X-M5 New Fujifilm Creator Focused Camera

[IronFilm]

 

21 hours ago, MrSMW said:

D. Panasonic’s market share is lower than Fujis with Fujis image increasing (TikTok X100 just one example) whereas LUMIX has flatlined at best. Without a halo product in an S2R or S2H very soon, they risk cardiac arrest as even within The Community, folks WILL increasingly jump ship. It’s a dog eat dog world and folks generally do not back losers and LUMIX is in very real danger of being seen as a basket case.

Ideally Panasonic should have two "flagship" products, one for enthusiasts to eat up and another for influencers to love. 

I guess they hoped the S5mk2 and S9 would be that. But the S5mk2 wasn't an S1Hmk2, and the S9 is a little too pricey. 

Fujfilm is dominating the influencer segment with their X100 series and now the X-M5. A new X-H3S could see them run away with the enthusiasts end of the hybrid shooters segment as well. 

I could say similarly for Sony too, the likes of Sony ZV-E10 + Sony ZV-1  + Sony ZV-1F have seen Sony be very popular with the vloggers / "influencers" / social media "content creators". While of course with the Sony FX30 / FX3 they've been crushing it for the more serious enthusiasts / semi pros.  

18 hours ago, Ninpo33 said:

Specs are solid but that is not a “prosumer” camera. S9 is not a prosumer camera. FX30, FX3, X-H2s, S5iix is what I think most people would classify as “prosumer”.

 

I agree.

 

[Alt Shoo]

On 10/17/2024 at 6:39 AM, BTM_Pix said:

To be fair, their own product page for the S9 certainly says otherwise though.

It’s all about the casual shooter.

Particularly the crossed out edit graphic.

I don’t disagree that it does a lot more but that’s what they’re aiming at based on their own marketing.

Which is another aspect of the bundled launch in not having the right lenses or the right type of “reviewers” there.

They hedged their bets and it all just looked very confused.

Plus, the S5ii 😉

 

https://www.panasonic.com/uk/consumer/cameras-camcorders/lumix-mirrorless-cameras/lumix-s-full-frame-cameras/dc-s9.html

I get it, but here’s the thing, while Panasonic’s marketing for the S9 does mention the casual shooter, the features they’ve packed into it are clearly aimed at more advanced users. That’s where the confusion comes in. Panasonic seems to be trying to appeal to both casual users and professionals, but the camera’s actual design and capabilities are more aligned with the needs of the pros. It’s a bit of mixed messaging. They’re promoting it broadly, but in reality, the features go far beyond what most casual shooters are looking for.

The launch only added to this confusion by targeting the wrong lenses and reviewers, which didn’t align with casual users. So, while the marketing might say “casual,” the S9’s functionality clearly points to a more advanced audience. And that brings it to another frustration. Panasonic’s split between MFT and L-Mount. Instead of unifying their systems, they’re pushing L-Mount for full-frame, which leaves Micro Four Thirds users feeling a bit sidelined.

It would’ve been smarter to find a way to make L-Mount lenses compatible with MFT bodies via an adapter. Sure, there are technical challenges, like the difference in sensor size and flange distance, but companies like Metabones have shown that it’s possible. If Panasonic had figured out a way to bridge the gap, it would have been much easier for users who are invested in both systems. Instead, we’re left juggling two separate ecosystems, which doesn’t feel necessary when both could benefit from more seamless integration.

[John Matthews]

50 minutes ago, Alt Shoo said:

I get it, but here’s the thing, while Panasonic’s marketing for the S9 does mention the casual shooter, the features they’ve packed into it are clearly aimed at more advanced users. That’s where the confusion comes in. Panasonic seems to be trying to appeal to both casual users and professionals, but the camera’s actual design and capabilities are more aligned with the needs of the pros. It’s a bit of mixed messaging. They’re promoting it broadly, but in reality, the features go far beyond what most casual shooters are looking for.

The launch only added to this confusion by targeting the wrong lenses and reviewers, which didn’t align with casual users. So, while the marketing might say “casual,” the S9’s functionality clearly points to a more advanced audience. And that brings it to another frustration. Panasonic’s split between MFT and L-Mount. Instead of unifying their systems, they’re pushing L-Mount for full-frame, which leaves Micro Four Thirds users feeling a bit sidelined.

It would’ve been smarter to find a way to make L-Mount lenses compatible with MFT bodies via an adapter. Sure, there are technical challenges, like the difference in sensor size and flange distance, but companies like Metabones have shown that it’s possible. If Panasonic had figured out a way to bridge the gap, it would have been much easier for users who are invested in both systems. Instead, we’re left juggling two separate ecosystems, which doesn’t feel necessary when both could benefit from more seamless integration.

The S9 was a debacle from conception to their current marketing of the camera. Many of the people invited to the event were so surprised that they thought the S9 was completely thrown together at the last minute. Many have the theory that another camera that was meant for the event, but something went horribly wrong just before and it was too late to cancel. The result was a shotgun wedding called the S9.

[MrSMW]

The S9 is not a ‘pro’ camera.

It can be used in a professional capacity by a professional user, but no way is it aimed for such.

It’s more a ‘high end interchangeable lens compact’ really.

Yes you can stick a big cine or tele lens on it, but it would be so compromised as a result, why would you? 

[Marcio Kabke Pinheiro]

On 10/16/2024 at 1:24 PM, John Matthews said:

I still haven’t seen a single YouTuber talk about the S9 who wasn’t given one for free. Has anyone? Yet, Sean from Panasonic says they’re selling like crazy, along with the G100. It must be an alternate universe thing.

Same here, but not impossible.

Here in this forum nobody talks about the ZV-E10 I and II, and probably is the most sold Sony camera, in number of units. In a "creator" group that I was some time ago, the ZV-E10 was the camera from about 80% of the users. And the ones that started to make money, updated to the FX30 or FX3.

[Ninpo33]

There are a lot of people talking about it online that didn’t get it for free. Obviously there was the first wave of influencers that got it early but after people started  buying it and posting. I’ve seen 5 or 6 YouTubers that review stuff from their own purchases or rentals. 
 

As someone who shoots 75% video and 25% stills or so, the S9 is a perfectly fine camera. It now can be picked up new open box for around $1,100 sometimes with a lens. Mini 6k open gate anamorphic footage with amazing IBIS is a deal for that price. 

 

[BTM_Pix]

Went here today where they had hands on units.

It feels *maybe* a little narrow but a small grip will sort that.

My advice is if you don’t want to buy it then for God’s sake don’t have a play with it because you will very likely walk out with one.

Unfortunately, they aren’t released here for another week by which time I’ll be back on Monkey Island so without a pre-order I expect I won’t see one available for a while.

Incidentally, the orders for the X100vi are still suspended even here in FujiFilm’s own flagship place so you have to wonder at how fluid the supply of the new camera will be too.

 

[Ninpo33]

2 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

Unfortunately, they aren’t released here for another week by which time I’ll be back on Monkey Island so without a pre-order I expect I won’t see one available for a while.

Incidentally, the orders for the X100vi are still suspended even here in FujiFilm’s own flagship place so you have to wonder at how fluid the supply of the new camera will be too.

 

I was told the all black version will be coming to the U.S. a bit later but I’m seeing a bunch of them in the wild. I couldn’t pass up a $500 LUMIX S5 this week so I’ll have to wait on the X-M5 till after the holidays anyway. Hoping they don’t have the same shortages as the X100 series. 

[MrSMW]

I’m not sure whether the supply issues with these things is a good or a bad thing…

For me, it is a negative and I would not wait endless months for something.

Not that I am impatient, but with the X100V it pushed prices to silly levels and it almost (or is) a case of folks becoming desperate to buy a thing at any price, just because it’s popular.

 

[Ninpo33]

19 hours ago, MrSMW said:

I’m not sure whether the supply issues with these things is a good or a bad thing…

For me, it is a negative and I would not wait endless months for something.

Not that I am impatient, but with the X100V it pushed prices to silly levels and it almost (or is) a case of folks becoming desperate to buy a thing at any price, just because it’s popular.

 

Oh yeah, I can’t be bothered with any of that nonsense. I do want to play with it pretty badly with a ton of random vintage lenses I’ve bought this year though. Maybe I’ll try to preorder the black one and see how I go.
 

I still can’t swing the used prices on an SL2 I’ve been looking for and I missed out on a cheap S1R at auction this week so my GAS is creeping back in pre Black Friday deal time. 

[Chrille]

I recieved the camera approx. 3 weeks ago, i did not have much time to test it and decided to send it back.

- The body is made of plastic but the size and the weight are fantastic. Funny how different it feels to take pictures and videos of the family with such a small camera (compared to the a74).

- On the video side it feels great, feelings of the original blackmagic pocket come up. It's really fun to use for such a small camera body.

Of course it is winter and i was only able to take pictures inside: for that use case the camera is worse to the  a74 by far. Not sure wether it is fair to compare those two though...

So overall i believe that this is a really fun camera - i will just not be able to invest the time to learn a new system right now, also @Andrew Reids praise of the S9 did not help as well.

But it's defenetly a great camera for every day carry, holidays and traveling.  Not sure wether it's the right thing for my use case of music videos, short films and family pictures though...

 

[Ninpo33]

15 hours ago, Chrille said:

So overall i believe that this is a really fun camera - i will just not be able to invest the time to learn a new system right now, also @Andrew Reids praise of the S9 did not help as well.

But it's defenetly a great camera for every day carry, holidays and traveling.  Not sure wether it's the right thing for my use case of music videos, short films and family pictures though...

 

I’m torn as well between both of these as a little third camera for travel, street and interviews. Found a black X-M5 on a Japanese open box model for $800 with a 10% off coupon last week but decided to wait a bit. 
 

X-M5 Rigged up with a Ninja V that 6.2k open gate prores raw would be great for music videos and short films. Once rigged up the IBIS would be less of an issue. S9 does have the better IBIS and AF but no external raw if that matters to you. 422 10 bit might be enough for you. Also few to no speedboosters for Panasonic L mount but most just deal with the 1.5x crop on 60p. There’s a couple options for the Fuji X mount for speedboosters so that could be fun. 

[Ninpo33]

Merry Xmas to me. Couldn’t pass up the 10% off sale and free shipping. $873 out the door. 6.2k open gate 12bit Raw to my Ninja V+ 
 

for some reason the black ones aren’t here in the U.S. till April so I grabbed one from MAP Camera Tokyo, New open box with the kit lens. 

[IronFilm]

NICE! What other X Mount lenses do you already have for it? (other than the 15-45mm kit lens the X-M5 is coming with)

Will you be using it just for filming with, or photography too?

[Ninpo33]

1 hour ago, IronFilm said:

NICE! What other X Mount lenses do you already have for it? (other than the 15-45mm kit lens the X-M5 is coming with)

Will you be using it just for filming with, or photography too?

75% Film stuff and 25% photos is my norm. I have 0 native Fuji lenses but have the Kipon M42 - X speedbooster as well as the Konica - X adapter also the Minolta AF - X adapter so I have a lot of my vintage glass needs met. Metabones makes a Minolta AF - X speedbooster but it’s pricey at $450. Still… I have the whole set from 16mm - 200mm and it’s really amazing glass. I’ll get a few native lenses for autofocus but probably just a couple wides. 
 

What I’m most excited about is the Blazer Nero 1.5x Anamorphic adapter which looks great on APS-C and will be a perfect match to the 6.2k open gate raw. That’s a monster of an image for the price.
 

I also have a whole set of 1960’s Yashica and Mamiya rangefinder lenses that I’m slowly converting to Mirrorless. A few of them were “half frame” lenses that shot two images per 35mm frame. These fit APS-C perfectly and are nice F/1.4 lenses. So yeah, lots of options LOL.

what are your favorite Fuji X lenses? I’ve heard great things about the 16mm and older 35mm f/1.4. 
 

 

[Ninpo33]

There’s also still a couple LUMIX S9 bodies on the Japanese auction sites I frequent. Good deal, open box for around $925 after the 10% off sale. It was tough to choose between the X-M5 and the S9. The S9 feels like a really good buy if you get it below $1,000. I want to play around with the X-M5 though and figure they may end up becoming hard to find where as the S9 will probably be available cheap in the coming months. The only thing I’m wondering about is the lack of IBIS on the Fuji so we’ll see how it handles. If I don’t like it I’ll sell it and get the S9.
 

 

[IronFilm]

54 minutes ago, Ninpo33 said:

I also have a whole set of 1960’s Yashica and Mamiya rangefinder lenses that I’m slowly converting to Mirrorless. A few of them were “half frame” lenses that shot two images per 35mm frame. These fit APS-C perfectly and are nice F/1.4 lenses. So yeah, lots of options LOL.

ohhhhh.... I'd never even looked into those lenses. (how should I search for them on eBay? How do I specifically restrict the search just to half frame rangerfinder lenses?)

I guess due to them being rangefinder lenses, they must not have been too popular during the DSLR era at all. (as DSLR mounts are too deep)

And being half frame lenses I guess the mirrorless FF shooters don't want them either. 

Would be perfect however for Fujifilm shooters. 

54 minutes ago, Ninpo33 said:

what are your favorite Fuji X lenses? I’ve heard great things about the 16mm and older 35mm f/1.4. 

Only just starting lately to dabble in using my old Fujifilm X-A3 as a casual stills camera I can carry with me most times whenever I feel like it (I want something compact / light / cheap / decent, I think the X-A3 with APS-C lenses fits the bill here). 

 

So thus I recently put together a very cheap Fujifilm lens kit of native X mount lenses:

7artisans 12mm F2.8 II (Manual Focus)

Sirui 21mm f1.2 (Auto Focus)

TTArtisan 25mm f2 (Manual Focus)

Vivitar 56mm f1.7 (Auto Focus)

(I half wonder if the 21mm f1.2 lens was a mistake, was using it for the first time on Christmas Eve, and it was a lot bigger and heavier than I imagined! Perhaps a bit too much so for the little X-A3? Maybe I should have got the TTArtisan 27mm f/2.8 lens instead)

[Ninpo33]

1 hour ago, IronFilm said:

ohhhhh.... I'd never even looked into those lenses. (how should I search for them on eBay? How do I specifically restrict the search just to half frame rangerfinder lenses?)

I guess due to them being rangefinder lenses, they must not have been too popular during the DSLR era at all. (as DSLR mounts are too deep)

And being half frame lenses I guess the mirrorless FF shooters don't want them either. 

Would be perfect however for Fujifilm shooters. 

Ok thanks for the recommendations. I’ll dive down the rabbit hole for native Fuji glass. I’ve always just tried to find solid vintage stuff for cheap and adapt to whatever I’m renting or buying for the moment. It’s served me well over the years but we are finally in a time when reliable autofocus is upon us so I’m getting into native glass and AF adapters finally. 

I’m about to start a new YouTube channel in 2025 (cringe) and need some solid vlogging equipment and lightweight travel setups. Hoping the X-M5 can work out in that role but we’ll see. If not I’ll probably just get a used ZV-e1 or FX30 and use the Fuji for personal stuff. 

So for the vintage rangefinders you are correct, most people have slept on these lenses because they were not easy to adapt before Mirrorless and also need to be decoupled from the cameras since they were fixed. Good news is that there is plenty of amazing 1960’s glass around still and for dirt cheap. Bad news is that you have to chop them off the cameras and work out a mounting solution. Easy way is to find them already converted. eBay has some and also Japanese auctions. Harder way is to convert them yourself. The $$$$ way is to pay to get them rehoused by a cinema rehousing company. They’ve started to move towards these rangefinders the last few years and the canon stuff has skyrocketed in price. Zack Snyder shot Army of the Dead and some other stuff on them and so people started buying them up. The Canon 0.95 dream lens and Canon Rangefinder sets etc… 

here is a link to the Mamiya 48mm being rehoused by Zero Optik. 

https://shops.tryboxedup.com/shop/old-fast-glass/product/BoxedUp11599

So the little known APS-C half frame cameras were made by a few companies and I really like the Yashica 14. Or half 14.  14 for f/1.4. They also made a Half 17 f/1.7. Konica made them as the Eye and Eye 2. Canon had a few too. I’m working on adapting them to either Leica M mount or maybe M42 to keep them kind of universal. cute little cameras and built like tanks. Super tiny as you can see in the photos.