Anxious about getting a new camera

[Mattias Burling]

I would go g6. You can get it for less than half the cost of a gh3 plus it has peaking. 

[ricardo_sousa11]

I dont think getting a G6 would make much sense in terms "raw" material.

 

Having considered, I think I will go for the NX1, it seems to be the best option, and also the cheapest, I realized I also have a 15 day trial, so if I really dont like it, I can give it back. It also seems like the best "future proof" camera, having the native 4k, and 120fps makes me feel confortable that within 3-5 years it will still be a very good camera.Footage will probably be quite sharp using my Samyang 24mm or Art lenses, wih some nice soft bokeh. The a7s as good as it is, will probably drop price with the arrival of the a7rII (or a7sII).

The big problem is that where I live, there really isnt any renting service or else all of this would be much much simpler.

[Dean]

If stills are important, I think FF would be the way to go.

The NX1 is awesome for video but I have never really been that impressed by it's stills.  And you are right, there really isn't much out there in the way of interesting stills to look at from the NX1 because it occupies a strange space in the market I think. Anyone whose seriously into stills isn't going to choose this camera against the competition. For video it's shown it's a great choice though. The images it produces just don't have that same "bite" and depth as images from a FF cam esp at the pixel level. Also, I know it's trivial, but I just hate the sound of the NX1's shutter when taking stills for some reason. It's the worse sounding shutter I have ever heard ... like a dull thud of a noise ... it's awful. LOL.  I can send you some RAW files to look at if you want.

I wouldn't let the workflow put you off an NX1 for video though if stills are not really that important ... it's nothing really ... 1/2 an hour of your time transcoding while you are doing something else. 

Can you wait for the A7Rii? 

[ricardo_sousa11]

If stills are important, I think FF would be the way to go.

The NX1 is awesome for video but I have never really been that impressed by it's stills.  And you are right, there really isn't much out there in the way of interesting stills to look at from the NX1 because it occupies a strange space in the market I think. Anyone whose seriously into stills isn't going to choose this camera against the competition. For video it's shown it's a great choice though. The images it produces just don't have that same "bite" and depth as images from a FF cam esp at the pixel level. Also, I know it's trivial, but I just hate the sound of the NX1's shutter when taking stills for some reason. It's the worse sounding shutter I have ever heard ... like a dull thud of a noise ... it's awful. LOL.  I can send you some RAW files to look at if you want.

I wouldn't let the workflow put you off an NX1 for video though if stills are not really that important ... it's nothing really ... 1/2 an hour of your time transcoding while you are doing something else. 

Can you wait for the A7Rii? 

​I can wait for the A7rII I just cant afford it, spending 3,4k on it its way out of budget, my full budget for PC+Camera is around 2,5k, so spending that extra on the camera alone would destroy me for now :/

I like taking stills, but I think that my 600D is already pretty good on the still side, im expecting similar performance on the NX1 (would be extremelly disapointed if it was worse than the 600D). I do love the Full Frame look on the still department, but there simply isnt any good Still/video camera with FF sensor (just the A7 gama or 5DM3) and since I make the most money on Video, I must invest on Video.

I thought transcoding would take 5-10hours and not 1-2h, that doesnt seem to bad at all, and very maneagable.

I would accept those Raw files if you (or anyone else) wants to send them to me, I'd really appreciate !

[Mattias Burling]

In the NX1 user group on FB I've seen loads of cool pics from it.

[Sekhar]

Anyone whose seriously into stills isn't going to choose this camera against the competition.

​NX1 can shoot at 15 frames/sec burst at full 28MP. How may other cameras can do that? It can shoot great stills and is fully capable (I took it to Costa Rica recently, and let's just say I didn't miss my 6D). The reason you won't find many great shots on the Internet is because there aren't many good/pro photographers that use it (yet), like say a 5D3.

[TheRenaissanceMan]

Many reviews have put the NX1 right up there with some FF cameras in terms of stills IQ. Go search the NX1 or NX500 on Flickr and you'll see tons of great work from that sensor. 

In terms of future-proofing, I've found the Blackmagic cameras to hold up the best. They're defined more by the support gear you attack then by the camera itself, and 12-bit RAW/10-bit Prores 422 isn't getting old anytime soon. You even have the option of 1080p, 2.5K, and 4K, and two different flexible form factors. 

Mattias recently posted a shootout between four cameras without telling anyone what they were. The most popular camera, the one everyone praised as being extremely detailed with great dynamic range, even going so far as to guess it as the BMPC, A7S, GH4, or NX1, was...the Blackmagic Pocket. So if even us camera dorks who spend our leisure time picking out nuances in footage can't tell what's 1080p and what's not, I doubt that extra resolution will make or break your work. Unless you want the ability to cut in to close-up and MCU from a medium shot or want the extra resolution to stabilize, 4K isn't a necessity for anything these days. 

Thanks to the Speedbooster system, you can even invest in larger format glass, use it effectively on your smaller sensor camera, and keep that investment if you ever decide to buy a larger-sensor camera. That's why I like to avoid buying the latest, greatest, most amazing cameras. I invest in great glass, then buy the sub-$500 clearance cameras like the G6 and jump on sales like the BMPCC $495. Instead of a nicer, higher-res camera, I bought lights, reflectors, diffusers, filters, a nice fluid head tripod, an external audio recorder, a lavalier mic, upgraded PC components, and a nicer editing monitor. Next up on my list is grading software, Speedlooks' LUT package, Neat Video V4, an external field monitor, and some online editing/color correction tutorials.

That stuff, along with experience and problem-solving skills, will always outshine whatever sensor is in your camera. Besides, renting bodies is cheap. 

[Mattias Burling]

One could argue that people found the super cheap gm1 the best since it scored similar to the bmpcc and beat it in the detailed shot.

But I agree,  blackmagic is good stuff.

[ricardo_sousa11]

I did saw Mattias burling (I even tried to guess), but to be fair there really wasnt any other "big" camera on the test, the test was between BMPCC, GM1, D16 and HMC151, to I cant compare it to others.

The black magic is indeed a great camera (I was going to jump on it when it was 50% off) but for the price, I believe there are better options. 

 

After checking Flickr (how could I forget) for the NX1, I really am impressed by its stills, it seems to be very very capable. I will be looking at the NX500 as well, I discarded that little camera, but it might be worth my while.

[Mattias Burling]

If you're interested I did a test with the NX1, LX100 and the Production Camera. 

 

[ricardo_sousa11]

If you're interested I did a test with the NX1, LX100 and the Production Camera. 

 

​I had seen it already (I think i've seen all of your videos ! )

I really like the colors on the Black Magic, but the NX1 seems to be the sharpest of the bunch (some shots seem to be out of focus though), also saw your review of the NX1 (actually one of the best reviews i've seen on that little monster). The only downside is the rolling shutter, way too prominent and considering the processor the NX1 has, it doesnt really make sense, lets hope they can reduce it in the next firmware updates.

 

BTW, love your dog !!!

[Mattias Burling]

​I had seen it already (I think i've seen all of your videos ! )

I really like the colors on the Black Magic, but the NX1 seems to be the sharpest of the bunch (some shots seem to be out of focus though), also saw your review of the NX1 (actually one of the best reviews i've seen on that little monster). The only downside is the rolling shutter, way too prominent and considering the processor the NX1 has, it doesnt really make sense, lets hope they can reduce it in the next firmware updates.

 

BTW, love your dog !!!

Thanks,  dog says thanks to

I think the rolling shutter is what it is and wouldn't get my hopes up that they will fix it. 

[ricardo_sousa11]

Thanks,  dog says thanks to

I think the rolling shutter is what it is and wouldn't get my hopes up that they will fix it. 

​Is it that noticeable at 1080p though ?

[Mattias Burling]

​Is it that noticeable at 1080p though ?

Don't know, never tried

[maxotics]

Ricardo, if you work primarily in video and you want the best 4K camera then I follow your logic with the NX1.  However, I couldn't agree with TheRenaissanceMan more.  There's a whole lot more that goes into a final product than the image recorded in a camera body.  Consider this, a RAW based camera (BM or Canon with ML for example), records 14bit values at every pixel.   That means when you debayer each pixel you end up with 42bits of FULL color information.  In consumer video cameras, like the NX1, the camera takes each 12 bits from each pixel and combines them IN CAMERA with other pixels to create a 24bit FULL color value.  Those values are then further compressed into a video stream.  It doesn't matter if everyone has 4K video monitors in 2 years, say, 1080 video from a RAW camera will often be superior because most good video is shot for EMOTION, not resolution.  And filmic EMOTIONAL range needs dynamic range, NOT sharpness IMHO.

If you look at Oliver's reel you'll see simply amazing stuff, most of it shot with a GH3 (similar to the g6), which I believe will STAND THE TEST of time. 

If you want a super-sharp, high contrast look, then sounds like the NX1 camera is the one for you.  If you want to shoot a wedding scene of a couple alone in a church, say and you want a little hair light, you'll wish you had a G6 and a small good quality LED light on a stand.  No matter how good a camera is, if you can't light it the camera can't see it!

What I loved about Mattias's video comparison is that, really, ALL the cameras were good!

 

 

[MattH]

​Is it that noticeable at 1080p though ?

​If you mean recording in 1080p then the rolling shutter is excellent in that mode.  About 5ms which is Alexa speed.

If you mean downscaling from 4k and viewing at 1080p, it makes no difference. You will still get the 4k rolling shutter.

I assume you mean the first, but I thought I'd cover the bases.

[ricardo_sousa11]

Ricardo, if you work primarily in video and you want the best 4K camera then I follow your logic with the NX1.  However, I couldn't agree with TheRenaissanceMan more.  There's a whole lot more that goes into a final product than the image recorded in a camera body.  Consider this, a RAW based camera (BM or Canon with ML for example), records 14bit values at every pixel.   That means when you debayer each pixel you end up with 42bits of FULL color information.  In consumer video cameras, like the NX1, the camera takes each 12 bits from each pixel and combines them IN CAMERA with other pixels to create a 24bit FULL color value.  Those values are then further compressed into a video stream.  It doesn't matter if everyone has 4K video monitors in 2 years, say, 1080 video from a RAW camera will often be superior because most good video is shot for EMOTION, not resolution.  And filmic EMOTIONAL range needs dynamic range, NOT sharpness IMHO.

If you look at Oliver's reel you'll see simply amazing stuff, most of it shot with a GH3 (similar to the g6), which I believe will STAND THE TEST of time. 

If you want a super-sharp, high contrast look, then sounds like the NX1 camera is the one for you.  If you want to shoot a wedding scene of a couple alone in a church, say and you want a little hair light, you'll wish you had a G6 and a small good quality LED light on a stand.  No matter how good a camera is, if you can't light it the camera can't see it!

What I loved about Mattias's video comparison is that, really, ALL the cameras were good!

 

 

​I follow you, hence my hesitation and inclusion of the 5DM3, I fear the NX1 look would be too "digital", with oversharpening and over saturation, but with the new firmware updates, it seems all of that is gone, and it seems easy to grade.

 

The look/grade im looking for is something like this :

 

Detail preservation is good, so is color grading, but where I live, and my market place, some people care about resolution, or need high resolutions. I have lost jobs for not having 4k, and they would hire someone with some crappy camcorder that did 4k and be left with a terrible job. For my 1080p is still great, but having that extra detail preservation can be essencial in some types of works (architectural for example).

[AaronChicago]

Hey man. I see alot of good advice here but I wanted to throw something out that worked for me for awhile. If your budget is $2500 or so get 2 cameras that check off all of your needs. G7 for convenience, long battery life, ease of use, 4k recording, etc. Blackmagic pocket camera for when you need top notch image quality with 10 bit ProRes or RAW. I believe with those 2 cameras you'd have all of your bases covered. Those 2 cameras plus a speedbooster would hit around $2500.

[ricardo_sousa11]

Hey man. I see alot of good advice here but I wanted to throw something out that worked for me for awhile. If your budget is $2500 or so get 2 cameras that check off all of your needs. G7 for convenience, long battery life, ease of use, 4k recording, etc. Blackmagic pocket camera for when you need top notch image quality with 10 bit ProRes or RAW. I believe with those 2 cameras you'd have all of your bases covered. Those 2 cameras plus a speedbooster would hit around $2500.

​My budget for camera is 1,5k the other 1k is for a new capable desktop to help with the editing.

[fuzzynormal]

I would like to add that the Socality spot is unintentionally hilarious/sad to me.  

That production style, hirsutiness, and general level of narcissistic aestheticism is a parody of itself.  Pretty youth preening towards the camera.  It's such a common trope, if an enduring one.  The irony being that this particular organization is all about faith community so you'd think they'd be a little less wrapped up in that nonsense.  But nope.  Looking pretty on camera is more important than doing the nitty gritty humanitarian stuff, apparently.

Just reading the founder's bio is a slog of first-person navel gazing accented with an image involving a heap of styling gel.

Just one of the silly things you can get away with when young I guess --while us old farts roll our eyes with bemused nostalgia.  Alright, off my soap box...and I'll leave that tangent alone from now on.  Sorry for the rant.

Oh, btw, buy any camera.  Whatever you get it'll be perfectly fine.  You can do those types of grades with just about anything.  If you're gonna crush the dynamic range like that, you should concentrate more on your post-production skills rather than the particulars of acquisition!