Super Members Mattias Burling Posted July 2, 2015 Super Members Share Posted July 2, 2015 Did a test at home just to get a reference and thought I share the results.Cameras: BMPCC, D16Mics: Electro Voice 635A, Sennheiser MKE600, Zoom H1The BMPCC needs lots of gain in post as expected, the D16 does not. Nikkor 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ebrahim Saadawi Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 One simply does not record audio on the pocket camera God that sound is hideous. It sounds worse than a Canon DSLR. D16, great audio! Big plus there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Members Mattias Burling Posted July 2, 2015 Author Super Members Share Posted July 2, 2015 One simply does not record audio on the pocket camera God that sound is hideous. It sounds worse than a Canon DSLR. D16, great audio! Big plus there. I think it's good enough for ambient coupled with external for dialog. And also with a small juiced link it becomes very usable, as showed in "The One".But all in all you right, bmpcc, bmcc, A7s, 5dmkiii, gh4 and so on all need external recording for clean dialog. If it ain't got xlr, don't botter imo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ebrahim Saadawi Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Yes true that. But from my testing, I could always record acceptable enough audio with any of the other cameras like the Canons, the Nikons, the GH4, but the drop is the pocket camera is like an elaboratr oke, the unit I tested at least sounded like a phone conversation no matter how I adjust it using the Rode Vid. Pro with 20db Gain post, under the same conditions all these other cameras do just fine, not great, but fine. All in all, when a company as small as Zoom, can produce a high quality Audio recorder like the Zoom H1 for 100$ with superb professional-level quality, why can enormous camera manufacturers include a similar audio recording device/sectiom inside their thousands-of-dollars cameras (that are large enough to fit a zoom H4n in there yet their audio is still crap!)Can anyone tell camera manufacturers we're tired of syncing in post especially since it's so obvious building a decent recording system is so easy? Don't they realize a video camera needs to have the ability to be used separately as a professional audio recorder? Sometimes it feels it's crippling done on purpose actually. In case anyone wondering, there are Cameras that do get audio right and can be used as high-end audio devices: 1 -C100 and C300, even through the 3.5mm mic jack without the entire top XLR audio module, it sounds brilliant. With the module, even more brilliant, XLRs and phantom power and physical knobs visually corresponding to each channel. 2 -Sony A7s when coupled with their XLR audio top module: it sounds brilliant, a tiny tad worse than C100/300 but not a difference a viewer would hear. Leaps and bounds better than A7s barebones which is close to Canon DSLR quality, that top device makes a big difference and transforms it into a very audio capable device. 3 -GH4 when coupled with the YAGH brick, again sound is brilliant. The barebones GH4 sounds Canon DSLR league but with the brick it's C100/300 level. At first there was some frustrating delay and monitoring issues but they were fixed. Two XLRs + Phantom power and meters and knobs are great. Big chunk of cash and big chunk of plastic underneath the camera though and needs a V-lock on rails, absolutely ridiculous when you see the Sony solution. It's better than nothing anyhow. I guess we can add the D16 to the list of good audio cameras based on your tests, but I haven't tested it. Reds and C500 and Arris and FS7, FS100, FS700, F5/55/65/35, are all ones I've never has an audio test with but I am sure they are Cx00 level and more, The Cameras that don't have decent audio recorders from worst to better: 1 - Pocket Camera takes the no. 1 spot in my opinion. Don't record sound into that thing just plug your microphone to a zoom h1 please!2 -Canon DSLRs take the no. 2 worst spot in my opinion. Since the 550D, no changes in audio quality for 6 years now, just terrible barely usable sound. Video Mic Pro with the 20db gain going into it while keeping the levels down help but still, horrible for anything serious especially on such scale of camera level, 5D, 1Dx and 1Dc. 3 -Nikon DSLRs take the no. 3 worst spot in my opinion. In their earlier models, the D3100, D3200, D5100, D5200, D7000, D600, D800, D3s, D300s, D90, these cameras had worse audio quality than Canon DSLRs, but the new generation of their cameras like the D5300/5500 and D7100 and D810 actually have an improvement and now beat canon in pure audio quality, it's really quite acceptable. Not great, just fine. better than Canon. I consider my self an audio ignorant, and I actually like that I am not interested or into sound engineering and the whole aspect of it is not at all something I even like to talk about, but I like that, as it allows me to test these recorders from a neutral, normal viewer point-of-view. I just record and listen to see which sounds better! No waveforms, graphs, noise floor analysis, DR peaking tests, just how they sound. And to be honest, for non XLR mics, a Zoom H1 is better than all of these camera, by miles in audio clarity and sound ''cleanness'', and for XLRs, an H4n or H6 is better than all the above mentioned expensive proprietry solution, just sync, A little rant about audio and camera manufacturers. *Audio is something camera companies are mostly ignorant of, they don't see it, they are not shooters, just engineers who don't understand how we want to get high quality in-camera audio, they don't understand what good enough audio is, they just work on making the press happy. Other things as well as audio are like battery lifes, how long the freaking device can run before it turns into a plastic brick, media sizes, reliability, availability and prices, how the UI interacts with the human brain, how the body curves with our hands, how fast it is to boot and change settings, how many buttons are on there, their locations, they accessibility in the dark, how many mounting points for accessories there are, where they're placed, how the grip attaches and adjusts to one's arms and palms, they forget all of these vital vital elements and go after headline grabbing features like higher resolution, Raw, DR, well I can't use any of these if my camera's power shuts off in the field, or if I can't get the shot in the right time, an 18 stops of highlights recovery is absolutely useless to me there. Make you cameras right, for us, for how we ''USE'' them, not for how your engineers test them on tripods in your labs shooting charts and plugged into walls. It's the little things that can ruin an other wise perfect product, like a super nice BMW but you know the seat hurts your back, or it needs a trip to the gas station every few hours, no thank you I'll have my Toyota no matter how the bimmer is better in most ways, this is what makes a camera like the C100/300 and GH4 successfull as they are, they address all of these ''usage'', they are made to help you shoot, not for you to help it shoot like a BM or a Red or a DSLR p, etc, Rant over, Thanks for the tests. I find all your YT channel enjoyable. Keep it up there it's going to bs something very soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Members Mattias Burling Posted July 2, 2015 Author Super Members Share Posted July 2, 2015 Wow, long post, but good stuff It's all about cost and use. No point in putting good audio in a cinema camera since an external recorder will be better in every single way. I always record important audio externally no matter how good the audio in the camera is. If nothing else just to not having cables hanging of the camera. In a run n gun situation it might be different and for that there are plenty of options like fs100 or c100 and D16 or URSA as "cinema hybrids".A few experiences from me of the gear you mention, the h4n sucks and I would never touch it. Also I don't think the Rode Video Mic Pro is any good, much better of with an H1.Outside of work it's a bit of a hobby of mine to shoot good video at low cost. But having spent most of my years working in radio my view of audio is that there is good, usable or crap. Nothing else. That's why a gh4+mke600 and a pocket+h1+mke600 is the same imo. Usable but not good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRenaissanceMan Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 A few experiences from me of the gear you mention, the h4n sucks and I would never touch it. Also I don't think the Rode Video Mic Pro is any good, much better of with an H1.Just curious since I'm not as up on audio equipment, but what's wrong with the H4N? I've heard pretty good things about it from other people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Members Mattias Burling Posted July 2, 2015 Author Super Members Share Posted July 2, 2015 Just curious since I'm not as up on audio equipment, but what's wrong with the H4N? I've heard pretty good things about it from other people.It is probably the one piece of equipment that has caused the most dissapointed threads on forums. It is poorly constructed and it's amps are about as strong as the BMPCCs. To get any sort of good audio you need a really sensitive mic. I could write pages about it but so many has already so it's best to thoroughly research before a purchase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercer Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 How is the H2, or H2N? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Members Mattias Burling Posted July 2, 2015 Author Super Members Share Posted July 2, 2015 How is the H2, or H2N?The h2n is a good mic, I had it once.But its not suitable for filmmakers with its formfactor and no XLRs. It's great for interviews, round tables, music and such. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRenaissanceMan Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 It is probably the one piece of equipment that has caused the most dissapointed threads on forums. It is poorly constructed and it's amps are about as strong as the BMPCCs. To get any sort of good audio you need a really sensitive mic. I could write pages about it but so many has already so it's best to thoroughly research before a purchase. Aww man. Is the H5 any better? I've got to start picking your brain on audio... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Members Mattias Burling Posted July 3, 2015 Author Super Members Share Posted July 3, 2015 Haven't tried the h5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregormannschaft Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 Gonna drag this up as the conversation was interesting and I'm currently purchasing my sound setup after MUCH deliberation.I need a good all in one field solution for capturing audio on the go with my A7S II. One setup I'm looking at is the camera + Tascam DR-100 Mk.II on the rig + Sennheiser MKE 600 shotgun mic plugged into the Tascam. It'll be a dual audio setup which might be a pain in post with syncing.The other option is getting the XLR module for the A7S II, but my problem with that is the mic it ships with is useless and is a very specific thing to buy for the cost. The Tascam I can use for many, many years and resell if I have to. The XLR module could lose value and become obsolete much easier.Not sure if anyone knows, but an XLR mic linked up to an audio recorder couldnt be triggered from the camera...right? I also went for the Sennheiser as that seemed to be the most well reviewed shotgun mics out there for the price. I was considering the Rode NTG4+ but it's very long and the Sennheiser seemed to beat it slightly in reviews.Looking at this Tilta rig right now, because it looks beautfiul and I love that wooden handle: http://cvp.com/index.php?t=product/tilta_es-t17-aLav wise I'll have a couple of Rode SmartLavs plugged into Zoom H1s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Members Mattias Burling Posted January 12, 2016 Author Super Members Share Posted January 12, 2016 Ive been very happy with the Tascam DR100ii + MKE600 combo. Use it in all kinds of configurations including running the MKE straight in a D750 for really nice ambience. Gregormannschaft 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregormannschaft Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 Ive been very happy with the Tascam DR100ii + MKE600 combo. Use it in all kinds of configurations including running the MKE straight in a D750 for really nice ambience.Nice! Great to hear of some good experiences with that combo, took me ages to whittle down the list and move away from the H4n. Do you think the Tascam might be a little too big to secure to a cage? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Members Mattias Burling Posted January 12, 2016 Author Super Members Share Posted January 12, 2016 Nope, its not much bigger than a H4n. Ive had it on cages, in cold shoes, on magic arms and what have you.Its internal mics are also very good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregormannschaft Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 Nope, its not much bigger than a H4n. Ive had it on cages, in cold shoes, on magic arms and what have you.Its internal mics are also very good.Brilliant, appreciate the reply, big help and feel better about plumping down the cash on these things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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