New Sony 28-70mm f/2 Lens, and a new flagship camera the Alpha 1 II

[IronFilm]

 Obviously is a lens that exists to compete against Canon's 28-70mm f2

Are Panasonic and Nikon going to bring out their own versions of this next as well??

Is this lens going to make @MrSMW once again rethink his wedding filmming / photography setup? (or no? Too heavy?)

Is going to have a RRP of US$2898, and will be shipping this Decemeber. 

You can see here what the lens looks like on a FX3, not too badly sized:

Sony also announced a new Second-Generation Flagship flagship camera, the Sony Alpha 1 II

Also will be shipping in December, and is priced at US$6,499 

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1861705-REG/sony_a1_ii_mirrorless_camera.html 

 

Key Features:

Quote

• High-resolution full-frame Exmor RS® stacked CMOS sensor with an approximate effective 50.1 MP (megapixels)
• Up to 30 fps (frames-per-second) blackout-free continuous shooting with AF/AE (autofocus/autoexposure) tracking[i]
• AI processing unit bringing advanced AI-based subject recognition performance and a new “Auto” recognition mode that automatically detects subjects
• High-speed anti-distortion shutter reduces rolling shutter effect for clear undistorted images
• Pre-Capture of up to one second[ii] and Continuous Shooting Speed Boost
• Improved optical image stabilization of up to 8.5 stops (center) and 7.0 stops (periphery) for still images and a new Dynamic active Mode for videos
• Updated processing algorithms for improved image noise reduction at mid-to-high ISO sensitivities
• Up to 8K 30p / 4K 120p and 10-bit 4:2:2 video recording with Breathing Compensation, Auto Framing, and import User LUTs
• Updated ergonomics and a lightweight design of approximately 743 grams (1 lb, 7.3 oz)

From a videographer's perspective, not really a huge upgrade from the mk1? 

[Ninpo33]

29 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

From a videographer's perspective, not really a huge upgrade from the mk1? 

Yeah, I was disappointed in the same/similar video specs but also relieved. If prices come down considerably on the A1 mk1 that will be worth this release alone I suppose. The A1 is a sweet camera and was ahead of its time on release but priced high. I’ve been waiting for a deal on one so hopefully the new model should force the mk1 down on the used market.
 

Sony is known for its slow, incremental releases but the photo specs are a nice step up with this model. However I can’t help but feel like maybe we are at a slow time in sensor/camera evolution with not much development in the space. Feels like all the major brands are releasing recycled parts with old sensor tech. And if Sony isn’t revolutionizing things with their flagship model I don’t know what to say. Would be nice if the other companies can get their own sensors going so everyone is not dependent on them. 
 

 

[IronFilm]

26 minutes ago, Ninpo33 said:

If prices come down considerably on the A1 mk1 that will be worth this release alone I suppose.

It's honestly what makes me the most excited about new camera releases these days, it helps push down the prices of the older secondhand models. Bring on the Nikon Z6 mk4 & mk5! (and a Nikon Z60 pretty please!!)

Will make the Nikon D750 and D500 that much more affordable on eBay

[ND64]

1 hour ago, Ninpo33 said:

Feels like all the major brands are releasing recycled parts with old sensor tech.

But when Nikon keeps an old sensor in a sub $1000 APSC body and upgrade everything else, the internet says "what a bummer". When Sony does the same, in a $6500 body, YouTubers call it "mind blowing", "perfect flagship". If Canon does the same its called "corporate greed", but when it comes to Sony its called "strategy".

It also debunks the old stupid notion, again, that Sony Semi keeps the best and state of the art sensor for Sony Imaging! Sony Semi can't send the best when Sony Imaging says "We don't want the best, cause its high development price lower our profit margin, thanks". So Sony users are stuck with 8k30p, and non downsampled 4k, for the next two years, while users of the other Sony Semi customer have 8k60p and downsampled 4k60. 

[MrSMW]

4 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Is this lens going to make @MrSMW once again rethink his wedding filmming / photography setup? (or no? Too heavy?)

Nope, but…

Well I am interested in it and was aware it was coming and for me, it is another lens that I am VERY interested in except for one fact, it’s a bit expensive 🤔

Until 2024 came along, for my needs, lenses have always been the Achilles Heel for me and I have both wanted and needed fast do it all lenses.

At the end of 2023, the ‘best’ option I had in L Mount was the Leica 24-90 f2.8-4 which was; big, heavy, variable aperture and not especially fast for indoor / low-light work.

Since then, all under 1kg/2lbs, we have had; Sigma 28-45mm f1.8, Sigma 28-105mm f2.8 and now this new Sony.

My system has been L Mount for photo & video for 2 years with Sony coming in this year for stills.

Nikon is coming back for 2025 for me as a hybrid option, as in can shoot stills alongside my main Sony (A7RV) cam, plus video alongside my Lumix.

But, as I am down to just 1 camera and 1 lens for L Mount and STILL no sign of any S2H or S2R, I have decided to throw my lot in with Sony & Nikon for 2025 and onwards.

Why?

Lenses. 

More specifically because I can lens share across both Sony and Nikon bodies with any e Mount lenses including if I fancied it, putting this new 28-70 f2 on any Nikon Z body.

Except I won’t because for one single fact and that is whilst any e Mount lens can be adapted with near native AF and IBIS on any Nikon Z body, you do not get the in camera corrections that you get with using native lenses on Sony bodies, so I am somewhat wary of using e Mount lenses on Nikon bodies.

More for stills than video, but a couple of tests required on that department before fully committing…

But back to this lens specifically…

Faced with a choice of Sigma 28-45mm f1.8 for indoor and low-light work plus Sigma 28-105mm f2.8 for outdoor, for the SAME cost as this new 28-70, this new 28-70 does not make financial sense to me.

It’s a stunning lens in isolation and if you do not need longer than 70mm, possibly great, but as above, I can’t see how it could work for me with this pairing of Sigma lenses which cover FAR more bases for the same total cost.

The camera doesn’t interest me. The S5ii does all I need and the Z6iii, most likely my main video unit for 2025, arguably even more and providing it can work with the Tamron 28-75 f2.8 which I am going to test on my Zf, will almost certainly be my video A cam.

Actually, I have tested that combo for stills over several weddings earlier this year and for stills, worked very well other than the odd vertical distortion that was a bit of a PITA to fix in post, but for video should be OK.

Mostly I am happy to see these new fast zooms which were but a dream only one year ago.

[Davide DB]

From Canada they say it is the perfect camera....
Too bad Sony segmentation still doesn't allow open gate on these units. So perfect my as*

 

BTW price increase demonstrate that the market is shrinking, shrinking, shrinking...

[Ninpo33]

9 hours ago, ND64 said:

But when Nikon keeps an old sensor in a sub $1000 APSC body and upgrade everything else, the internet says "what a bummer". When Sony does the same, in a $6500 body, YouTubers call it "mind blowing", "perfect flagship". If Canon does the same its called "corporate greed", but when it comes to Sony its called "strategy".

Ummm, have you seen the Gerald Undone review? He refreshingly pulls no punches this time. 

[eatstoomuchjam]

Maybe a lot of the reviewers are just thankful to do an easy review so close to the holidays.  No need to do much work reviewing the camera when it's basically just like the last one.

"The last one was just fine and this one, being basically the same...  is also just fine."

[Kino]

The main improvements for video over the A1 include the improved IBIS (8.5 vs 5.5), stabilization modes, rear screen (resolution and functionality), AF performance, LUT support (importing function), high ISO performance, higher second-base ISO in S-Log3 (5000 vs 4000), and the new implementation of S-Log3 to match the Venice/Burano color space and detail (as a dedicated B-cam).

Also, the 8K insect 🦋 stock footage business will never be the same!

[Emanuel]

41 minutes ago, Kino said:

Also, the 8K insect 🦋 stock footage business will never be the same!

LOL : ) Right. And certain people are still wondering about how to detract the trend now...

[IronFilm]

1 hour ago, Kino said:

Also, the 8K insect 🦋 stock footage business will never be the same!

True. But not because of the A1mk2, but because of AImk2

[mkabi]

On 11/19/2024 at 10:41 PM, Ninpo33 said:

Sony is known for its slow, incremental releases...

 

You must be new to the scene... cause this scene isn't even that old. Even the alpha cameras are only coming up on 10 years... we are already in like 5th iteration (especially in the a7r line)... every 2-3 years isn't slow, actually fast compared to Canon's 4 to 5 year per iteration. Yeah... they've slowed down compared to the beginning, but thats cause they know they got the Youtube community in their hands and they are quickly catching up to Canon's numbers. But to say they are "known for its slow, incremental releases..." since when? between Sony a7s ii and Sony a7s iii?

I'm sure a7V will wow... mostly because of price and config.

[Ninpo33]

21 minutes ago, mkabi said:

You must be new to the scene... cause this scene isn't even that old. Even the alpha cameras are only coming up on 10 years... we are already in like 5th iteration (especially in the a7r line)... every 2-3 years isn't slow, actually fast compared to Canon's 4 to 5 year per iteration. Yeah... they've slowed down compared to the beginning, but thats cause they know they got the Youtube community in their hands and they are quickly catching up to Canon's numbers. But to say they are "known for its slow, incremental releases..." since when? between Sony a7s ii and Sony a7s iii?

I'm sure a7V will wow... mostly because of price and config.

No, I’m not new to the scene LOL. I got a camera for my birthday and developed my first role of film at 8 years old. Shot home movies and skate videos on Hi 8. My first nice camera was a Panasonic DVX100 and then a AF100 followed by a 5Dmk2, Red Scarlet, GH2,3,4,5… etc

So sounds like maybe YOU are new to the scene LOL. 
 

I said slow, INCREMENTAL changes and that’s exactly what your post confirms. Sony is known for expensive cameras and making huge advances every 5 years and then trickling out the little changes here and there and riding their big releases for years. Then they give their new tech to lower end cameras and piss of the pros that bought a flagship. 
 

FX3 is how old now? Then comes the ZV-E1 with 90% of its features for half the price. It’s their business model and you can be a Sony Fan Boi all you want but LUMIX, Fuji and some others who are innovating and pumping out generous firmware updates, (That don’t brick your camera) have my loyalty. 
 

the A1mkii is just another meh update from them and they continue to piss off a lot of their flagship base. Many of the pros I work with mention it to me all the time. 

[Ninpo33]

43 minutes ago, Ninpo33 said:

The A1mkii is just another meh update from them and they continue to piss off a lot of their flagship base. Many of the pros I work with mention it to me all the time. 

But as I said above, I am happy about the minor update to video specs, because I want an A1 mk1. The camera was ahead of its time upon release and still has some features I want. This just means if you wait a couple of years with Sony you can scoop up the cutting edge tech at bargain prices on the used market. I rent the FX6 and FX3’s all the time for corporate work but am going to buy a ZV-E1 for myself at $1,300 soon. Lack of anamorphic support/open gate is criminal in this day and age but there is a place for a low MP video camera with good low light and AF in my kit. But not for $3k and certainly not a $7k A1mk2

[mkabi]

4 hours ago, Ninpo33 said:

No, I’m not new to the scene LOL. I got a camera for my birthday and developed my first role of film at 8 years old. Shot home movies and skate videos on Hi 8. My first nice camera was a Panasonic DVX100 and then a AF100 followed by a 5Dmk2, Red Scarlet, GH2,3,4,5… etc

So sounds like maybe YOU are new to the scene LOL. 
 

I said slow, INCREMENTAL changes and that’s exactly what your post confirms. Sony is known for expensive cameras and making huge advances every 5 years and then trickling out the little changes here and there and riding their big releases for years. Then they give their new tech to lower end cameras and piss of the pros that bought a flagship. 
 

FX3 is how old now? Then comes the ZV-E1 with 90% of its features for half the price. It’s their business model and you can be a Sony Fan Boi all you want but LUMIX, Fuji and some others who are innovating and pumping out generous firmware updates, (That don’t brick your camera) have my loyalty. 
 

the A1mkii is just another meh update from them and they continue to piss off a lot of their flagship base. Many of the pros I work with mention it to me all the time. 

I'm actually 44 years old, been in it since 2010. My first cam was t3i - been around the Canon camp for a while, my current cams is an R5 & BMCC 2.5K. I also owned a Raven at one point & the prime trio of cinema lenses, downscaled a lot. I like Fuji a lot... had the xt-30 for a solid minute but then sold it. But, I praise Fuji over Sony and Canon all the time. I'm in the Canon camp cause of the eco-system - hard time selling these lenses.

But your 5 year schedule and/or trickling down theory... I think you're hyper focused on the iteration between a7s2 and a7s3... every other alpha camera... put it out sooner (see the schedule here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Sony_MILC_cameras). They didn't have to put out a camera with the latest tech cause they didn't have any real competition.

You are praising Lumix... where is the s1h mark 2? What happened to the S9 isnt that trickling down?

[Ninpo33]

28 minutes ago, mkabi said:

Nah I’m not focused on that specific camera timeline sorry. Watch Gerald’s newest video on the A1mk2 and he sums it up perfectly and better than I ever could. He knows Sony well, that’s for sure. 
 

They have competition, plus that’s just lazy and them milking it as usual. Both A1 models are top of class for photo specs and amazing cameras but not for video. Certainly not at the $6,500 price point. 
 

I mention LUMIX for the generous video features given at the price point they sell for and the solid firmware updates. Sony and Canon are not known for these things. This is not new information, these are well known opinions about these brands all over forums, social media and YouTube. Expensive Sony cameras with huge gaps in updates and lack of features and the “canon cripple hammer”. These are literally memes. 
 

S1H mk2 is dependent on Sony for their sensors so I guess we’ll have to wait and see. Personally my opinion is that sensor tech is either at a current plateau or the tough market has forced everyone to get strategic and really watch the bottom line. All manufacturers are putting out nothing burgers in 2024 and recycled tech. At least the S9 is currently $1,300 on sale while the ZV-E1 is $2,000 and has no 6k, open gate, anamorphic support, shutter angle settings and crops into UHD even further to even get DCI 4k. Great little camera though and I’m looking for one once they hit $1,200 or so for an upcoming travel show. 

[Ninpo33]

Last post on this for fear of being called a true Panny Boi. 
 

Just picked up a used LUMIX S5 and Atomos Ninja V for $875 total with shipping included. That means for a gently used, 4 year old Camera at $500 I’m getting the awesome S1H sensor and older processing in a small body with the latest firmware update. 6k 12bit raw and 3.5k anamorphic 12 bit raw. Very good IBIS amd no record limits over HDMI. 

Shitty micro HDMI and bad autofocus for sure. But I can make do with both and am on adapted Mamiya 645 lenses to L-mount and lots of other fun stuff with no AF. 

Good luck finding anything with those full frame specs under $3k in Sony not sure about Canon but my guess is that it’s similar. What Sony cameras do 6k raw to an external recorder? 

[eatstoomuchjam]

7 minutes ago, Ninpo33 said:

What Sony cameras do 6k raw to an external recorder? 

It's a little bit of a trick question, I think.  Sony seems to have mostly skipped 6K for their cameras (unless there is one I'm forgetting).  They have 4K and 8K available.

As for Canon, the R6 Mark II can do 6K raw internally.  Used prices are usually around $1700 so about 2x your S5 kit, but a lot more convenient to use, and with good autofocus - both with native lenses, but also with adapted EF lenses.  Spend about $200 more than that and you can have 8k internal raw with the EOS R5.

Anyway, there's no doubt that a used S5 is one of the best deals around right now in terms of FF video.  But the target market for the Sony A1 is not the budget-minded filmmaker.  😅

[Ninpo33]

1 hour ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

It's a little bit of a trick question, I think.  Sony seems to have mostly skipped 6K for their cameras (unless there is one I'm forgetting).  They have 4K and 8K available.

As for Canon, the R6 Mark II can do 6K raw internally.  Used prices are usually around $1700 so about 2x your S5 kit, but a lot more convenient to use, and with good autofocus - both with native lenses, but also with adapted EF lenses.  Spend about $200 more than that and you can have 8k internal raw with the EOS R5.

Anyway, there's no doubt that a used S5 is one of the best deals around right now in terms of FF video.  But the target market for the Sony A1 is not the budget-minded filmmaker.  😅

It wasn’t a trick question as I honestly didn’t know if any Sony Cameras output anything other than 4k and 8k over HDMI. I wasn’t being smug. I felt like maybe the A7Rv might have but I’m not paying that much attention. 

And thanks for the Canon update again, not my focus so that’s why I asked. 

I never stated or implied the target market for the A1 is a budget filmmaker. 

The conversation above evolved/devolved to comparing brand strategy or updates between companies so that’s the only reason I brought up the extreme value of the S5 as a side note about the generous features Panasonic gives you for the money. You and I may both know about it but so many others have no clue what features they are missing despite the high cost of a Sony. And that’s fine. 
 

 

[IronFilm]

3 hours ago, Ninpo33 said:

I mention LUMIX for the generous video features given at the price point they sell for and the solid firmware updates.

I think we could mention Fujifilm too, perhaps not quite as great value as Panasonic (but Fuji's new X-M5 shakes that up! The best value camera currently?) but they do usually still provide very good value and do even better with their series of constant firmware updates.