LUMIX S9 drops recording limits.

[newfoundmass]

The whole external fan thing rubs me the wrong way. You shouldn't have to spend hundreds of dollars to get consistent and reliable record times. But as we saw with the S9, if you put recording limits you get bashed. Still, it's insane to me that you have to buy an external device to ensure reliability.

 

[MrSMW]

This external fan thing is a bit of a nonsense.

It’s like raging because the Golf GTI is not as fast as a Porsche 911 GT3. Well doh!

Like everything in this world, the less you spend, the less you get and the lowest priced things cannot be expected to compete with the highest priced stuff!

My rule of thumb is that most things can be competitive with most things one class up or one class down, but two classes different is too much.

So an example in Cameraland, might be X-M5 vs S9 vs S5iii.

The X-M5 is competitive with the S9 and there are pros and cons to each, but other than size & weight (which is a whole different thing), the X-M5 is not competitive with the S5ii.

S5ii vs Komodo vs Arri… 

There are levels.

[IronFilm]

6 hours ago, John Matthews said:

180g and 190 euros. Ouch. Add a tripod and gimbal and you have what the S5ii has integrated into its body, minus the FF sensor and EVF. More and more I'm thinking that the X-M5 is a camera you just take it as it is or you upgrade, but don't get accessories because your final kit will twice the size of the camera with those features integrated, notably the S5ii.

Yeah the price is a bit nuts, but I'd hope if the X-M5 is gangbusters popular then a third party will make it for half the cost, or even a quarter of the cost. 

So you can rig it up with the fan if you need it, but also you can strip it down and go lightweight (maybe you're just going to be a tourist and take a few snaps during your trip). 

 

[John Matthews]

4 hours ago, IronFilm said:

So you can rig it up with the fan if you need it, but also you can strip it down and go lightweight (maybe you're just going to be a tourist and take a few snaps during your trip). 

That's a good point and I have no experience with that. I only know that YouTube videos showing such are slow and tedious. If we're talking 2 minutes, why not? If we're talking 20-30 minutes, it would be highly annoying and I'd probably just rely on my phone. :(

[ac6000cw]

11 hours ago, John Matthews said:

180g and 190 euros. Ouch. Add a tripod and gimbal and you have what the S5ii has integrated into its body, minus the FF sensor and EVF. More and more I'm thinking that the X-M5 is a camera you just take it as it is or you upgrade, but don't get accessories because your final kit will twice the size of the camera with those features integrated, notably the S5ii.

Or just buy an X-S20 instead, which has IBIS and EVF.

[John Matthews]

1 hour ago, ac6000cw said:

Or just buy an X-S20 instead, which has IBIS and EVF.

Exactly. That's what I was saying. I only mention the S5ii because that's what I have.

[ac6000cw]

Panasonic has added a new S9 firmware update 1.2 to replace the withdrawn FW 1.1:

Quote

Oct. 18, 2024
Ver. 1.2 Improved the stability of firmware updates via Wi-Fi (LUMIX Lab/LUMIX Sync).

* Updating to Version 1.2 will improve future firmware update stability for updates performed via Wi-Fi.

* Firmware Version 1.2 also includes the items, functions and features that were included in Version 1.1.

 

[eatstoomuchjam]

On 10/17/2024 at 10:36 PM, John Matthews said:

More and more I'm thinking that the X-M5 is a camera you just take it as it is or you upgrade, but don't get accessories because your final kit will twice the size of the camera with those features integrated, notably the S5ii.

That's basically why I ended up ditching my Sigma fp and fp-l.  By the time they were set up for any sort of reasonable shooting (external SSD + screen), they ended up a lot bigger than my Canon R5 (internal raw, screen can be rotated).

[PannySVHS]

On 10/18/2024 at 5:22 PM, ac6000cw said:

Or just buy an X-S20 instead, which has IBIS and EVF.

But then I read about the overheating issues, in cases shutting off after 10min of filming. I think a few people here have a XS20. So maybe they can chim in. Our friend and Eoshd contributor has reported in depth about the lacking chroma detail in the red channel. @Attila Bakos

A used Lumix S5 looks more attractive to me, though bigger, but small for what it does, which is great image quality due to its exellent digital pipeline, reliable performance without overheating, 10bit 4k60 apsc, FF open gate, great size and ergo over all.

Ibis on the Fuji has been reported as lacking compared to Panny.

[John Matthews]

1 hour ago, PannySVHS said:

But then I read about the overheating issues, in cases shutting off after 10min of filming. I think a few people here have a XS20. So maybe they can chim in. Our friend and Eoshd contributor has reported in depth about the lacking chroma detail in the red channel. @Attila Bakos

A used Lumix S5 looks more attractive to me, though bigger, but small for what it does, which is great image quality due to its exellent digital pipeline, reliable performance without overheating, 10bit 4k60 apsc, FF open gate, great size and ergo over all.

Ibis on the Fuji has been reported as lacking compared to Panny.

After thinking a lot about it, I do think the S5 (original) is where it's at in terms of value. I'd rather deal with manual focus than tripods and gimbals.

[Attila Bakos]

58 minutes ago, PannySVHS said:

But then I read about the overheating issues, in cases shutting off after 10min of filming. I think a few people here have a XS20. So maybe they can chim in. Our friend and Eoshd contributor has reported in depth about the lacking chroma detail in the red channel. @Attila Bakos

A used Lumix S5 looks more attractive to me, though bigger, but small for what it does, which is great image quality due to its exellent digital pipeline, reliable performance without overheating, 10bit 4k60 apsc, FF open gate, great size and ergo over all.

Ibis on the Fuji has been reported as lacking compared to Panny.

It's actually the Cr and Cb channels of the YCbCr stream that are heavily compressed, and RGB is constructed from those.
I was quite surprised when I checked the chroma details on my S5IIx. It's as bad as Fuji's. It was really clean with the initial firmware, but some of the updates "fixed" it. So I'd do some tests before jumping to Panasonic, if chroma detail is important to you.

[PannySVHS]

I didn't know about this issue with the update. Even moreso, the original S5 seems a very compelling choice as a personal camera.@Attila Bakos Not even to speak about used market prices. S5D, or whatever the relaunched original S5 is called, should have been updated with a full Hdmi to make it suitable for hasslefree wireless video monitoring and being the perfect entry into A Cam territory for a variety of film and video work. Micro Hdmi on an otherwise nearly perfect Dslm is still a heartbreaker. S1 is too big. S1H, though just as big, feels like a marvel and kinda worth the weight. Still, og S5 with full hdmi, so compelling to think of.

[newfoundmass]

The S5 is a really great value, especially used. The AF isn't nearly as bad as people say, and manual focusing is a dream. There are better cameras out there but none of them are a better value. There has never been a better option for budget filmmaking IMO and I'd be hard pressed to say that any other camera out right now is worth the price difference on what you'd pay for this camera used. 

Think about what we paid for our first "real" camera and then think about how you can get a used full frame camera with pretty much every pro feature you could ask for for like $1000 USD used. 10 years ago my mind would have been unable to comprehend the value that is the S5 in 2024.

I very much like my S5II X and will likely switch out my two S5 bodies for two S5II bodies in the next couple of years, but I do like the image out of the original S5 more. It's just really pleasing. No longer needing to color match them and enjoying the quality of life upgrades on the S5II outweighs the better image, but the S5II image is more than "good enough."

I think I'll also end up probably getting an S9 as a personal/super low profile camera. It's actually nearly the perfect BTS/social media camera for my event shoots. Being able to hand it off to someone to film content for our IG, Facebook, and YouTube reels would be really great since it can shoot in open gate and be cropped for each platform. 

[Beritar]

12 hours ago, PannySVHS said:

I didn't know about this issue with the update. Even moreso, the original S5 seems a very compelling choice as a personal camera.@Attila Bakos Not even to speak about used market prices. S5D, or whatever the relaunched original S5 is called, should have been updated with a full Hdmi to make it suitable for hasslefree wireless video monitoring and being the perfect entry into A Cam territory for a variety of film and video work. Micro Hdmi on an otherwise nearly perfect Dslm is still a heartbreaker. S1 is too big. S1H, though just as big, feels like a marvel and kinda worth the weight. Still, og S5 with full hdmi, so compelling to think of.

Yes, the S5 is still a great camera, AF-C s is pretty bad with most Sigma DG DN lenses though.
I prefer the S5 to my S5II, but I like the S1 even more, the 5,9K and Open Gate are crazy good, nicer image quality than the S5II, better detail (like a raw file), no oversharpening and no chroma noise reduction. The image is very similar to the Nikon Z6III 6k raw, but with slightly better IBIS and of course worse AF.

[PannySVHS]

But S5 and S1 have they same processing and image, right? @Beritar Doesn't the og S5 also sport open gate? Have you encountered pinkish blotches/posterization on evenly lit skin in Vlog 10bit 422 150mbit? It occured to me when filming skin with heavy makeup. HLG in that mode seemed without it. I always loved the GH5 in HLG in 10bit HD All-Intra btw. Beautiful image.

[newfoundmass]

8 hours ago, Beritar said:

Yes, the S5 is still a great camera, AF-C s is pretty bad with most Sigma DG DN lenses though.

That is probably why my experience hasn't been too bad with the S5 AF, as I use the Lumix lenses. The S5II X is leagues better, for sure, but I've always found the S5's auto focus to be pretty decent once you realize the limitations. The only time I'd consider it unusable is in low light and when you shoot wide open with a faster lens and are trying to track a subject that is moving around a bit. With my event shooting though I'm not shooting wide open very often unless I really need the light, because I don't really need/want shallow depth of field.

[Beritar]

19 hours ago, PannySVHS said:

But S5 and S1 have they same processing and image, right? @Beritar Doesn't the og S5 also sport open gate? Have you encountered pinkish blotches/posterization on evenly lit skin in Vlog 10bit 422 150mbit? It occured to me when filming skin with heavy makeup. HLG in that mode seemed without it. I always loved the GH5 in HLG in 10bit HD All-Intra btw. Beautiful image.

Yes they use the same processing. The S5 only has the 6K photo mode which is more 5K and cropped, nothing comparable to the Open Gate of the S1 and S1H. On the S5 and S1, I never seen posterization on skin but I mostly shoot below 2000 ISO.
Yes HLG on the GH5 was great, even more when using the 5,2K 4:3 Open Gate mode. No oversharpening, detailed but very natural image, more than the recent Panasonic cameras.

[Beritar]

14 hours ago, newfoundmass said:

That is probably why my experience hasn't been too bad with the S5 AF, as I use the Lumix lenses. The S5II X is leagues better, for sure, but I've always found the S5's auto focus to be pretty decent once you realize the limitations. The only time I'd consider it unusable is in low light and when you shoot wide open with a faster lens and are trying to track a subject that is moving around a bit. With my event shooting though I'm not shooting wide open very often unless I really need the light, because I don't really need/want shallow depth of field.

Yes when using my S Pro 24-70mm, my S1 and S5 are good enough, even with Open gate on my S1, and yet Open Gate has slower AF.
However lenses like the 35mm DG DN f2/f1.4/f1.2 are almost useless. Only the S5II(X) has very fast AF with these lenses, but I can't stand the image quality of this camera.

[Thpriest]

I regret not picking up an S9 with the 20-60 that was open box for 1200. Having recently bought a secondhand GX80 with unlimited 4K recording (I used to have one before moving to FF) I have been reminded of the joys of small powerful cameras. I’d love a new GX80 with PDAF etc but meanwhile I’ll keep an eye out for a S9 to go with my S5mk2. I would happy sell my S5 og because I don’t like having to waste time matching the cameras and to lighten my backpack. Has anyone tried the Sigma APSC lenses? The 10-18 and 18-50 for 4K 50p?

[MrSMW]

If anyone wishes to buy one for a very reasonable price, I have a spare 20-60.

A battery grip also.

About to offload some kit to MPB.

EU only!