New Fujifilm Eterna Cinema Cam.

[Ninpo33]

With the lack of new camera news in 2024 especially exciting flagship models, this feels too good to be true…!!!
As always, any new bold tech is good for  everyone because it forces all the companies to innovate and compete. 

Excited to learn more. 

https://www.fujirumors.com/fujifilm-gfx-eterna-filmmaking-camera-development-announcement-with-expected-2025-release/
 

 

[BTM_Pix]

I’m going to Inter BEE tomorrow so I’m looking forward to seeing this in the flesh.

 

[MrSMW]

Could be interesting...

But not for 2025 for me, - I have enough new purchases to finance!

[ND64]

What's the purpose of this announcement when almost no specs released other than sensor resolution? Why not wait until its done? 

[MrSMW]

It's not an announcement but a rumour on the Fuji Rumors site.

Might be real. Might not be...

[Andrew Reid]

3 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

I’m going to Inter BEE tomorrow so I’m looking forward to seeing this in the flesh.

 

It's official

https://www.fujifilm.com/jp/en/news/hq/11889

Very curious to see if you can get a look at the real thing!!

[eatstoomuchjam]

5 hours ago, Ninpo33 said:

With the lack of new camera news in 2024 especially exciting flagship models, this feels too good to be true…!!!
As always, any new bold tech is good

If I am reading that release right, the camera uses the GFX 100 II sensor which is a tweaked version of the GFX 100 sensor (released in 2019 so the sensor is at least that old) and the same processing chip as the GFX 100 II (released last year).  I'm not sure I'd call that "new bold tech."  Plus that particular 102 megapixel sensor in a cinema camera is a bizarre choice.  You can't shoot 12K with it.  For full sensor width modes, there are 4K (17:9) and 5.8K (2.3x:1) options.  There's an 8K mode which is smaller than full sensor width on a 24x36mm sensor.  Sensor readout speed in several of the modes is fairly glacial for a modern camera - and in 4K mode, the low RS mode comes with reduced bit depth.

On a hybrid body like the GFX 100 II, they are fantastic options and the image can look really nice.  On a dedicated cinema camera, it seems bizarre.  If they put in a huge fan that lets them overclock the processor/sensor and get more/better modes than the GFX 100 II, it could be interesting.  If not, given that the price is likely to be $6k+, if I had that money burning a hole in my pocket, I'd be far more likely to pick up a C80 and get triple base ISO, internal ND (maybe the Fuji will have it, but those pictures don't look like it), faster readout, and better dynamic range.

I love my GFX 100 II, but I'd be a whole lot more excited to see a cinema camera version of it made with an updated lower megapixel sensor with faster readout, ideally in 14-bit or 16-bit mode.  If I'm looking to buy a large sensor camera, I'd buy the normal hybrid version of this camera which is also well-designed to be a stills camera (taking full advantage of that beautiful 102 megapixel sensor with 16-bit readout (or at least 14?)).  If looking to rent a larger sensor camera, I'd wait to see reviews of that bonkers Black Magic 17K that's supposed to come out sometime this year - that's a wider sensor than the GFX (~50mm) or one of the Red V-Raptor VV cameras which is wider than FF, but less than GFX (40mm).

[Andrew Reid]

9 minutes ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

if I had that money burning a hole in my pocket, I'd be far more likely to pick up a C80 and get triple base ISO, internal ND (maybe the Fuji will have it, but those pictures don't look like it), faster readout, and better dynamic range.

It remains to be seen how much money is burning a hole in the pocket of the cinema market after the torrid last few years.

You are right that the sensor is a bit on the slow side for a cinema camera, rolling shutter might be a dealbreaker especially in the 8K modes.

But it makes sense in many other ways... GFX looks very different to full frame, it's cinematic as hell.

And like you say we don't know how they have implemented the sensor, it could be running much faster with the extra cooling available.

9 minutes ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

I love my GFX 100 II, but I'd be a whole lot more excited to see a cinema camera version of it made with an updated lower megapixel sensor with faster readout, ideally in 14-bit or 16-bit mode.

I agree with you on that, it doesn't really need 12K worth of unused pixels, and a native 8K sensor would have been a better fit but one doesn't seem to exist in GFX format, and making a new sensor for one new camera would make it all a bit economically unviable.

9 minutes ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

If I'm looking to buy a large sensor camera, I'd buy the normal hybrid version of this camera which is also well-designed to be a stills camera (taking full advantage of that beautiful 102 megapixel sensor with 16-bit readout (or at least 14?)).  If looking to rent a larger sensor camera, I'd wait to see reviews of that bonkers Black Magic 17K that's supposed to come out sometime this year - that's a wider sensor than the GFX (~50mm) or one of the Red V-Raptor VV cameras which is wider than FF, but less than GFX (40mm).

If the ETERNA is a success maybe Fuji should give Blackmagic's sensor manufacturer a call for future cameras?

[Marcio Kabke Pinheiro]

RIsky move, because of all the sensor issues already mentioned. Depending on the price, could be a "budget' mf option.

"Oh, but the Fuji colors" - sorry, this is a non-issue on cine market, where everything is heavily color graded.

But between this and the rumored "half frame" 1-inch camera, worries me as a Fuji user that development resources are being wasted in risky markets - much better be used to pay some Sony guys to change place for AF, and some Olympus guys for IBIS tuning in video...

[eatstoomuchjam]

3 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

I agree with you on that, it doesn't really need 12K worth of unused pixels, and a native 8K sensor would have been a better fit but one doesn't seem to exist in GFX format, and making a new sensor for one new camera would make it all a bit economically unviable.

Absolutely.  Fuji are (mostly) at the mercy of Sony for the sensors and building out an entirely new camera with a different sensor is more than just swapping out a single piece of hardware.  I'm not saying it's viable or that they should - just that it's what I would find exciting.  Putting the same guts in a cine body isn't all that thrilling to me.

That said, adding professional ports to the camera is probably table stakes for getting it used on more professional shoots.  I'm just not sure what the market is for that vs renting a V-Raptor or Alexa 65.

But again, we will see when more details come out.  I also realized between my last post and now that they didn't mention IBIS.  If the sensor is locked down, it'll be easier for them to stick a big heatsink on the back to go with a fan.  If they can kick up the readout speed and give it a hybrid 4K mode combining the faster readout and the increased bit depth that the GFX 100 II has as options now (vs the OG 100), it's suddenly a much more interesting camera - even better if the 5.8K mode can also get a faster readout.  Even better better if they improve the autofocus just a bit - right now, it works right for me around 80-90% of the time - with copious swearing at it the other 10-20% of the time.

3 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

If the ETERNA is a success maybe Fuji should give Blackmagic's sensor manufacturer a call for future cameras?

Not just if ETERNA is a success - but at this point, I don't think I've seen any footage from the BM 17K sensor.  It's probably some combination of embargo and me not looking for it because it'll be years before they hit the used market at a price that I'd find even remotely palatable.  If that sensor is all BM claims, I'd love to see a GFX 100 III with a shiny new/better sensor.

[Andrew Reid]

Risky is what’s needed

compared to the Alexa 65, you have a much wider choice of lenses on this.

The GFX ETERNA is 102 megapixel, and the drawbacks of that have already been made clear… however that actually has the upside of making all those crop modes available even Super 35.

I don’t know much about the rumoured 1” camera but if they target the typical Instax customer with something like that it will be a big seller.

I think Fuji will target videographers / Sony FX users not just Netflix and ARRI with the ETERNA.

Price could be as low as 6k

Either way it will certainly be a lot less cost than the closest alternative - 65mm film or an ARRI LF!

And as a GFX 100 user with my full frame lens adapters it makes me proud that Fuji feels this format is ready to step into cinema officially, in a big way.

The image is spectacular… even with a 50 quid 1970s lens on the front.

i love the GFX format overall

[eatstoomuchjam]

I'd say that just about any of Red's VV cameras are also competitors in the "bigger than FF, but not as big as 65mm" category.  Unless I'm mistaken, they're all 40.96mm wide - so more than halfway between a 35.7mm (or so) full frame sensor and the 43.8mm GFX sensor size.

A monstro brain sold on ebay in early September for $4,700.  Add a $400 IO expander, $700 v-lock module, and some ridiculously overpriced mini-mags (which could be less expensive if the Jinnitech hack still works - just buy the smallest/cheapest one possible and swap it for bigger/better media and overwrite the needed SMART bits), and you're not too far off from $6k.  Now if only the prices of DSMC2 accessories would drop to match the bodies...

[JulioD]

Rolling shutter and bit depth will be the big question for this.  As far at the 17K, I’m sure it will be similar to the new 12k which CineD just tested and seems pretty impressive.  https://www.cined.com/blackmagic-ursa-cine-12k-lf-lab-test-rolling-shutter-dynamic-range-and-exposure-latitude/

[MrSMW]

5 hours ago, MrSMW said:

It's not an announcement but a rumour on the Fuji Rumors site.

Might be real. Might not be...

My bad. Official then, but remains to be seen exactly what it is and costs etc...

Above my needs most likely.

[Chrille]

Interesting - though it might be a situation where one  year is  a pretty long time in which the market might change dramatically. But definetely a sign that fuji is growing/ investing in new products which might be great for Camera tech anyway. 
 

[Ninpo33]

5 hours ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

I'm not sure I'd call that "new bold tech."  Plus that particular 102 megapixel sensor in a cinema camera is a bizarre choice. 

It’s early days and we don’t know exactly what the final product is going to end up with right? Lots of time between now and when it’s released. Fun to speculate of course but yes it is a bold move by Fuji. 
 

And while the individual components in the preproduction model announcement might be existing tech, I would argue that it is indeed a bold camera. Andrew has already expounded on it better than I could so I won’t go into detail here. 
 

I know locally here in Los Angeles the Old Fast Glass, “Custom 65” rents out pretty much continuously and they’re building more to keep up with the demand. The fact that they even put that custom rig together and how popular it’s been show shows me that there is a desire for a camera like this and it’s been popular even in its limited speced, modded out version. 
 

For perspective, Canons are not renting at all for larger productions and even the new C400 is sitting around right now. It’s all Alexa Mini LF and 65 on the high end and FX6 with FX3 on the low end. Smaller owner operators are different but local DP’s love the idea of a cheaper Medium Format option that can use adapted vintage glass. All it will take is faster readout speeds and reduced rolling shutter to take it a level above where it’s at right now. 
 

 

[eatstoomuchjam]

Bold, maybe, but "new" is really what I was objecting to.  Nothing in the announcement is "new."

Otherwise, that's cool that Customs 65 is doing well.  I'm glad that OFG are having some success with it.  Though it's not necessarily the case that the success of a niche camera in LA is predictive of the success/desire for the same camera in every market.  I can say that in my market, the lower end for narrative production is pretty full of Black Magic and the higher end is skewed toward Sony and Red.  When I've shown up places with the GFX 100, people see "Fuji" and make some comment about how they prefer FF to S35.  😆
(Dude, I know the GFX 100 II is smaller than the original, but does it really look like an S35 body to you, especially with the big chonky GF lens on the front?)

I'll definitely look forward to hearing from BTM_Pix about what info can be gleaned on the show floor, especially if it's possible to put hands on the camera.  I'd be genuinely excited if my prediction that it's "GFX 100 II in a box with better I/O" is wrong and it's able to merge the low RS mode and the high DR modes, even at 4K.  Even more excited if it included a faster readout version of my beloved 5.8k widescreen mode.

[eatstoomuchjam]

The rumors site also said that Fuji announced a 32-90mm zoom for the GFX system.  That might also be exciting - the 32-64 is my default lens on the GFX 100 and one of my only objections is the lack of reach at the long end.

[Ninpo33]

38 minutes ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

Bold, maybe, but "new" is really what I was objecting to.  Nothing in the announcement is "new."
 

Taking a bunch of old things and putting them together does in fact make a new thing if those things in that configuration never existed before. Is the ZV-E1 a new camera or is it just an FX3? which is just an A7sIII… 

Since you’re splitting hairs here I will clarify that the “newness” in my original post referred to a newly announced medium format cinema cam for the low end market. That is new is it not? My point was that innovation in the market has been stale and it’s nice to see Fuji announce an $800 camera with 6.2k open gate 12 Bit HDMI Raw and a medium format cinema cam in the same month. I’m optimistic about the future but feel free to argue about partial tech specs from a day old press release. 

[BTM_Pix]

Live from the exhibition floor…

Well, it’s here but as expected it’s in a Perspex case making touching it impossible and the reflections and dim environment not exactly easy to get a decent picture of it especially on my ageing iPhone.

What I can confirm though which Is what everyone wants to know is that it does have internal ND.