New Sony 28-70mm f/2 Lens, and a new flagship camera the Alpha 1 II

[MrSMW]

So around €4000 

We get fleeced in Europe...but still not as much as some other parts of the World...

It makes a lot of financial sense to book a trip to somewhere like the US or Japan, buy a modest amount of kit you need, use it and return home.

Buying just a single used A1 in the US, for the same money I can buy one in Europe, would give me €1000-1300 to spend on tickets, hotels and all the burgers I can eat. Which are also bigger than the ones we get. And cheaper.

 

[Kino]

On 11/23/2024 at 6:40 PM, Ninpo33 said:

I fell in love with the footage shown at the link below. There’s a trick people discovered about sending out 8k to a Ninja recorder but recording in 4.2k Gerald Undone discusses it at length on one of his A1 update videos. it gives you the best possible image out of the camera I guess. 
 

 

Using the Gerald Undone "hack" (internal recording set to 8K, but HDMI output set to 4K), you can send out an oversampled 8K image to the Atomos and record it in 4K ProRes 422 10 bit. This bypasses noise reduction and LongGOP compression in the internal files, but I think this looks the worst in terms of color depth, as Sony lists 8K HDMI output as limited to 8-bit in the spec sheet:

As for the ProRes RAW in the A1, it is hard to pick out which shots are internal and which are ProRes RAW in this video (she lists the RAW shots in one of her responses):

I always look for Blue-channel clipping as a giveaway for ProRes RAW, but otherwise everything cuts together seamlessly. This suggests that the 12-bit 4.3K ProRes RAW upscales nicely to 8K and that the 8K's 10-bit internal is good enough to match with 12-bit color.

[Kino]

52 minutes ago, Kino said:

Using the Gerald Undone "hack" (internal recording set to 8K, but HDMI output set to 4K), you can send out an oversampled 8K image to the Atomos and record it in 4K ProRes 422 10 bit. This bypasses noise reduction and LongGOP compression in the internal files, but I think this looks the worst in terms of color depth, as Sony lists 8K HDMI output as limited to 8-bit in the spec sheet:

Oh wait! I realized that the 8K internal / 4K HDMI setting can be recorded in true ProRes 422 10 bit, as it is bypassing the 8-bit limitation on the 8K HDMI output. So, it is truly a "hack."

[Kino]

The greatest thing about the A1II is that Sony didn't replace an amazing sensor for video with a higher megapixel sensor that would create rolling shutter problems and downgraded video specs. That was my biggest concern.

You can also see the advantage of the A1II's new AF for wildlife, sports, and motorsport video:

 

[IronFilm]

On 11/26/2024 at 12:21 PM, Andrew Reid said:

the cash-rich section of the market - working pros

Many are not rich at all 😞 

[MrSMW]

2 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Many are not rich at all 😞

Tell me about it!

[Andrew Reid]

On 11/25/2024 at 11:21 PM, Andrew Reid said:

The a1 prices will benefit though from the cash-rich section of the market - working pros - wanting latest and greatest a1 ii and a9 iii instead, whereas previously they had been focused on the a1 as the ultimate workhorse from Sony.🙂

The cash rich working pros will buy the a1 ii and a9 iii is what I said.

The not so rich working pros are better off not upgrading.

As the existing models are so good, even the a7 iv.

[Davide DB]

On 11/27/2024 at 12:44 AM, Kino said:

The greatest thing about the A1II is that Sony didn't replace an amazing sensor for video with a higher megapixel sensor that would create rolling shutter problems and downgraded video specs. That was my biggest concern.

You can also see the advantage of the A1II's new AF for wildlife, sports, and motorsport video:

 

 

 

Not to nitpick but.
The photos are wonderful and so are the almost static shots but the cheetah chase doesn't seem like a good choice to advertise the autofocus. There are several moments that are heavily out of focus.

I have seen much better done by wildlife operators with Red and manual focus.  It seems to me that the operator's handle is beyond question.

Edit: I'll put my hands out: they might be in focus but they look blurry because of the heat emanating from the ground. IMHO not a good example anyway.

[Andrew Reid]

The talk around this camera is quite bonkers out there on the internet.

Complaints of it being $6.5k with a 4 year old sensor and no 8k/60p

It's designed to compete with the lowly EOS R1, and it outperforms it in just about every way.

It's priced to compete with the existing $6k rivals, whilst being smaller and lighter than them.

It's not designed to appeal to enthusiasts in the $3.5k range or a7s III users.

In terms of the spec, it's the pinnacle of what a camera can do pre-generative fakery era. It will take a complete change of concept for the a1 II to be surpassed.

The only mirrorless camera that out-does it in terms of ultimate image quality and resolution is the GFX 100 II.

But not in terms of speed or autofocus or sports.

Meanwhile the a1 does 95% of it as well... for soon to be $2.8k-ish on eBay.

What's not to like about that?

Panasonic need to get those new cameras out, otherwise Sony and Nikon will really kill the market for future high-end Lumix cameras.

[Davide DB]

3 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

Panasonic need to get those new cameras out, otherwise Sony and Nikon will really kill the market for future high-end Lumix cameras.

 

S1s were introduced in 2019.

The A1 in 2021 and in 2024 the new iteration with the A1II.

Panasonic still standing still. Everything has happened in the meantime.

But with cameras already on the market like this, the Z8 and Canon's new R's, what does Panasonic have to invent to keep up?

If indeed a second generation of the S series ever comes out, how long ago did they start designing? The market seems to be flying by comparison.

[Andrew Reid]

When it comes to Sony the question is what do they invent next that moves things forward.

I can't think of much that's left.

And even if we go back to the 2019 vintage S1H, there's nothing particular missing from the image quality department at 6K/24p.

The problem for Panasonic is that they put all those resources into the S1, S1R and S1H and then just left the market basically.

It's not the way you gain market share is it?

A one off attempt...

The cheaper cameras (S9, S5) are all well and good but they are mainly just killing Micro Four Thirds, not so much taking sales of the A7 IV.

So we have to sadly conclude that Panasonic are idiots.

[MrSMW]

51 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

So we have to sadly conclude that Panasonic are idiots

I’m beginning to think that like, or at least WTF are they doing?

Or not doing.

Maybe the bean counters have said it’s not economically viable to produce the next gen S1 line, but I personally think that less than stellar sales have not been because of the kit, but despite the kit, ie, their marketing department has been asleep whilst the other brands have been eating Lumix’s lunch.

Panny Lumix seem to have a lot of respect within the industry as in if you know, you know, but to the average consumer out on the street it’s Nikon vs Canon for decades with more recently, Sony and Fuji entering the mix.

Leica and Hassie are different beasts altogether and I don’t include them.

The bottom line for me is they have one more year to come good. Lumix.

For 2025, I’m using 3 different brands of camera.

Sony (A7RV) for high end stills.

Lumix (S5ii) for primary video.

Nikon (Zf) for candid stills and secondary video.

At the end of 2025, if Lumix (or Sigma even) have come out with a second gen S line which for me would need to be an S2H and an S2R, I could be back all in with L Mount now that their lens line meets my needs.

If they don’t, then an all Sony line up is unlikely with an all Nikon or 2 Nikon + 1 Sony mash up being preferable, the beauty of Nikon being with the Z Mount, it offers the most options.

I do want Lumix to come good and they have been notoriously slow on some new models but if no sign by Spring next year, then I think they are done.

[Kino]

On 11/29/2024 at 5:36 AM, Davide DB said:

 

Not to nitpick but.
The photos are wonderful and so are the almost static shots but the cheetah chase doesn't seem like a good choice to advertise the autofocus. There are several moments that are heavily out of focus.

I have seen much better done by wildlife operators with Red and manual focus.  It seems to me that the operator's handle is beyond question.

Edit: I'll put my hands out: they might be in focus but they look blurry because of the heat emanating from the ground. IMHO not a good example anyway.

I agree and I don't think it is the heat from the ground. There are definitely a few out-of-focus moments in the cheetah chase. Perhaps it is operator error, wrong settings, or preproduction issues. I guess my point is that, especially when considering the autosport clip, the A1II's AF is much improved from the A1, where video AF was more limited in terms of AF types, performance, and subjects.

For wildlife video, the R1 seems like the best AF in the business:

Using a DNG converter, you could also use the R1's 14-bit RAW photo bursts as video clips, since the high-speed buffer is sustained for a good length of time (10-20 seconds).

[Davide DB]

Yes but it is a trick that can work for occasional use.

As I wrote in the A6700 thread, in investigating the use of AF for wildlife video, I am finding that it is difficult to find reliable feedback. 99% of videos are for photographers. And I find that many features are not applicable or totally missing for the video part.

Not to mention that even the lens manufacturers are not assuring or denying the very performance that is bandied about for video. In short, when you see rave reviews for AF everyone assumes that what you see applies to the photo and video departments (there is usually a YT star in and out of the frame with his stupid head) but for the latter there is still a long way to go.

[j_one]

22 hours ago, MrSMW said:

At the end of 2025, if Lumix (or Sigma even) have come out with a second gen S line which for me would need to be an S2H and an S2R, I could be back all in with L Mount now that their lens line meets my needs.

If they don’t, then an all Sony line up is unlikely with an all Nikon or 2 Nikon + 1 Sony mash up being preferable, the beauty of Nikon being with the Z Mount, it offers the most options.

I do want Lumix to come good and they have been notoriously slow on some new models but if no sign by Spring next year, then I think they are done.

I believe I'm in the same boat. I've been thinking about this. The S5ii seemed like a revival in momentum, not just for PDAF but for how much they packed into that release and its subsequent firmware updates. But where are the prosumer releases? Gh7...mkay...

I don't know if these rumors of S1 successors are well grounded or just fan whispers, but I'm getting to the point where putting brand favoritism aside for the sake of choosing the right tool for the job/business takes precedence.

And that's looking like Nikon Z + Sony E combo.

Runner up being Canon RF offerings. C80 and R5ii look great.

I've been wanting a refresh of the S1r without having to go Leica, or a PDAF video hybrid in a moire-free body, or reduced HDMI latency so it's actually usable in professional environments.

I never thought I'd go back to Sony or Canon after all these years, but it's getting harder to deny what the market calls for. The A1 and Z8/9 bodies are foolproof. There's a lot of FX owner ops that stay getting work just off their kit. I'm tempted.

For all the features Panny is known for, other manufacturers are starting to include them in their hybrids (Sony adding Braw and shutter angle, Canon adding waveform, Nikon internal raw etc). So they stand out less and less, save for stellar IBIS, open gate. And for that, I can just keep an s9 on my hip no matter what system I'm invested in.

To be real, what had me hold on a bit longer was Blackmagic going L-mount with the Pyxis. That was interesting.

I'll wait a bit longer and see. But the A1/Z8 hitting $3k~ is looking more attractive now!

 

[MrSMW]

1 hour ago, j_one said:

I'm getting to the point where putting brand favoritism aside for the sake of choosing the right tool for the job/business takes precedence.

And that is the sum of it for me.

I would like to stay as brand loyal as I can, but more because I just do not like change, but at the end of the day you are a working pro and something is not quite working as well as it might…and there is a better option, then moving to that option makes sense. If it’s financially viable to do so.

Lumix/L Mount came good for me for video and I thought they would for stills, but it has not happened and I have zero idea if they will now. For me it really is a 50:50 whether I believe they are going to follow up on the S1R especially.

And it’s not too late, but I started 2024 approx 50% invested in Sony and Nikon, plus 50% L Mount.

My 2025 season almost certainly starts 33% Sony, 33% Nikon and 33% L.

I’d rather not be using 3 brands, but as above, right tools for the job take precedence and in my particular set up, the fact that I’m using 3 different lens platforms and sets of batteries etc, actually is not that big a deal.

But it will be just 2 brands for 2026 as a maximum and ideally just 1, but I need to see how it plays out now.

Zero necessity now for me, - that is now covered, but instead, simply a case of want.

[hojomo]

I think one aspect of Panasonic that differs from the other manufacturers (at this point) is a continued reliance on China for production. I don't know that for sure though.

Seems that basically everyone else has moved production to Thailand or Vietnam; with an occasional high-end product made in Japan. I don't think I have seen any discussion/press releases of Panasonic making a similar transition. I have read that they do well in China with camera sales (relative to other markets and due in part because they are made there? Anyone know if similar for other Panasonic electronics in Chinese market?).

It could be that the larger geo-political situation has contributed to the delay in the release of follow-ups to the S series.

Everyone knows Sony sensors are used for the vast majority of everyone's cameras but Canon. Nikon has always seemed to get cycles of preferential treatment in the past with this arrangement. Panasonic lost their sensor independence and has never gotten anything from Sony except off the shelf designs. Supposedly the GH7 is their own design and contracted to Onsemi. Maybe Panasonic doesn't want to release anything until they have a FF sensor made through them.

 

[IronFilm]

11 hours ago, j_one said:

To be real, what had me hold on a bit longer was Blackmagic going L-mount with the Pyxis. That was interesting.

The mount is swappable (such as with PL or EF), I understand why BMD didn't offer E Mount due to licensing issues, and thus L Mount is more logical.

But I kinda wish some random Chinese Third Party would put out an E Mount optional accessory (even if merely a dumb mount for manual lenses) to put on the Pyxis. Together with the fact Pyxis uses the BP-U series of batteries that would make it very easy for FS5/FS7/FX6/FX9 users to swap back and forth with a BMD Pyxis is they wished. 

[MrSMW]

9 hours ago, hojomo said:

Supposedly the GH7 is their own design and contracted to Onsemi. Maybe Panasonic doesn't want to release anything until they have a FF sensor made through them.

I've never really understood the sensor argument. Just commission one then FFS!! The S1R had one by Tower Jazz did they not?

And as to the size thing, surely it's the same thing? M4/3/APSC/FF/MF, - just make one and then cut it to size?

Or maybe I'm just showing my complete lack of technical understanding about these things? 🤔