget.com/2015/07/02/iphone-6s-4k-video-rumor/

[ipcmlr]

My suggestion gh3 you can get one for less than $500 used. Has headphone jack. Nice 1080p. And 100% of your lenses will fit.

Gh4 costs more than double. A7s even more. A7s needs fullframe lenses.

If you need 4k - Gh4