X-M5 New Fujifilm Creator Focused Camera

[Alt Shoo]

Was trying to edit my other post to add more of my thought, but I guess I was too late…

 

 

As a camera tech aficionado, I’ve noticed gear buying has become more about status than skill, even among so-called “professionals.” The pros I’ve learned from? They stuck with their equipment for years and still delivered incredible work, focusing on mastering their tools instead of chasing every new release.

That said, I’ve evolved too. I used to scoff at autofocus, but now, as a one-man band, I need gear that lets me concentrate on composition and sound without worrying about missed focus. That’s why any new camera I get has to have dependable autofocus. I’m leaning toward the GH7 for its 32-bit audio. Its perfect for solo shooters. And while the X-M5 has stunning image quality, I’d only consider it if the autofocus could keep up. For now, the tools I have are more than enough.

 

 

 

[Alt Shoo]

17 hours ago, MrSMW said:

S9 needs to be priced at 999 or LUMIX might need to call 999.

(UK emergency number for non-Brits)

Lowering the Panasonic S9 to $999 wouldn’t make sense given what it offers. The S9 has a full-frame sensor, which delivers better image quality than the APS-C sensor in the Fujifilm X-M5, especially in low-light. It also has 6K video recording, in-body stabilization, and advanced video tools like LUTs, making it ideal for hybrid shooters. The X-M5 is more affordable because it’s built for enthusiasts with fewer high-end features, like a smaller sensor and no IBIS. The S9 is an entry into pro-level cameras, not an entry-level option.

[John Matthews]

4 hours ago, Alt Shoo said:

And speaking of YouTube, the lack of hype doesn’t necessarily mean poor sales. It could just mean the people who actually own these cameras are out doing what they were meant for… shooting. Not every user is interested in reviewing specs and chasing the next best thing. Sometimes, when things work, they just work.

No, there's hype, but it's fabricated. Panasonic gave all of them an S9 for free to use forever. Please find me a YouTube video of someone who purchased the S9 at its retail price. I've counted 11 reviews on B&H since its release. That tells me it's not exactly selling like crazy and like many have said- it's way too expensive for what it is.

[Alt Shoo]

It’s easy to jump to conclusions about a lack of hype for the Panasonic S9, but that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s not selling. I’ve found a few YouTubers who reviewed the S9, such as in this review where it was tested over the course of a week with a focus on how it performs in the field. The reviewer didn’t hold back on both the good and bad points.

As for the lack of YouTube buzz, it’s worth noting that just because a camera isn’t flooding review channels doesn’t mean people aren’t buying it. Some users may be busy using the camera for actual shoots rather than focusing on making reviews. The S9 is packed with professional features like LUT integration and 6K video, which are meant for creators who are likely more interested in putting it to work than reviewing it.

Finally, B&H reviews alone don’t fully represent the bigger picture. Many people don’t leave reviews, even if they’re satisfied with the product, and a lack of complaints online can often mean that users are content.

 

 

[John Matthews]

26 minutes ago, Alt Shoo said:

It’s easy to jump to conclusions about a lack of hype for the Panasonic S9, but that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s not selling. I’ve found a few YouTubers who reviewed the S9, such as in this review where it was tested over the course of a week with a focus on how it performs in the field. The reviewer didn’t hold back on both the good and bad points.

As for the lack of YouTube buzz, it’s worth noting that just because a camera isn’t flooding review channels doesn’t mean people aren’t buying it. Some users may be busy using the camera for actual shoots rather than focusing on making reviews. The S9 is packed with professional features like LUT integration and 6K video, which are meant for creators who are likely more interested in putting it to work than reviewing it.

Finally, B&H reviews alone don’t fully represent the bigger picture. Many people don’t leave reviews, even if they’re satisfied with the product, and a lack of complaints online can often mean that users are content.

 

 

Yeah, I get it. I was just pointing out the discrepancy over what Sean said (who seemed to indicate they're flying off the shelves) and the very unofficial information I have. I know what the camera is capable of too. The frustration with Panasonic stems from the X-M5 release and their unwillingness to make a small camera for enthusiasts that isn't at pro-level prices. The S9 practically has no suitable lenses for it. For M43, they have a full ecosystem that is ready to go with many willing buyers. At this point, I can only believe they've left M43 to just high-end, big cameras. Please prove me otherwise Panasonic. It's possible- Fuji did it. Why not you?

[MrSMW]

4 hours ago, Alt Shoo said:

Lowering the Panasonic S9 to $999 wouldn’t make sense given what it offers

It makes perfect sense (in my opinion) because:

A. I think they overpriced it to start with. Should have been 1250 max. That would have increased the buzz but the price was and is a major criticism by most.

B. They fluffed it’s launch within The Community at least. It was controversial to say the least on various levels, but specifically that utterly shit launch lens.

C. Outside The Community, people shop on brand and price. Fuji vs Panasonic Lumix, not much in that but the Fuji is something like 40% cheaper.

D. Panasonic’s market share is lower than Fujis with Fujis image increasing (TikTok X100 just one example) whereas LUMIX has flatlined at best. Without a halo product in an S2R or S2H very soon, they risk cardiac arrest as even within The Community, folks WILL increasingly jump ship. It’s a dog eat dog world and folks generally do not back losers and LUMIX is in very real danger of being seen as a basket case.

And I am a LUMIX fan. They are my brand of choice for video.

I tried the S9. It was good but not great.

I returned it for another (used at the SAME price) S5ii which is a far better camera at around the same price point.

Would I ever consider buying and using another S9?

Yes absolutely and have kept my Smallrig cage for it just in case that opportunity comes up, but only as a sidekick to an S2R because it does not tick enough boxes for me to be my A cam for pro work (single card slot and no fan being the principle deal-breakers there for me).

The X-M5 is IMO a slightly less capable camera than the S9, mainly due to the lack of IBIS but if I was Average Joe browsing my local camera shop, the sales person would probably steer me towards the sub 1k camera and price-wise, I would convince myself that 899 is better than 1499 or whatever the S9 is currently priced at.

But this is all just my personal opinion and maybe the S9 is flying off the shelves, loved by the masses and The Community, but the latter are just to busy to talk about it…

 

[Ninpo33]

8 hours ago, Alt Shoo said:

It’s curious that there’s so much frustration over the lack of a new Panasonic release when the current lineup, especially the Lumix S series, already works well for most users. If your camera is delivering solid results, why panic over something new?

While I agree and understand where you’re coming from, capitalism works a little differently than that. You have to remember, companies are dictated by the market and really need to be much more on top of things. They have to be two steps ahead if they want to survive to be around in 2 years time. There are so many factors that need to be managed to survive, public perception and marketing are big ones and Panasonic is blowing it right now. They don’t have a clear vision and it shows. There’s a lot of psychological factors involved and if people don’t trust where they’re going they will jump ship and look for what they need from others. For most of us, buying a camera isn’t just the body, it’s investing into the whole system. If you’re a professional that means maybe 2 or 3 cameras and then all the accessories, lenses… personally, I need to know that I’m making a good decision that will work for me and my team for 2 - 5 years and when that gear is starting to age it’s ready time for an upgrade. 
 

The image and experience with lumix is great but things are getting a little strange with the lack of news and latest releases. There’s been a pretty consistent and timely release of products over the years and for the first time in a long time, that schedule has been inconsistent and the focus has shifted. That promotes concern for those of us who are dialed in and ready for the next major flagship upgrade or need to adapt. 
 

And at the end of the day, it’s pretty simple, we like gear and tech and new shiny things. The camera world is very innovative and it’s growing and changing really fast. 32 bit float, lidar, IBIS, animal detect AF… it’s all moving quickly and 5 years is a Looooooong time. 

[Ninpo33]

On 10/15/2024 at 4:54 PM, IronFilm said:

Depends on how you define "prosumer"

Specs are solid but that is not a “prosumer” camera. S9 is not a prosumer camera. FX30, FX3, X-H2s, S5iix is what I think most people would classify as “prosumer”.

But camera companies have to sell cameras and for all I know, this is what needs to be done to sell cameras in 2024? It makes sense considering how we consume content these days. 

 

[BTM_Pix]

I've said it before but the camera that presents the biggest challenge to Panasonic getting traction with their latter releases isn't made by someone else, its made by Panasonic themselves.

The S5ii is the spanner in the works for the G9ii, GH7 and S9.

Cheaper than the first two (and lets not ignore the not insubstantial difference of it being FF over MFT) and easily justifying the extra £300 over the last one for the additional features.

How likely do you think it is that someone walks into a camera store to buy a Panasonic camera and doesn't walk out with the S5ii when presented with all four?

Actually, or even all five if you are in Europe when you throw in whatever the hell the S5d is

The ARRI LogC3 got a lot of buzz for the GH7 and maybe it could be the thing that does the same for the S9 but that is at the expense of pissing off every owner of the other S cameras.

Discontinuing the S5ii seems the only way out of this for them !

[MrSMW]

1 hour ago, BTM_Pix said:

whatever the hell the S5d is

A camera with appeal to approximately 5 people on the planet.

Should have made an S1H-S and used the sensor from the S5ii but with the OLPF which is possibly at least partly why the image from it is the best of all the S line cameras.

It was the lack of PDAF and somewhat hit & miss reliability of AF at critical times that forced me to go S5ii.

People generally love the S1H but for whatever reason, LUMIX do not appear to have milked it but instead, allowed it to slowly die.

Ditto the S1R. Criminally overlooked, mainly for stills but...

[Alt Shoo]

Let’s be real, Panasonic isn’t targeting the casual shooter with this model. They’re aiming at the semi pro and advanced enthusiasts who need high end features, and dropping the price too low would undercut the value of what it offers. Plus, Panasonic hasn’t been silent. Look at the release of the GH7. This clearly shows they are investing in high quality gear and advancing technology, especially for video professionals. They’re not just coasting along. They’ve made it obvious where they’re headed with their recent releases.

As for capitalism, it’s not just about keeping up with market trends. It’s also about knowing your market. Panasonic knows who they’re building for, people who need reliable tools for serious work. Yes, companies need to innovate, but that doesn’t mean dropping prices on premium products. There’s always room for new shiny tech, but the truth is, the features that cameras like the S9 and GH7 offer will remain relevant for years. Sure, things move fast, but you don’t need a new camera every year to stay competitive. The quality these cameras deliver is more than enough for most work, even as tech advances.

So, while we all want more affordable options, Panasonic is sticking to its guns, building tools for those who need them long term rather than chasing short-term trends.

[BTM_Pix]

13 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

A camera with appeal to approximately 5 people on the planet.

All of whom work in their accounts department.

[BTM_Pix]

4 hours ago, Alt Shoo said:

Let’s be real, Panasonic isn’t targeting the casual shooter with this model.

To be fair, their own product page for the S9 certainly says otherwise though.

It’s all about the casual shooter.

Particularly the crossed out edit graphic.

I don’t disagree that it does a lot more but that’s what they’re aiming at based on their own marketing.

Which is another aspect of the bundled launch in not having the right lenses or the right type of “reviewers” there.

They hedged their bets and it all just looked very confused.

Plus, the S5ii 😉

 

https://www.panasonic.com/uk/consumer/cameras-camcorders/lumix-mirrorless-cameras/lumix-s-full-frame-cameras/dc-s9.html

[MrSMW]

2 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

The ARRI LogC3 got a lot of buzz for the GH7 and maybe it could be the thing that does the same for the S9

Is this GH7 only then or part of the recent firmware update to the S9 and if so, coming to the S5ii Problem Child?

Not been paying much attention recently to such things and don't even know if I am that interested as I'm mostly happy with my Phantom LUT burned in Vlog, but then also slightly interested in whether there is any benefit to me.

Must take a look at the RED thingy with Nikon also...but then I don't want to get too interested because I'm not with Nikon and don't wish to really be aware of their grass if it's greener...

[BTM_Pix]

3 hours ago, MrSMW said:

Is this GH7 only then or part of the recent firmware update to the S9 and if so, coming to the S5ii Problem Child?

It’s exclusive to the GH7

*edit - No it isn’t.

[John Matthews]

4 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

It’s exclusive to the GH7

Nope, the GH6 got it too.

[MrSMW]

12 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

It’s exclusive to the GH7

Ah OK.

Pretty happy with my burned in LUT SOOC anyway so cool beans.

I need to have more of a play with this LUT feature on these cameras over the Winter…

Looks interesting for stills also from what I have seen but not really applicable to me at this time UNLESS LUMIX MAKE ME AN S2R 🥱

[BTM_Pix]

27 minutes ago, John Matthews said:

Nope, the GH6 got it too.

Oh yeah, forgot about that.

I stand corrected.

 

[IronFilm]

On 10/16/2024 at 6:14 PM, MrSMW said:

Indeed, ultimately ending up in my case with the Hassie X2D for stills plus something like the Burano for video 😱

I believe in you. Hit the gym during the off season, and you can do it!

On 10/16/2024 at 6:14 PM, MrSMW said:

I like kit you can do that with and at this price point, it’s ridiculously good. IBIS would have made it bonkers great!

Probably the only thing stopping the Fujifilm X-M5 from being "the perfect" sub $1K camera is the lack of IBIS. 

But I'd imagine the average vlogger / "content creator" would be happy enough with the OIS from the kit lens + EIS

On 10/16/2024 at 6:16 PM, John Matthews said:

However, there is no telling that Fuji has the production chops to actually meet demand.

Might be the worst thing about the X-M5, it won't remain in stock anywhere between now and until after Christmas. 

On 10/16/2024 at 6:22 PM, John Matthews said:

Ah... for pro work, this camera definitely has the output, but not the "look" unfortunately. I don't do pro work, but I think there's an element of "looking" the part. It would require a lot of "hiding" with a rig; then, you'd spend tons of time removing it from said rig for personal use- might as well just buy a second one.

At this price, it's pretty easy to own 2x X-M5!

Keep one fully rigged up with an external monitor / recorder + V Lock + MixPre3 + etc

Keep the other X-M5 stripped down, let it be the camera to be the B Cam angle / BTS stills camera / gimbal camera / whatever. 

On 10/16/2024 at 7:59 PM, MrSMW said:

But yes, turn up to shoot an ad or something when the norm is an Arri or a Venice etc, yup, might be a tough sell! 

Rent it. Just like anybody else would. 

And do the low budget / spec shoots with the X-M5. 

On 10/16/2024 at 8:00 PM, BTM_Pix said:

That significance is being able to say to other manufacturers “OK, now why can’t YOU do this for $799?”

Indeed, puts so much pressure on every other manufacture to offer something more compelling in the sub $1K price point. 

Will Panasonic slash the price further of the S5mk1? Or will Panasonic find a way to release an even cheaper L Mount camera, perhaps a "Panasonic S90"??

Will they give us an epic "Panasonic GM6"? (is crazy that the GM5 was way back in 2014!!)

Maybe Sony will do a sub $1K "Sony FX300"??? 

Will be interesting to see. 

On 10/16/2024 at 11:00 PM, John Matthews said:

If I'm honest, this Fuji announcement has pissed me off a bit with Panasonic. Frankly, the price and value tread deeply into the core of M43. Having Panasonic basically refuse to make anything and allowing Fuji to own the market says volumes about the current state of Panasonic. Let’s be clear: they’ve come out with ONE value proposition in the past year, and it was for pros (S5II/X). We’ve been begging for a newer M43 camera like the GM5 or GX9, and Panasonic continues to ignore us, despite having an ecosystem for those cameras.

Agreed, Panasonic has always been the budget / value market leader I felt. (a big reason why I shot with Panasonic!!)

But now it feels like Panasonic is merely "the middle ground" when it comes to budget value. 

They're definitely not grossly overpriced, and do offer you good value. 

But they're no longer a leader in this category. 

Of course if you don't care about stills, then Blackmagic is kinda beating them here. And for the hybrid photographer it feels like it's Fujifilm who are the leaders now. 

Panasonic is now not leading it but is positioned midpack, where the likes of Sony a7C / a7mk3 / FX30 or Nikon Z6 mk1 / mk2 or Canon R8 / R7 / R6 are now very competitive in this "new normal" of what "low / mid budget" pricing seems to be. (i.e. $1K to $2.5K ish) 

 

[IronFilm]

On 10/17/2024 at 1:18 PM, Alt Shoo said:

As a camera tech aficionado, I’ve noticed gear buying has become more about status than skill, even among so-called “professionals.” The pros I’ve learned from? They stuck with their equipment for years and still delivered incredible work, focusing on mastering their tools instead of chasing every new release.

Scott Choucino has talked a lot about this, he has a great channel:

https://www.youtube.com/@TinHouseStudioUK

He makes the point that a lot of what he does could still be done in a pinch with merely a Canon 5Dmk2! (or translated into Nikon speak: Nikon D3X / D600 ? You could pick a D600 up right now for less than US$300 on eBay )

Or even "splurge out" for the likes of a Canon 5D S (or in Nikon speak: Nikon D800, which you could grab right for US$350), which he could do all of his professional photography work on.