Nikon Z6 III and Zf first impressions

[Andrew Reid]

After finally selling some stuff (Nikon D850) was all set to buy a Zf today but chickened out and got a Leica SL2 instead.

A bit of a u-turn that!

First up, the Z6 III. It's a tubby and ugly looking body, it makes the original Z6 feel a lot more premium and slimmer. The screen is worse, build and ergonomics. The spec however is really good and the 6K RAW internal recording is un-cropped at 60fps, with 4K/120p available too in DX crop mode. So the spec is a winner and it has everything but they forgot to add a soul. Which is a pity.

2200 euros brand new with current special offers is good, and 6K RAW internal 60p would have been a dream spec back in 2019.

In 2024, it is becoming normal to see 6K in some form, and RAW is not really the form I want it in. The file sizes are too big and it's overkill for me.

Next up, the Nikon Zf. 4K oversampled 10bit N-LOG with the best IBIS and autofocus for under 2k... This is a full frame Fuji X-T5, and was selling at 1800 euros new which is decent price to be honest. But it is clear Nikon's intention was to capture the Fuji X crowd with a cheap camera and iffy build quality, rather than make something special and that's where the Leica SL2 comes in because this is a former $6800 camera that's now worth just 2300 euros in good condition second hand, so why settle for the Zf when for just 500 smackers more you can get a proper Leica?

There are aspects of the Zf design that completely spoil it. The massive ugly sticker on the back, which you can't remove, ruins the retro appearance of it, and in the hand, the buttons wouldn't be out of place on a Casio calculator for £2, the battery and card slot door is appalling - plastic and full of scratches even on the display model which has never left the shop, and the general grade of plastic parts wouldn't be out of place in Poundland or on a coke bottle. The plastic mount and general build of the 40mm F2 SE is borderline insulting. A real shame, because the Zf is a very capable machine with a superb image. It needs an L-bracket with a grip, it needs a better 40mm, it needs premium materials and not the strange mix of brass and plastic. The front and top of the camera look and feel great, but the bottom and back are shockingly awful and out of place.

Now the thing is... I would have bought it anyway, it's great for video, really good 10bit N-LOG, stabilisation is superb and the EVF is large and clear. But the price difference is now just so small, and look at what you get... 47 megapixels, 5K open gate, 4K/60 full frame, even better EVF, and build quality / ergonomics in a different league. There's also the firmware updates since release, and a new battery which I'll come to in a moment. The firmware updates have added in-camera LUT support, so you can load a .Cube file and monitor with it through the EVF and screen, very nice. L-LOG is much improved from the first SL.

The SL2-S was also an option, at just 2200 used from the Leica store in Berlin.

This however, does not do full frame 60p, no 5K open gate, less resolution for cropping and photography, though you do get slightly crisper 4K from the oversampled sensor with no pixel binning.

The new battery which came along with the Q3 is much needed on the SL2 to avoid the original issues with it locking you out of high-powered video modes like 4K/60p 10bit when the battery drops below 50% charge - the old battery is just very unstable, and it really put me my first SL2 back in 2020. So with the firmware updates and new battery, allegedly Leica have finally fixed the biggest issue with the SL2.

I think it's a really underrated cine camera, and a pleasure to shoot with.

So there you have it... If you want soul, retro, feel, premium materials... Leica SL2 over Nikon Zf any day... for just 500 euros more.

[ND64]

Yes, if you can live with contrast AF. 

[Andrew Reid]

I have a Sony for autofocus.

Leica for manual focus and GFX 100.

I can live without pretty much any modern mirrorless camera lens, as I feel they have lost the plot... both on price and size.

The rendering isn't exactly great either on the modern stuff... too perfect.

[MrSMW]

Leica fangirl shill 🥱

But seriously, fair play and all the SL2 really lacked for me was any form of tilting or rotating screen, otherwise a used one could have been on the cards.

And those are insanely low prices now!

I must have lower standards because I haven’t got the same issues with the build of the Zf. OK, it’s a given it’s not going to be Leica build quality, but no issues myself and it shoots brilliantly!

[Ilkka Nissila]

I also like the Zf build a lot. But I've used Nikon a long time and I guess one grows to the way they do things.

[Andrew Reid]

For me there has to be a good reason for it being styled the way it is, otherwise main factor of it comes across as a gimmick if the design is a surface level only thing, I may as well spend a bit more and get the Z6 III or an EOS R6 II.

Love the way it looks, just not so much the cheap plastic feel.

For the price you don't expect Leica, but then you kind of do now due to the used prices of stuff.

You can also get the original SL if stills are the main thing and video not too much... That is down somewhere in region of 1300 now.

So those are the cameras the Zf have to compete with if it wants to be a Leica-clone.

If it were more ergonomic or nicer to hold than the SL2 with a reassuring feel of quality to it I definitely would have got it instead as the new IBIS seemed really a step above everything I've tried so far, and the autofocus / same processor as Z8 has a definite appeal as well.

[Andrew Reid]

If they do a Zf II here are some ideas for improvements...

1. Dump that HUGE sticker on the back, put the info on the base of the camera and much smaller.

2. Card door on side, not under.

3. Battery door alloy, not plastic

4. Replace "i" button with a joystick

5. Use more premium d-pad and button materials / design

6. Thinner bezel on the LCD

7. Option to replace plastic PU grip with real leather for $50

8. A deeper built in grip - not too big that it spoils the film camera-style design but at least something rather than nothing

9. Auto ISO is a mess... Have an auto setting on the ISO dial FFS

10. Shutter dials needs 1/50... Can't shoot 60p in PAL countries at 1/60

11. Screen should be a flip down design (X-T5) or similar to a7r V, as the vlogger style one debases it style-wise

12. Have a fucking aperture dial on the retro-styled Z lenses, and a higher grade of plastic housing, or even better use metal like your average 75 dollar chinese Amazon lens perhaps?

13. There is room for a mid-range and higher-range higher price version, that with the better Z6 III sensor tech and 4K/120fps

14. Eye cup isn't padded enough

15. Get rid of the + / - zoom buttons and Disp. The zoom can be a one button to punch in and half press to come out. The Disp should be an up-tap on the d-pad. Also get rid of the quick menu button and replace it with a focus point joystick, and have the quick menu accessed via middle button of d-pad.

16. Allow the B/W mode to be programmed to any LUT

17. Sack the guy who did the back of the camera

[MrSMW]

9 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

For me there has to be a good reason for it being styled the way it is, otherwise main factor of it comes across as a gimmick if the design is a surface level only thing, I may as well spend a bit more and get the Z6 III

Well obviously they are playing the retro card a la Fuji and for anyone not coming from either shooting with the type of cameras the Zf is inspired by, or anything like the Fuji rangefinderesque or actual rangefinder body type cameras, the Zf body doesn't make much sense to those who have grown up with more grippy DSLR type designs.

I came from that background using the type of cameras the Zf was inspired by for 5+ years at college, uni and then professionally so I'm OK with the format. Plus extensive use of Fuji X Pro 1 and 2's.

The rear screen is a bit of an anomaly for this type of camera but actually, for stills especially, it makes a lot of sense and as someone who shoots maybe 25-30% in the portrait orientation, a very quick and easy system to use, along as you don't use a camera strap because camera straps make the use of these types of screen a real PITA.

I don't (use a strap), but either the Spider Holster or a small bag, so not an issue. I did try a strap again but unless it is extremely thin for the first say 6 inches at least, PITA!

Vs the Z6III, that camera is supposedly more capable and is definitely better ergonomically, but the older sensor in the Zf that it shares with the Z6ii, is arguably 'better'. More DR and from some extensive testing from others, just appears to have a nicer image. I think it's the same sensor as in the OG S5 and a few other cameras, possibly the OG Z6 also?

This sensor does not offer the full frame 50/60p options etc that the newer sensor does, but it seems at the expense of outright image quality?

I do think it's too big however and as someone who has added and needs an additional grip (despite my background with this style of camera) especially hopping backwards and forwards with more 'DSLR' type bodies, but wish it was at least 10% smaller. Weight is rarely an issue and I would rather it was smaller even if it got heavier.

Anyway, not trying to defend the thing at all costs as many if not most of your points are quite valid, but my experience of it is it is one of those cameras where the reality of it is much better than the spec sheet or initial first impressions.

When it first came out, I wasn't expecting it or looking for anything like it.

But when it was announced last year, I was intrigued enough to pre-order one, something I rarely do.

Initial first impressions were it was bigger than expected.

Shot the thing and fell in love with it immediately and that rarely happens for me with cameras. 

Tried it professionally with mixed results on a few jobs and the two areas where it did not quite work for me were:

A. Use of adapted Tamron zoom lenses which made for slightly odd handling. The Zf is better with primes for sure.

B. Use of adapted Tamron zoom lenses without Sony body in camera corrections produced a few odd results that were not always possible to fully correct in post.

So I sold it and bought a Sony A7RV instead which is without a doubt, a far superior bit of kit in almost every regard.

Except:

A. Low light and

B. Fun.

So I bought back a Zf on special offer for just over £1500 on special offer which was not far off what I sold my OG one to MPB for back in the Spring.

Fun levels have been restored.

In summary, as I have said before, I think it's one of those bits of kit you either gel with, or you don't, - very much a marmite camera. Personally, I love marmite won buttered toast so works for me.

It's also one of those cameras you have to go shoot to double-check you gel with it. There is something in it's use, the rear screen res that I use exclusively, the shutter sound and feel that just does it for me.

9 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

If it were more ergonomic or nicer to hold than the SL2 with a reassuring feel of quality to it I definitely would have got it instead as the new IBIS seemed really a step above everything I've tried so far, and the autofocus / same processor as Z8 has a definite appeal as well.

Now that one is one that I have been on and off the fence with and IMO is the 'new' Leica SL2.

Arguably, the SL3 is more capable in a few areas, but at pretty much twice the price.

Used Z8's are still not quite low enough for me, but I am off the fence now re. the Z8 and if I was going to trade my A7RV, ie, my pro work stills camera, for anything, it would be the Z8 based on what is available today.

I checked MPB prices and the SL2 can be had for around €2.6k for a 'like new' one and the Z8 €3.8k, but just for some screen articulation alone, I'd need to go with the Z8.

Still got a Leica itch to scratch some time. Maybe...

[Andrew Reid]

1800 euros Nikon Zf

2300 euros Leica SL2 and Canon EOS R5

And therein lies the dilemma 🙂

[Andrew Reid]

5 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

Shot the thing and fell in love with it immediately and that rarely happens for me with cameras.

I suppose it helps to have the GH2 mindset... It might be a bit cheap and look like a toy but it's capable of great things.

And of course it is nowhere near as cheap or as plastic-fantastic as a GH2 but the bar has been moved on since then quite a bit in terms of build quality and ergonomics.

If the Leica SL2 was still unobtainable price wise (just saw some for £1700 on eBay UK btw), take that out of the picture and I think you have the choice between Zf and EOS R5.

The R5 we can probably forgive now it works properly and has had more firmware updates than a Talkie Toaster.

The Zf needs forgiveness for not being a Leica.

Maybe there needs to be a camera sin forgiveness ceremony this Christmas.

5 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

So I sold it and bought a Sony A7RV instead which is without a doubt, a far superior bit of kit in almost every regard.

Except:

A. Low light and

B. Fun.

So I bought back a Zf on special offer for just over £1500 on special offer which was not far off what I sold my OG one to MPB for back in the Spring.

Fun levels have been restored.

Makes me wonder if Sony will get in on the retro camera game?

[MrSMW]

8 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

1800 euros Nikon Zf

2300 euros Leica SL2 and Canon EOS R5

And therein lies the dilemma 🙂

Possibly, but I don't see them as competitors.

The SL2 and R5 sure, but neither with the Zf which is a different beast.

The Zf really is more of that slightly larger personal camera with a prime that can do hybrid really well, but is not quite that lens platform that the other two in this mix are.

I think all 3 options have merit, but for different reasons and ultimately as it usually does, it comes down to use case.

[MrSMW]

5 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

Makes me wonder if Sony will get in on the retro camera game?

Updated RX1R?

[Andrew Reid]

We can dream...

Sony should go all in with a Minolta film camera style mirrorless.

Of the two companies that should have bought the Olympus camera division, Panasonic and Sony, they could have been riding high on a full frame PEN by now had they some imagination.

[MrSMW]

Well pretty much the only future type of camera I am interested in is a high megapixel point and shoot a la Q3.

Right now, if I had the cashidos, I'd scratch that Leica itch with a Q3 43.

100mp would be even better for increased cropping ability.

I know some moan about increasing megapixels in cameras and I am of the opinion that 24 is quite enough in most scenarios, but it's that ability to crop either in camera or in post that works for me.

That purity of going out with a compact fixed prime camera but knowing you can crop the shit out of it.

I've considered the GFX 100S for this purpose, the Hassie X2D (ha, way above my means), the Q3 itself, a used RX1R (a bit too old now) and the X100VI (not quite capable enough IMO) plus the A7CR.

The only thing that bothers me abut the A7CR though is the shitty rear screen, the single card slot and something else I forget that put me off and made me realise the A7RV is just better, whether used as a fixed prime 'compact', or as a more advanced lens platform.

But right now, if I had 6.5k euros burning a hole in my pocket, Q3 43 for sure. And maybe after the end of the 2025 season, I will... 😉

[MrSMW]

This mornings amusement:

https://camerasize.com/compact/#934,917.1018,898.952,ha,t

Leica Q3 43 but for me would need a base plate and a thumb rest and there is a bronze set available from PolarPro which looks ridiculously desirable 🤩 https://www.polarpro.com/products/leica-q3-accessories?srsltid=AfmBOorJs0qAPlW2wH0G9AHm4eHV97YOvl1QocFhgGtcfURYewDSkB5T

Vs

My poor man's Q3 43, my Zf with 40mm f2 SE lens, except not shown is the Smallrig grip.

Vs

My A7RV with Sigma 35mm f2 Contemporary which arguably, other than badge and heritage and all that shit, is probably better than the Q3 anyway. Have a set of 20mm f2, 35mm f2, 65mm f2 and the 90mm f2.8 in a small bag and you have something off the charts more capable than a Q3 in 28mm or 43mm flavour. And an orange baseplate is available and maybe if I look hard enough, a bronze one... https://www.digit-photo.com/3-LEGGED-THING-Ellie-L-Bracket-Universel-Orange-r3LEGGEDTHINGD16378.html

[Andrew Reid]

I would pick a7r V + Sigma 35mm f2 any day over the Q3.

Especially as it is cheaper!

[MrSMW]

46 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

I would pick a7r V + Sigma 35mm f2 any day over the Q3.

Especially as it is cheaper!

Well out walking my dogs for the past hour, and came to the same conclusion.

Other than build/brand/looks, but in the real world...

It's an option I have been considering now that I have the Zf and that is dump the zooms completely and have instead:

Zf + 40mm f2 as my candid, all day, walkabout, mid focal length option, plus,

A7RV with 3x lens options from the Sigma contemporary line, the; 20, 65 and 90 and then use them either at those focal lengths, or at the turn of a dial to become; '30'/'100'/'135'...and that has a TON of appeal, - less overall range and less flexibility with any prime compared with any zoom, even with cropping, but smaller, lighter, higher quality results, better low light capability etc.

And as you say, a used A7RV is FAR cheaper, never mind more capable than a Q3 and no bigger or heavier if the Q3 has a baseplate and thumb grip. 

But it's still not a Leica and wouldn't love it as much... But then, there is also the real world and the difference in cost could be the bucket list 2 weeks in Japan...

[Ilkka Nissila]

I hadn't even noticed that there is a sticker, after using the camera for over a year. 😉 

Having the battery door also access the cards means there has to be only one hatch instead of two. In a small camera, this makes some sense. Having more hatches splits the camera's surface and in this case it would probably affect how nice it is to hold with the right hand. The MicroSD card is a bit annoying; I would have preferred dual SD or SD/CFexpress type B but I solve the problem by simply having a 1 TB MicroSD card in the second slot permanently and never taking it out. I normally insert/remove the SD card and use a card reader with it, or stick it to the computer's internal SD card reader. The MicroSD card is the in-camera backup slot (for stills) and if I ever need to access those files on it, I do have a card reader for that as well, but I might use the USB-C cable to transfer those files as I don't want to handle the super-tiny MicroSD cards any more than necessary.

The battery door seems similar to other Nikons with the EN-EL15c battery. I have never run into problems with it. In the Smallrig grip that came with the camera in my country (and  also the Nikon GR-1 grip that is available in Japan) there is a gap in the base plate of the grip that allows batteries and cards to be accessed.

The i button is an integral part of the menu system of the camera and allows accessing some important settings. I don't think Nikon should remove it from the camera as that would mean menu dives would have to be done for even some of the most common settings (since there are fewer physical controls belonging to the "modern" interface, to make space for the "traditional" dials). Another custom menu that is available is My Menu and that's a list of user-selectable menu items that is collected in a list that the user can order and access from a function button. I set the front Fn button to access My Menu. These menus are similar across Nikons of the past ten years or so, and leaving out the option to access one of them would be problematic and make camera operation slow.

I don't need the joystick and the multi-controller works fine for my purposes. I use it in preference to the joystick even on cameras that have both because only the multi-controller is available on all Nikons and the joystick center button press can easily accidentally lead to slipping the jostick to the side. It's much easier to access the center button on the multi-controller reliably. I haven't noticed any quality of materials issue with the controls.

I don't know what a PU grip is. There are multiple add-on grips and "skins" available for the Zf. I use the Smallrig grip when I need to use the Zf with a bit larger lens so it's a bit more comfortable to handle with a lens like 135/1.8. I don't think the camera is a good fit for really large lenses though, as it is too small and doesn't support an optional vertical grip.  But in a pinch it can be used also with large lenses, just not ergonomically ideal but does the job as a backup camera.

Auto ISO basically works the same as it does on all Nikon cameras that support Auto ISO. You specify the ISO you want to use and the camera overrides it when it has to do so to achieve the metered (+- EC) exposure. Since I have the front Fn button open My Menu and the Auto ISO setting is on the top of that list, I can toggle Auto ISO by pressing Fn + OK. It's no more difficult than pressing and holding ISO on other cameras and turning the sub-command dial to turn Auto ISO ON/OFF. I would argue that Fn + OK is even easier as it doesn't require any finger acrobatics.

 

For video use, set the shutter speed dial to 1/3 STEP and use the main command dial to select shutter speed in 1/3 stop increments. Adding 1/50 and 1/120 on the shutter dial would throw off the classical settings and the idea that you can count stops by counting the clicks easily. They could of course shift the values by 1/3 stop - I believe this was available on the Df but not on the Zf or Zfc. But 1/125 s isn't 1/120 s, so specific video shutter speeds probably would make sense to offer for the main command dial when in video mode. Rumor is that Nikon will be adding shutter angle as option on the Z9 in a firmware update.

 

I prefer the Z8's two-axis tilting screen over the one in the Zf which flips out. I find the flipping-out screen quite a nuisance as the camera strap can easily get entangled with it when opening it to the side. Another issue is that the flipped-out screen is (way) off axis whereas the two-axis tilting screen is close to being on the optical axis even when tilted. However, I think the two-axis screen would make the camera thicker and more expensive, and selfie shooters wouldn't be happy.

 

Aperture rings are available on third-party lenses such as Viltrox, Voigtländer etc.

 

Z6III has a faster sensor read time but more read noise than the Zf. There is in my opinion space for the higher quality Zf sensor for those who don't need the faster sensor read time and prefer the higher quality image.

 

DISP is a different function from what is on the multi-controller up/down. DISP goes through different shooting information configurations (that one can configure if one wants to change them) during viewfinder or live view use while shooting, whereas up/down on the multi-controller moves the focus point when shooting and it shifts between different playback data displays in playback mode. Both need their own controls to scroll through. As for +/- zooming, it's been the same since at least 12 years on Nikons and I don't think they're changing it. 😉 It used to be that zooming in/out was a press-and-hold a button + turn main command dial, but I suspect most people find the separate +/- buttons easier on the fingers. What I don't like is that Nikon keeps shifting the buttons around from model to model, making it harder to instinctively use the camera without looking when using different models over time or even on the same day. I swapped the DISP and playback buttons in custom settings so that the playback button is closer to where it is on the Z8 (it's still not the same button but one above it). I don't normally press DISP all that often so it can be in more difficult-to-access location.

 

Anyway my main complaints about the Zf (which I love to use) are that it doesn't have either of the standard Nikon connectors for firing radio flash (SB-5000) remotely and the same connectors also work for cable release which is also not available. Only via bluetooth can be the camera remote triggered and there is a slight delay associated with that, which is annoying. However, I bought the camera anyway for the reasons that (1) I love the dials-based interface and "feel", (2) it has a better high ISO image quality than the Z8 and so it's a good complement to the Z8 for low-light shooting; the mechanical shutter of the Zf also saved the day two weeks ago when I got banding on the electronic shutter of the Z8 in theatrical lights, (3) it has a slim profile so it takes very little space in the bag when I need it as a backup camera. If I changed something it would be adding a 10-pin connector so it would work with the same accessories and remote flash control as the Z8 and other recent Nikon cameras. But we have always something missing from the Nikon "fusion" models, and the Zf is the best of the line yet (Df/Zfc/Zf). Not having access to SB-5000 as radio remote is a significant problem for me as it means if I use the Zf as backup on a portrait shoot then I wouldn't be able to use those remotes if the main camera fails. So in the end I will need a third Z camera just for that purpose. It's sometimes hard to understand why Nikon takes away features that are useful. Perhaps they think SB-5000 radio remote control hasn't been that popular instead people choose cheaper options which sometimes work. The SB-5000 + WR-R10 has been very reliable for me, the best in that respect of any radio controlled flash. It just always works, and is less unwieldy on camera than Profoto.

 

The Leica SL/SL2 are not similar cameras as they don't have mechanical dials with marked settings that one can use even with the camera off. Also the Leicas don't take Z lenses so for a Nikon lens user it's a no-go.  As for the modern lenses, for me what is important is that the lineup produces a consistent look across focal lengths and the Z mount S-line does that for me. Yes, it's very modern and contrasty and that takes some getting used to be as long as there are no surprises I can work with it.

[MrSMW]

1 hour ago, Ilkka Nissila said:

I hadn't even noticed that there is a sticker, after using the camera for over a year

Nor me, but I can't unseen it now 😝

1 hour ago, Ilkka Nissila said:

The MicroSD card is a bit annoying; I would have preferred dual SD or SD/CFexpress type B but I solve the problem by simply having a 1 TB MicroSD card in the second slot permanently and never taking it out

Same, - it's just an internal back up drive for me also.

1 hour ago, Ilkka Nissila said:

There are multiple add-on grips and "skins" available for the Zf

Another rabbit hole for me to explore. Thanks for that 😜

1 hour ago, Ilkka Nissila said:

I don't think the camera is a good fit for really large lenses though, as it is too small and doesn't support an optional vertical grip.  But in a pinch it can be used also with large lenses, just not ergonomically ideal but does the job as a backup camera

Yep. Or prime lens wander about all day camera.

1 hour ago, Ilkka Nissila said:

Z6III has a faster sensor read time but more read noise than the Zf

Yep, Zf is the better low light camera.

1 hour ago, Ilkka Nissila said:

Aperture rings are available on third-party lenses such as Viltrox, Voigtländer etc

Sitting on the fence whether I should get the Voigt 40mm f1.2 in Z or E Mount...

1 hour ago, Ilkka Nissila said:

I prefer the Z8's two-axis tilting screen over the one in the Zf which flips out. I find the flipping-out screen quite a nuisance as the camera strap can easily get entangled with it when opening it to the side. Another issue is that the flipped-out screen is (way) off axis whereas the two-axis tilting screen is close to being on the optical axis even when tilted. However, I think the two-axis screen would make the camera thicker and more expensive, and selfie shooters wouldn't be happy.

And that of the A7RV even more so. I'd pay any premium in weight and cost quite happily though the actual screen is not a dealbreaker for me and the size & res is good.

 

1 hour ago, Ilkka Nissila said:

There is in my opinion space for the higher quality Zf sensor for those who don't need the faster sensor read time and prefer the higher quality image

I could make a case for that and if there is ever going to be a Z7III, I could see that becoming a reality.

1 hour ago, Ilkka Nissila said:

Anyway my main complaints about the Zf

I don't have any other than I wish it was a bit smaller and as above, would prefer a more sophisticated rear screen, otherwise no issues.

Right, off to check out skinning options 🤗

[MrSMW]

It's available for Nikon Zf, but dare I...