Camera advice. What after a EOS R? (and a RicohGR)

[tomastancredi]

Hey Guys, I know you love some camera discussion!  I feel it would be nice to replace my EOS R. It served me well as an OK stills camera for eventual architecture photography and some portraits and it was also ok for video work. I also have a Ricoh GRI that I use as an EDC that has kind of broke now, so covering this would be a plus even if with some pocket ability compromise. I am not usually doing very serious jobs very often, so I can rent whenever necessary. reason for changing is that for photos I am mostly using my phone (previously Ricoh) and for video when its not a personal project I rent. So my EOS R is no longer being used that often. I would prefer having a camera that is very good for photos since my video work is mostly paid and I can rent. 

So my wishes for a new camera would be.

1) Can become a pocketable EVC for street photography  ( I loved to use and own a gx85 with 20mm and Ricoh)

2) Highest IQ possible (colour 3d pop and resolution). I don't need it to be fast and I don't care if the AF is not crazy fast. ( I am not sure if xm-5 would be an upgrade, probably not
3) best quality possible. Although I guess at this point anything new will be good enough. 422 10 bit internal though seem nice. 

I  considered getting the xm-5 and a used GFX 50R, or just xm-5 with good glass or just A7C, or s5II and shoot stills with a portable film camera

 

Let me know if you have any other advices!

Thanks!
 

[eatstoomuchjam]

Why not just get a used EOS R5 and keep using whatever lenses you already own?  45 megapixel stills and decent video, as long as you're not rolling super long takes.  Pair it with some of the plastic Canon RF consumer lenses and you'll have something that's just about as pocketable as many other cameras.  You can find them used for right around $2k now too.

[tomastancredi]

On 11/13/2024 at 5:54 PM, eatstoomuchjam said:

EOS R5

I would like to something smaller and at least 10 bitt 422. 

I checked the xm-5 on a store and didnt like its ergo for one hand operation, in a strange way it didnt feel as good as a gx85 or a ricoh gr. Im thinking that the S5 for 600 is the way to go for all the rest  and for pocketable stills just waiting for a cheap xe-4, film cameras, ricoh grII (it never gets cheap) or even go back to gx85+20mm.

[eatstoomuchjam]

FWIW, the S5 and R5 are nearly identical in size and while the R5 is 10-bit 4:2:0 in H.265 mode, it also shoots raw internally - and unless you're doing special effects work, you won't miss it - that or just record in 8K and when you downsize it to 4K, you'll have all the luma/chroma info that you need anyway.

Regardless, sounds like you chose the S5. It's a great camera and I'm sure you'll enjoy it!  Happy shooting!

[Ty Harper]

Mmm, maybe the Fujifilm XT-4 or 5 or X100 XI, or the Panasonic S9? 

[MrSMW]

The pocketable part is the trickiest bit...

Best of luck getting an S5 or R5 or anything of that nature in your pocket. Unless you are Matt Granger.

S9 springs to mind and maybe with that new 18-40?

Even then, still need a decent sized pocket!

I've been guilty of it myself and that is chasing a 'grail' solution that does not exist and you probably are better off with that S5 + GX85 combo?

[tomastancredi]

7 hours ago, Ty Harper said:

Fujifilm XT-4 or 5

I thought about it. mainly for the small lenses. But the camera itself its the size of any full frame and the I dont think its better than the S5 for stills, right? 
 

 

2 hours ago, MrSMW said:

he pocketable part is the trickiest bit...

indeed. I think trully pocketable for everyday only the ricoh GR. and fuji x70/10

Gx85+20, XE4 or Xm-5 +27mm are jacket pocketable and perfect for when you know you will be photographring. 

 

Still, would be nice thinking of other small Combos available which give the benefit of a much higher IQ, even with some compromise. The S9 would be amazing if there was only one small 1.4-8 lens. not sure If it could be only one with the electronic shutter though. 

 

Crazy to think that the gx85 would be the best choice after 10 years. the 27mm 2.8 on the xe-4 or xm5 seem to be a big bigger with the protruding lens cap.

 

 

[tomastancredi]

2 hours ago, MrSMW said:

chasing a 'grail' solution t

I saw your other post. Maybe a a nikon ZF with 40mm could be it. Is it better than the s5 for stills or any comparable to the 7R?

[MrSMW]

8 hours ago, tomastancredi said:

I saw your other post. Maybe a a nikon ZF with 40mm could be it. Is it better than the s5 for stills or any comparable to the 7R?

Define 'better'...

Personally, I went from XT3 to S5.

It was going to be XT4, but Covid got in the way and as a result, I tried an S5 and liked it enough.

For me, it was slightly better video but noticeably better stills.

Video I was shooting S35 mode with either so not so much difference, but the stills, due to being full-frame over APSC, definitely better low light and the raws had a bit more latitude in post.

Tried S1R and S1H and S5ii since and of them all, I actually liked the video-orientated S1H files the best.

The S1R obviously had more detail being 45mp over 24mp, but there was something I preferred with the S1H files.

The S5ii I didn't much care for as a stills unit.

Video yes, but not so much for stills. Mostly due to the shutter mech feel and sound.

Step forward Nikon Zf.

Tried it and loved it.

Bought 3x Tamron zooms and the Megadap adapter.

Loved the zooms but not the quirks of using non-native lenses in the edit so reluctantly went Sony (A7RV) for stills.

But as per that post, regretted selling the Zf though it was the right thing at the time.

Now it's back.

It's a bit of a Marmite camera for some...

It's not as small or as light as some would hope and the screen is somewhat controversial for some folks but my only criticisms are yes, I wish it was smaller (lighter I don't care about as it's only 700g for heavens sake) and it's ergos do not suit bigger primes or zooms for all day use.

Can you use them? Sure, but a Z6iii would make more sense.

My own use case for re-purchasing is simple, - it will have 4 roles.

1. Personal camera with manual focus only Voigtlander 40mm f1.2 

2. As above for low light scenarios at weddings

3. Candid camera at weddings with the Nikon 40mm f2 SE where AF will be used for speed and accuracy

4. Flips to longer form video mode on tripod with adapted Tamron 70-180mm f2.8 for ceremonies and speeches.

But pocketable it is not, regardless of the lens other than maybe a very large jacket pocket!

S9 or Sigma FP would be my picks for something small for stills and video with the S9 if IBIS and AF are important. And a tilt screen, better battery life, and probably a few other things but the FP can arguably shoot produce 'nicer' video and stills in certain modes.

My only question now is do I flip my remaining S5ii and sole remaining lens for a Nikon Z6iii because I already have the equivalent lens for it and 2 systems are better than 3 right...??

 

[IronFilm]

On 11/15/2024 at 11:56 AM, tomastancredi said:

I would like to something smaller and at least 10 bitt 422. 

Is this even strictly necessary? You said for anything that isn't personal work you could just rent when it comes to video work. 

Also what are you usually renting, Sony FX6 / FX9? If so it might make sense for your personal camera to also be a E Mount. 

I'd be inclined to go with the oldest Sony a7R you'd feel happy with (seeing resolution for architecture photography seems to matter a fair bit to you), you could go fairly old with it, seeing as you don't care about AF much. 

The a7R mk1 is 36megapixels like the Nikon D800, which is heaps, still is lots more than most stills cameras are. Or go a little more recent for the a7R mk2 for 42.4 megapixels. (or just splurge out for the Sony a7RV if you must have 10bit video, and also get a 60MP sensor for stills)

Then get a handful of lenses for it to cover every situation, such as the Viltrox AF 28mm f/4.5 FE Lens makes it kinda pocketable.  (or the faster / less wide Sony Sonnar T* FE 35mm f/2.8 lens, or the much cheaper Rokinon AF 35mm f/2.8 , both of which are rather slim lenses to use for street photography)

Or the Venus Optics Laowa 15mm f/4.5 Zero-D Shift Lens for doing architectural photography. Or the Viltrox AF 135mm f/1.8 lens for portraits. 

If you don't care about Sony E Mount in particular, then expand the scope to consider Panasonic S1R and Nikon Z7. 

On 11/15/2024 at 8:00 PM, MrSMW said:

I've been guilty of it myself and that is chasing a 'grail' solution that does not exist and you probably are better off with that S5 + GX85 combo?

Honestly not a bad idea to have your main stills camera and your pocketable camera be two different options.

With your pocketable / everyday carry camera being something like a Fujfilm X100, or Sony RX100 (or even go more extra... Sony RX10mk2???), or Sony ZV-1, or very compact MFT / APSC mirrorless camera. (such as a Nikon Z30 or Sony EV10 or Panasonic GX850 etc)

While your main stills camera is a beefier Panasonic G9mk2 / Nikon Z7 / Panasonic S1R / Fujifilm X-H2 / Sony a7R / etc

 

[Chrille]

I am having similar needs regarding the camera i am currently looking for. I am trying the X-M5 route but one other camera that i would love to test is the Canon R8. It seems to check all the boxes you need. Combined with the 28mm pancake it is really small while still usable. You can use all the lenses you have. Basically a R6II without ibis. I guess for video work you put it on an small gimbal anyway...

I haven't fully watched the following video, but you can see how the combination of R8 and 28mm looks. (It's around 2:40 - the rest of the video he is holding an R6 or R5)

 

[Chrille]

P.S. regarding the size of the R8 - i tried it in a foto shop and it is really small while having a usable button layout and a nice grip. It's smaller than the APSC R7 for example.

[IronFilm]

17 hours ago, Chrille said:

I am having similar needs regarding the camera i am currently looking for. I am trying the X-M5 route

What's the compact lens you've got for every day carry with the Fujifilm X-M5?

As I've got a Fujfilm X-A3 (yeah, I know, old!) and I've been thinking what is the best lens for it for everyday everynight (out in nightclubs/pubs/events) carry.

Definitely don't want anything too expensive, as the risks it could get lost/stolen/broken within the next couple of years are quite high. 

TTArtisan 27mm f/2.8 is top of the list, but I worry f2.8 might be too slow? But it is only US$149

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1732752-REG/ttartisan_af2728_x_b_af_c27mm_f_2_8_lens.html

Yongnuo YN 50mm f/1.8 is also only US$149, but being 50mm is definitely too long. However if I'm to bring along a second lens, then I think this could be perfect. (or the Viltrox AF 56mm f/1.7? Or the Meike 55mm f/1.4 AF Lens? 

Could go with a genuine Fujifilm lens, with the Fujifilm XC 35mm f/2 at the surprisingly low US$199. But hmm... tough and go about 35mm, probably is going to be not wide enough. (and the Meike 33mm f/1.4 and Tokina 33mm f/1.4 can be similarly ignored, only 2mm difference)

Tokina 23mm f/1.4 could be the perfect lens for both FoV and F-stop, but price is creeping up at US$249 and maybe it's too bulky? 

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1608878-REG/tokina_atx_m_af23x_atx_m_23mm_f_1_4_x.html 

And for only a little more at US$279 there is the Sirui Sniper 23mm f/1.2

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1798104-REG/sirui_23as12x_b_sniper_23mm_f_1_2_aps_c.html 

Keeping on creeping up with the price to US$299 we see the Viltrox AF 23mm f/1.4

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1581754-REG/viltrox_af_23_1_4_xf_23mm_f_1_4_lens_for.html 

As the price keeps on going up, then there is the Sirui Sniper 16mm f/1.2 at $319:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1836434-REG/sirui_16as12x_b_sniper_16mm_f_1_2_autofocus.html 

And then finally for the Fujifilm XF 27mm f/2.8 R WR Lens for $399 (minor mention to the Fujfilm 35mm f/2 R WR & 16mm f/2.8 R WR Lenses which are also US$399), which is definitely the most compact of all the autofocus lenses being considered so far:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1618892-REG/fujifilm_16670168_xf_27mm_f_2_8_r.html 

But four hundred USD is definitely beyond the absolute max I'd consider splurging on such a lens for a frivolous purpose. 

The other option is forgetting about autofocus (how well are these third party lenses going to be focusing anyway in a dark environment at night on an old X-A3 body???), and go manual focus:

TTArtisan 25mm f/2 for US$64:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1725977-REG/ttartisan_c2520_b_x_25mm_f_2_aps_c_compact.html 

(and the TTArtisan 50mm f/2 for US$69, it's cheap and compact enough I could indeed be always carrying around a second lens: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1718063-REG/ttartisan_f5020_b_x_50mm_f_2_full_frame.html 

Or spend a little bit more for a little extra speed, the TTArtisan 23mm f/1.4 for US$99:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1675251-REG/ttartisan_a35bs_x_23mm_f_1_4_aps_c_lens.html 

Or go wider, TTArtisan 17mm f/1.4 for US$118:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1644040-REG/ttartisan_a23b_17mm_f_1_4_aps_c_lens.html 

[IronFilm]

2 hours ago, IronFilm said:

What's the compact lens you've got for every day carry with the Fujifilm X-M5?

As I've got a Fujfilm X-A3 (yeah, I know, old!) and I've been thinking what is the best lens for it for everyday everynight (out in nightclubs/pubs/events) carry.

Definitely don't want anything too expensive, as the risks it could get lost/stolen/broken within the next couple of years are quite high. 

TTArtisan 27mm f/2.8 is top of the list, but I worry f2.8 might be too slow? But it is only US$149

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1732752-REG/ttartisan_af2728_x_b_af_c27mm_f_2_8_lens.html

Ohhh... seems like we're just around the corner from even cheaper options:

AstrHori and 7Artisans AF 27mm F2.8 are coming in X Mount, roughly US$126/US$129 each. 

https://www.fujirumors.com/astrhori-and-7artisans-af-27mm-f2-8-launched-and-fujifilm-x-mount-versions-to-come/

[MrSMW]

22 hours ago, Chrille said:

P.S. regarding the size of the R8 - i tried it in a foto shop and it is really small while having a usable button layout and a nice grip. It's smaller than the APSC R7 for example.

I didn’t try it but looked at one in a camera shop window yesterday and indeed, pretty tiny!

[Chrille]

11 hours ago, IronFilm said:

What's the compact lens you've got for every day carry with the Fujifilm X-M5?

As I've got a Fujfilm X-A3 (yeah, I know, old!) and I've been thinking what is the best lens for it for everyday everynight (out in nightclubs/pubs/events) carry.

Definitely don't want anything too expensive, as the risks it could get lost/stolen/broken within the next couple of years are quite high. 

TTArtisan 27mm f/2.8 is top of the list, but I worry f2.8 might be too slow? But it is only US$149

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1732752-REG/ttartisan_af2728_x_b_af_c27mm_f_2_8_lens.html

Yongnuo YN 50mm f/1.8 is also only US$149, but being 50mm is definitely too long. However if I'm to bring along a second lens, then I think this could be perfect. (or the Viltrox AF 56mm f/1.7? Or the Meike 55mm f/1.4 AF Lens? 

Could go with a genuine Fujifilm lens, with the Fujifilm XC 35mm f/2 at the surprisingly low US$199. But hmm... tough and go about 35mm, probably is going to be not wide enough. (and the Meike 33mm f/1.4 and Tokina 33mm f/1.4 can be similarly ignored, only 2mm difference)

Tokina 23mm f/1.4 could be the perfect lens for both FoV and F-stop, but price is creeping up at US$249 and maybe it's too bulky? 

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1608878-REG/tokina_atx_m_af23x_atx_m_23mm_f_1_4_x.html 

And for only a little more at US$279 there is the Sirui Sniper 23mm f/1.2

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1798104-REG/sirui_23as12x_b_sniper_23mm_f_1_2_aps_c.html 

Keeping on creeping up with the price to US$299 we see the Viltrox AF 23mm f/1.4

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1581754-REG/viltrox_af_23_1_4_xf_23mm_f_1_4_lens_for.html 

As the price keeps on going up, then there is the Sirui Sniper 16mm f/1.2 at $319:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1836434-REG/sirui_16as12x_b_sniper_16mm_f_1_2_autofocus.html 

And then finally for the Fujifilm XF 27mm f/2.8 R WR Lens for $399 (minor mention to the Fujfilm 35mm f/2 R WR & 16mm f/2.8 R WR Lenses which are also US$399), which is definitely the most compact of all the autofocus lenses being considered so far:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1618892-REG/fujifilm_16670168_xf_27mm_f_2_8_r.html 

But four hundred USD is definitely beyond the absolute max I'd consider splurging on such a lens for a frivolous purpose. 

The other option is forgetting about autofocus (how well are these third party lenses going to be focusing anyway in a dark environment at night on an old X-A3 body???), and go manual focus:

TTArtisan 25mm f/2 for US$64:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1725977-REG/ttartisan_c2520_b_x_25mm_f_2_aps_c_compact.html 

(and the TTArtisan 50mm f/2 for US$69, it's cheap and compact enough I could indeed be always carrying around a second lens: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1718063-REG/ttartisan_f5020_b_x_50mm_f_2_full_frame.html 

Or spend a little bit more for a little extra speed, the TTArtisan 23mm f/1.4 for US$99:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1675251-REG/ttartisan_a35bs_x_23mm_f_1_4_aps_c_lens.html 

Or go wider, TTArtisan 17mm f/1.4 for US$118:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1644040-REG/ttartisan_a23b_17mm_f_1_4_aps_c_lens.html 

Mine will arrive in the next days. I will do the initial tests with the kitlens and take it from there. Thanks for the overview! I will get back to it!

[IronFilm]

13 hours ago, IronFilm said:

What's the compact lens you've got for every day carry with the Fujifilm X-M5?

As I've got a Fujfilm X-A3 (yeah, I know, old!) and I've been thinking what is the best lens for it for everyday everynight (out in nightclubs/pubs/events) carry.

Definitely don't want anything too expensive, as the risks it could get lost/stolen/broken within the next couple of years are quite high. 

Welll.... by luck or not, I just got this question answered for me? Just won a fairly good deal for a SIRUI Sniper 23mm F1.2 autofocus lens. 

 I already have a 7artisans 12mm F2.8 II Manual Focus Lens for Fuji X Mount (when a lens is this ultrawide, then being manual focus is no big deal), and I'll try to find a cheap hundred dollar 56mm autofocus lens.

Together these three lens should make for a very nice trio of primes to cover most things. 

Depending on how bulky I find this f1.2 lens, I might yet still get the TTArtisan 27mm f/2.8 Lens as a more compact everyday lens. Or maaaaybe the even more compact and cheaper manual focus lenses: 7artisans 18mm f/6.3 or TTArtisan 25mm f/2 

[tomastancredi]

On 11/15/2024 at 6:53 PM, MrSMW said:

Define 'better'...

good question. Colour rendition, depth and resolution. Actually I still struggle to identifiy what specs would make a better camera and definettelly not totally objective. But I love the raw files that come out of my ricoh GR. I also feel like the benefits of a higher megapixel camera is not only cropping, but is there a perception of resolution increase (not digital sharpening)? I am seriously asking this. I have not done or seen comparison but maybe the A7C and S5 24mpx are sharper than my EOS R ? so what comes into play?  I would like to have a sharp camera for digital visualization( so no pixel peeping, rarelly printing, no pixel peeping) in that case, did you see the benefit of a A7R over say the S5? 

the used A7RII is so cheap now, almost for 600 pounds. I considered buyint it for stills and an xm-5 for video 

Thanks for all other considerations. ZF looks amazing, a bit bulkier for me though, checked one at the store yesterday. 

 

On 11/19/2024 at 3:50 AM, IronFilm said:

Also what are you usually renting, Sony FX6 / FX9? If so it might make sense for your personal camera to also be a E Mount. 

c70 most of times now  because of canon colors and sometimes even using the EOS R as a second camera. But also BMPC6K

I usually have good EF glass at my disposal and only own one 35mm 1.8 RF and one sigma 24. 1.8 EF

 

On 11/20/2024 at 3:01 AM, IronFilm said:

And for only a little more at US$279 there is the Sirui Sniper 23mm f/1.2

Do you like it so far?

 

On 11/19/2024 at 3:50 AM, IronFilm said:

The a7R mk1 is 36megapixels like the Nikon D800, which is heaps, still is lots more than most stills cameras are. Or go a little more recent for the a7R mk2 for 42.4 megapixels. 

yes, makes sense, I am looking at it, not sure if more megapixels make sense for me though if I am not cropping, no pixel peeping and not often printing. If it does increase the perpection of resolution than I would be in.People say 24 megapixels is "enough", I wonder if it is as good as  - if you are not printring croping etc.. 

if it doesnt make such a difference I should either put more money on the a7CII or

On 11/19/2024 at 3:50 AM, IronFilm said:

must have 10bit vide

10 Bit would make me rent much less defintelly. Colours make a huge difference for me and I do see a drastic difference. I could even shoot 1080p. I see the s5 can shoot beautifully in 1080 10bit, and I know I could achieve a good result with sony 8 bit slog 2, I have done that, but it would not be for any kind of shooting since it is more demanding. But then, if megapixels do matter i could only have a A7RII, if megapixels dont matter thaat much and for lower a A7C with the befenits of poecketporatbility. 

 

On 11/19/2024 at 8:43 AM, Chrille said:

R8 - i tried it in a foto shop

thanks for pointing out this, it was not on my radar. I will have a look at a store. the RF lenses options are not great but yes, the 28mm 2.8 would fit perfectly. I have the 35 1.8 which has terrible autofocus, hunting all the time. from what I read the R8 would be perfect apart from battery which seems to be quite bad

[MrSMW]

On 11/22/2024 at 11:06 AM, tomastancredi said:

I also feel like the benefits of a higher megapixel camera is not only cropping, but is there a perception of resolution increase (not digital sharpening)?

I agree and that is why I have the A7RV as my workhorse and previously a S1R.

I have been a full-time pro photographer for over 1/4 of a century but cannot put my finger on exactly what it is, but there is definitely a ‘something’ the larger the sensor and the higher the pixel count.

”It all looks the same on social media”.

Does it? I’m not sure whether I subscribe to that one. In fact, I don’t and it may just be marginal, but I can see that certain ‘something’ in my own work.

But it also exists between brands.

Take the results I get from my Zf and compare them with those from the S5ii and there is something I cannot define but just ‘is’.

Possibly there is an element of lens ju ju going on, but I am not one of those who simply believes in hype or others opinions, but rather based on my own experience.

This year, two facts exist for me and that is because of, or despite my use of, but probably the former, I have produced my best ever work and not simply because I have moved my own game on in any other way.

Or maybe I have and that is a factor, but it’s not the only factor, ie, I am adamant there is a tech element.

The second fact is I have experienced the same thing with the Nikon Zf which is why I have made this pairing of cameras my workhorses for stills.

I confident that if I brought one of the 100mp medium format cameras into the mix, I’d see another ‘step up’, but for a variety of reasons, mainly cost, I can’t see me going there any time soon. If ever.

Summary = great tools do not an artist make, but I do firmly believe that using the best tools that you have access to, does allow you to create an better end result than working with lesser tools.