X-M5 New Fujifilm Creator Focused Camera

[BTM_Pix]

32 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

The lack of IBIS is the only niggle for me which is why I'd go for the XS-20 if I was in this market.

Oddly enough, I think this might well re-awaken interest in the XS-20 too.

 

 

[John Matthews]

There's this odd thing with the X-M5. It's either you just take it for what it is (great camera with no IBIS) or you go for the X-S20. But if you go for the X-S20, you might as well go for a lighter full-frame camera like the R8 (which also doesn't have IBIS). Now you're thinking I "need" full frame with IBIS and we're back at the S9 or S5ii. Round and round you go. It does seem IBIS is THE feature (but I contend the S9 is still lacking in other things).

[BTM_Pix]

 

[Marcio Kabke Pinheiro]

3 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

 

Came here just to put this link, heheheh

Will try this Arri Log trick in my X-S20.

About the X-M5 - dismissed it because it have no EVF and IBIS (and I have the X-S20, that have the same internals). But this damn thing is so cute and is the 1st Fuji with a very competitive price launched in a long time (looking at you, X-T50), that I'm tempted.

And compared to the camera that is its competitor, the Sony ZV-E10 II, apart from the AF, it is better in almost every aspect. And cheaper.

Very good move, Fuji. Now bring me a X-E5 with IBIS, EVF and a 40mp sensor (for stills - the X-S20 is MUCH better than the 40mp models for video).

[IronFilm]

On 10/15/2024 at 6:17 AM, Ninpo33 said:

Looks like we’ve moved into the “social media driven” era for cameras and are doubling down on low price. I really wish companies would continue to support prosumer stuff and innovate instead. 

Depends on how you define "prosumer", but arguably when we're being given 6.2K @29.97fps in 10-bit (with 12raw output too, and anamorphic support!) then couldn't you say the release of the X-M5 is indeed supporting prosumer shooters? I kinda think it is. 

I had been thinking if I buy a new camera next year (highly unlikely, but always possible) it would probably be a cheap Sony FX30. 

But perhaps this Fujifilm X-M5 is worth a look? Especially as it would be priced substantially cheaper than a FX30. 

Heck, for only a hundred bucks more you even get a handy 15mm to 45mm zoom lens:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1855426-REG/fujifilm_16900771_x_m5_mirrorless_camera_with.html 

I guess the lack of IBIS and TC would be the biggest two negatives for me. And perhaps the overheating. But....

https://petapixel.com/2024/10/14/fujifilm-x-m5-first-impressions-a-surprisingly-powerful-little-hybrid/

"If you need to record for long periods of time, you can shoot a long-play mode which still has the 1.18x crop but should dramatically extend record limits and avoid overheating. There are two screw mount brackets to allow the attaching of the Fujifilm cooling-fan unit if overheating needs to be more acutely avoided with the intensive record modes."

Handy!

On 10/15/2024 at 7:23 AM, John Matthews said:

Where's your response Panasonic because this is way better than the G100? And it's actual camera with a hot shoe and mechanical shutter (to be confirmed), unlike the S9.

The video specs are amazing for a $800 camera.

I feel Panasonic has abandoned a little the MFT market underneath their flagship GH7/G9mk2

We used to have the "Gx series" (G3/G5/G6/G7) that were solid budget options. But the G9 changed that, being a flagship camera. And the G90/G100 just don't cut it in comparison. 

We need a "Panasonic G7mk2"!

On 10/15/2024 at 8:43 AM, Andrew Reid said:

Definitely one of the best stabs at a social mirrorless camera yet.

I don't like to think of it as a "Content from creators" era camera, it's more than that... like compact X100V alternative, great for travel adventures and street photography.

Fujifilm's X100 series cameras have been massively popular. This new X-M5 with a pancake lens is the perfect camera for everyone who can't get their hands on an out of stock Fujifilm X100V or X100VI.

Or heck, this X-M5 is also perfect for everyone who simply can't afford a X100 series camera! Because a Fujfilm X-M5 with a TTArtisan 27mm f/2.8 autofocus lens is still a lot cheaper than a X100VI (heck, get a TTArtisan AF 56mm f/1.8 autofocus lens too! You're still a lot cheaper than a X100VI)

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1732752-REG/ttartisan_af2728_x_b_af_c27mm_f_2_8_lens.html

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1815332-REG/ttartisan_af5618_x_b_af_56mm_f_1_8_lens.html 

[ntblowz]

3 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

 

This is so good, I m pretty sure any camera in his hand will turn cinematic.

[ntblowz]

20 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

 

I feel Panasonic has abandoned a little the MFT market underneath their flagship GH7/G9mk2

We used to have the "Gx series" (G3/G5/G6/G7) that were solid budget 

Yeah man, GX9 was their greatest compact cam... and they abandoned it completey.

They definitely have the tech to do a XM5 that is for sure

 

If I hadn't got x100vi I will be really considering this cam, perfect for social  

[IronFilm]

19 hours ago, John Matthews said:

Here’s the rub: imagine if the S9 and X-M5 were the same price. We’re essentially talking about ecosystem, mechanical shutter vs. none, and IBIS. For 'small and portable,' Fuji has the lenses, whereas Lumix is apparently struggling. I’d be okay without a mechanical shutter, but the problem is the X-M5 is significantly lighter and has one. Factor in the massive value proposition, and the X-M5 takes the cake. Panasonic has a serious problem, but its saving grace is the IBIS. You could argue that Panasonic is smaller because of the IBIS, whereas with Fuji, you either need to carry a tripod or a gimbal. Their EIS isn't cutting it for me.

Or OIS, such as the kit lens that comes with the X-M5 for only an extra $100:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1855426-REG/fujifilm_16900771_x_m5_mirrorless_camera_with.html

Very handy wide angle too, starting at 15mm!

19 hours ago, John Matthews said:

Still, I’d keep an eye out for Black Friday deals because Panasonic has traditionally been very competitive. The real question is: will there be any X-M5 cameras available by then, or will they all be sold out? My guess is they’ll all be gone.

Yes, that will be Fujifilm's biggest problem. Trying to keep the X-M5 in stock and on the shelves!

Everyone who can't get their hands on the out of stock (or too expensive) Fujifilm X100VI is going to get the X-M5 instead. 

[IronFilm]

12 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

Just going off prices at B&H (dream on for UK/EU punters of course) the S9 with the new 18-40 kit lens is $1797.99.

Whereas the following :

• Fujifilm X-M5
• 15-45mm f3.5-5.6 kit lens with OIS and Power Zoom
• Viltrox 23mm f1.4 AF
• Meike 55mm f1.4 AF
• Fujifilm 55-200mm f4.5-6.7 OIS zoom MK2

Adds up to $1796.99

So for a dollar less (not sure what that buys you in NY anymore but still) you can have the camera, a more useful kit lens due to the OIS and the power zoom, two fast and very capable third party AF primes and a real hidden gem of a stabilised telephoto zoom.

For anyone not married to L mount looking at an S9, that is a pretty compelling alternative as you can get a really comprehensive kit instead.

You're not even going for the absolutely cheapest options. The TTArtisan AF 56mm f/1.8 is even cheaper than the Meike. Could have also gone for the cheap TTArtisan 27mm f/2.8 Lens pancake lens instead of the Viltrox (sure, it's not as fast, but it's also much smaller! And some people might prefer that). 

Could also have gone with the cheaper Fujfilm XC 50-230mm f/4.5-6.7 OIS mk2 lens as the longer telephoto zoom. 

That now adds up to $1576 in total, that's quite a bit cheaper than the Panasonic S9 with its kit lens! And you get a hell of a lot more with the Fujifilm setup. 

 

 

 

[MrSMW]

10 hours ago, John Matthews said:

There's this odd thing with the X-M5. It's either you just take it for what it is (great camera with no IBIS) or you go for the X-S20. But if you go for the X-S20, you might as well go for a lighter full-frame camera like the R8 (which also doesn't have IBIS). Now you're thinking I "need" full frame with IBIS and we're back at the S9 or S5ii. Round and round you go. It does seem IBIS is THE feature (but I contend the S9 is still lacking in other things).

Indeed, ultimately ending up in my case with the Hassie X2D for stills plus something like the Burano for video 😱

Like so many, I am always looking for that ‘Goldilocks’ camera (and system) that ticks the highest number of my boxes within the range of the 2 most important factors; requirement and cost.

So I think you can make direct comparisons between different cameras to a point such as XM5 vs X100 or S9, but my X2D example is probably a bit of a stretch!

That’s how I settled in the A7RV. For me it is the ultimate Goldy in that it’s relatively compact and can be used like an X100 on steroids with any number of native or adapted tiny primes, or with some high end glass, against the likes of the 100mp medium format monsters.

With something like this new Fuji, it’s highly capable in it’s own right, and can be upgraded with a gimbal, cage and external recorder etc…but then it gets equaled or beaten by others.

Unless you want that ability to rig it out for say jobs and then return it to its basic state for personal use.

I like kit you can do that with and at this price point, it’s ridiculously good. IBIS would have made it bonkers great!

 

[John Matthews]

My feeling is that the X-M5 is a bit of a "trap camera" right now. The image coming off of it looks really good. Small lenses are available, not crazy expensive (but still pricey new). However, there is no telling that Fuji has the production chops to actually meet demand. I assume it will be a priority because there's much more of an upside selling this over their POS models.

[John Matthews]

3 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

Unless you want that ability to rig it out for say jobs and then return it to its basic state for personal use.

Ah... for pro work, this camera definitely has the output, but not the "look" unfortunately. I don't do pro work, but I think there's an element of "looking" the part. It would require a lot of "hiding" with a rig; then, you'd spend tons of time removing it from said rig for personal use- might as well just buy a second one.

[MrSMW]

By 'pro work', I mean more full-time content creator or wedding vid etc, ie gigs where the camera/kit is either unseen or no one cares.

But yes, turn up to shoot an ad or something when the norm is an Arri or a Venice etc, yup, might be a tough sell! 

You also have hit on one of the beauties of small cheap cameras and that is you can have a set of them, each with a prime or different function rather than lens swapping.

I did it myself for a few months after shooting an entire season of weddings on the OG X100 with the following year having a pair and shooting one with the wide convertor and the other with the tele so approx 28 and 50 in FF terms as opposed to just 35 the year prior.

Actually, it was a year or so later as I did that thinking about it with the S or T model which were quite a bit snappier.

For stills work, I would comfortably do the same today with this new Fuji.

I choose not to, but I could and that tiny camera approach does have a lot of appeal...just not more than my current Goldilocks approach of 61mp 28-75 and 26mp 42-112 at a turn of a dial.

The Sigma 16mm and 56mm f1.4 spring to mind... These lenses are available under 300 used and a pairing such as this at 24 and 85mm f2.1 DOF equivalent, would be excellent and paired with something like the XE4 or X-S20, would easily be my pick over the X100VI. 

The only thing they don't really have is the leaf shutter and ND, but IMO, swap that for range.

There's so many options these days, we're spoiled really!

[BTM_Pix]

I think the significance of this camera extends far beyond whether you actually want it because it doesn’t tick every box for you.

That significance is being able to say to other manufacturers “OK, now why can’t YOU do this for $799?”

[MrSMW]

1 minute ago, BTM_Pix said:

That significance is being able to say to other manufacturers “OK, now what can’t YOU do this for $799?”

S9 needs to be priced at 999 or LUMIX might need to call 999.

(UK emergency number for non-Brits)

[John Matthews]

2 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

I think the significance of this camera extends far beyond whether you actually want it because it doesn’t tick every box for you.

That significance is being able to say to other manufacturers “OK, now why can’t YOU do this for $799?”

If I'm honest, this Fuji announcement has pissed me off a bit with Panasonic. Frankly, the price and value tread deeply into the core of M43. Having Panasonic basically refuse to make anything and allowing Fuji to own the market says volumes about the current state of Panasonic. Let’s be clear: they’ve come out with ONE value proposition in the past year, and it was for pros (S5II/X). We’ve been begging for a newer M43 camera like the GM5 or GX9, and Panasonic continues to ignore us, despite having an ecosystem for those cameras. To add insult to injury, they come out with an overpriced S9, effectively moving the amateur price point to $1500. Oh, and by the way, we have a new BS 'lens' for you—a manual focus 26mm fixed f/8! What the hell? Now we have Fuji putting the amateur price point back to where it should be—$800. It’s time to lower the price of the S9, announce a new GX9-type camera, or say goodbye to that market.

[Marcio Kabke Pinheiro]

I love Panasonic - grown with them, love the UI that they use, anytime that I get my FZ1000 it feels home.

But (at least until now), the course of MFT was what I predicted when I left it for Fuji - relegated to niche formats (video for Panasonic, wildlife / adventure for OM Digital). Big bodies, big lenses.

And specifically for Panasonic, I think that if the L-Mount dont get more traction in the next batch of cameras, Panasonic will go OM Digital or Samsung route. Their Lumix division is a drop in a bucket inside Panasonic, don't generate much income, and consume a lot of resources.

Maybe just kept the minimum to make the Leicasonics L-Mount cameras.

[John Matthews]

36 minutes ago, Marcio Kabke Pinheiro said:

And specifically for Panasonic, I think that if the L-Mount dont get more traction in the next batch of cameras, Panasonic will go OM Digital or Samsung route. Their Lumix division is a drop in a bucket inside Panasonic, don't generate much income, and consume a lot of resources.

I'm not sure Panasonic would go the OMDS route. For that, you'd need a buyer. However, I could see Lumix breaking away from Panasonic, even if it were still funded by them. They’re definitely feeling the pressure, and it seems to be getting worse with every announcement. I still haven’t seen a single YouTuber talk about the S9 who wasn’t given one for free. Has anyone? Yet, Sean from Panasonic says they’re selling like crazy, along with the G100. It must be an alternate universe thing. He’s mentioned on multiple occasions that Panasonic can easily maintain two lines (MFT and L-mount), but enthusiasts consistently join their livestreams and beg for a small MFT camera, to which he responds with 'yeah, that would be cool.' 'Cool' is about to attract buckets of new users, but it’s not going to be Panasonic—it’s Fuji.

All they need is a big camera/small camera approach. The big one does everything, with all the lenses and accessories to support it. They’ve got that pretty much covered. But the small camera is seriously lacking to the point that the people who bought the big camera are starting to have doubts. It’s so frustrating. I don’t want to maintain two systems, but Panasonic might force me into doing just that—and I’m not even sure why.

[MrSMW]

1 hour ago, John Matthews said:

I don’t want to maintain two systems, but Panasonic might force me into doing just that—and I’m not even sure why

They did not ‘force’ me as such, but without any sign of the next/current gen body that I would like for the stills side of my work, ie, a replacement for ideally the S1R or at least the S1H (an underrated stills machine) and at the time, a decent mid zoom that is not a tank, I did go briefly Nikon and then Sony for the lens options, native or adapted.

The adapted route did not quite work out for me as I hoped with Nikon as in AF etc worked just fine, but some quirks I could not ultimately tolerate in post for pro work. Hence Sony which was always waiting in the wings with the A7RV.

But yes, not a fan of operating 2 systems really as it’s all non-compatible with the lenses and batteries etc.

By the end of April, if an S1R or H replacement appears, as would be my preferred choice, I will be back all in with L Mount and regardless of any future moves they make, pretty sure I’d be set until I take early retirement on an already fixed date.

If they don’t pop something out in that flavour then it’s a choice of either going all in on Sony or carrying on with 2 systems.

Pros and cons for each with the main con being going all in on Sony will cost me approx 3k, but I would have a more compact and single brand system.

The bottom line though is I don’t want to change anything unless I either have to or it’s quantifiably worth it in whatever terms I choose to measure such things.

There is merit to each of my 3 options.

There are other options but the cost would be something I could not justify so as much as I hanker after a Hassie X2D and some tasty XCD primes, without a Lotto win, won’t be happening!

[Alt Shoo]

It’s curious that there’s so much frustration over the lack of a new Panasonic release when the current lineup, especially the Lumix S series, already works well for most users. If your camera is delivering solid results, why panic over something new? It’s not like your S1H or S5 II suddenly stopped producing high quality images just because the S9 didn’t trend on YouTube.

And speaking of YouTube, the lack of hype doesn’t necessarily mean poor sales. It could just mean the people who actually own these cameras are out doing what they were meant for… shooting. Not every user is interested in reviewing specs and chasing the next best thing. Sometimes, when things work, they just work.

Are people really going to drop a system they love just because they haven’t heard the next announcement yet? Sounds more like a patience problem than a Panasonic problem.