$2300 Leica SL2 for hybrid work, pros and cons

[Andrew Reid]

Just some impressions...

Second time out with an SL2, last time was in early 2020. Terrible things followed. Let's hope I haven't just cursed myself with the second coming 🙂

So it has had a lot of firmware updates, but some things remain the same... The 5K open gate mode has some mojo, like the camera it was based on (Panasonic S1R)

Take a look at this footage early in the video of his family...if you didn't know you'd think that was actually a reel of film.

I know he's done quite a bit to it in post but still... That is crazy filmic.

Second thing which sold me on it was the price...

I think 2300 euros is fair. In today's market we can get 8K and 4K/120p for this with the second hand EOS R5 bless his overheating heart.

So this is 4K/60p full frame 10bit LOG H.265, 5K open gate, 1080p goes up to 180fps... And best of all it isn't a fucking Canon.

The second hand market with these sorts of prices has to make you think twice about buying new stuff especially if it is $3-6k doesn't it?

The UHD 4K is pixel binned in 24p and 60p, there is a very small 1.1x crop of sides, it does however look very clean and detailed, you'll only notice a difference to oversampled 4K from 6K on a test chart really. DCI 4K mode there is no crop, goes edge to edge of full sensor width.

The in-camera LUT view assist works well, and has a few built in pre-sets as well from Leica like Classic and Natural. There are 3 slots for your own .cube files. You cannot bake a LUT into the recording, it's only for display.

In stills mode autofocus is very very fast when it works, just not as reliable as phase-detect obviously, and in video mode it is neither fast or reliable 🙂

EVF is immense.

Entering video mode is a single button tap. Like Samsung NX1. A great and minimal way to quickly toggle between photos and videos.

It has USB charging, full size HDMI, dual card slots

Now the not so great stuff...

A tad on the heavy side, but not as chonky as S1H.

No articulated screen... The main downside where video is concerned.

No phase-detect.

Could benefit from a few more function buttons.

5K Open gate is a Super 35mm crop

L-mount lacks a few exotic adapters like the Techart Leica M Autofocus beasty which I have for Sony

But biggest downside is the dilemma of choice at $2000... the market is ridiculous. So much going on now at this price region...

There is the Nikon Z6 III which obviously has better specs where video is concerned, the only question is whether you need the higher numbers or not. The EOS R5 is also better specced for used price of $2000-25000... Fuji GFX 100S can be had also for around $2.7k now if you want 2019's $10k medium format camera in a smaller, more compact form. Absolute steal. And of course the Nikon Zf will do a lot of things right for a lot of folk. Panasonic S5 II / S9 as well.

None of them have quite the same magic feel when shooting though as the SL2

[MrSMW]

Compared with the S1R, badge aside?

[Andrew Reid]

In-camera LUTs

Better menus

Better EVF

Colour science is different

Erm, that's about it? 🙂

[MrSMW]

But it's ridiculous just how cheap S1Rs are now.

[Chrille]

The Leica then had Problems with lenses from other manufacturers, doesn't it?

[Ninpo33]

On 12/10/2024 at 12:35 AM, Andrew Reid said:

In-camera LUTs

Better menus

Better EVF

Colour science is different

Erm, that's about it? 🙂

Leica has a LOG profile but no LOG in S1R though right? Just HLG.

I won an eBay auction for a real deal on an S1R a couple weeks ago but it ended up being a scam unfortunately. Had to fight to get my money back but luckily it all worked out finally. Now I’m looking at the SL2 as an option but on the fence if it’s worth double the price of the S1R. 

[MrSMW]

29 minutes ago, Ninpo33 said:

Now I’m looking at the SL2 as an option but on the fence if it’s worth double the price of the S1R

Unless you MUST have log and prize the badge high enough, IMO, nope.

The question is why is the S1R not worth as much as the SL2?!

[Ninpo33]

4 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

Unless you MUST have log and prize the badge high enough, IMO, nope.

The question is why is the S1R not worth as much as the SL2?!

My two arguments for the SL2 are LOG and yes, the badge. I’m a very practical person and pretty cheap when it comes to gear so the “Leica tax” has always kept me away. But with the SL2 I’m at a place in my life/career where the extra money feels well spent. The S1R is trending at $1,300 USD and the SL2 is at $2,300 or so give or take. For that extra $1000 I feel like I could splurge and get the Leica and be ok with it. Considering the huge savings from new and the added LOG profile it would make sense for part of that extra money to me. Secondly, if you made it “a thing” and clients notice the Leica badge you could actually give your business a slight edge in prestige and use that to your advantage. I know it’s a Panasonic with some slight tweaks but most people simply know the brand name. At the same time the Sony A7CR is the same price right now on the used market and that’s a hell of a lot of camera for $2,300. @Andrew Reid is correct in that we are spoiled in 2025 with a lot of options sub $2k. 
 

 

[Andrew Reid]

1 hour ago, Ninpo33 said:

Leica has a LOG profile but no LOG in S1R though right? Just HLG.

Ah yes you're right, and SL2-S does a RAW video output over HDMI.

SL2 and SL2-S biggest downsides are the weight, and lack of articulated screen.

And some might say that L-mount lacks the range of stuff you can put on a Sony.

But I think for $2.3k either the SL2 or SL2-S are great options for hybrid shooting, but very different to something like an EOS R5 C as well, which makes life easier for video shooting professionally. Whereas the Leicas are nicer as personal cameras.

[Django]

Leica color science for stills is probably my favourite so that alone could entice me towards an SL2.

The 10-bit 5K open gate with log is also really interesting even if its a s35 crop.

Poor AF compared to Sony, Canon, Nikon is probably the biggest drawback but I'd probably use my Leica M glass.

Build quality I'm sure is top notch and yeah the Leica badge always brings a certain prestige although sometimes unwanted attention. I have a blacked out M9P and SL2 with its huge "LEICA" logo is a little too much for my taste. I guess that's where an S1R would make better sense.

In the end, for me this would probably be more indeed a personal passion project, artistic, travel cam. Definitely usable for pro applications but more for niche projects..

[eatstoomuchjam]

Keep in mind, in terms of "prestige" with clients, Leica don't seem to be super famous among the general non-camera nerd population.  I'm sure it varies by market, but I can say that on a number of the shoots that I go on, when I take out my Leica M glass and say things like "we're going to shoot with Leica glass," people are often like "Oh, that's nice."  On the other hand, I take out the CN-E and people are like "Ohhh, those are really nice lenses!"  Which, they are, but could also be described as the same optics as equivalent still lenses, but with focus rings and maybe different coatings.  Take out the GFX 100 II?  "Oh, I thought you'd use full frame, not APS-C." "Uh, this is medium format, bigger than full frame." "Hmm. OK."  Take out the Komodo (which is S35)?  "Whoa! Is that a Red?"

Anyway. At least for a video shoot, if you want to impress a normie, you probably want to break out Red or Arri - with honorable mention for Sony...  and within the Sony ecosystem, they are almost equally unlikely to be aware of the difference between, for instance, FX6 and Burano.

 

[MrSMW]

6 hours ago, Ninpo33 said:

My two arguments for the SL2 are LOG and yes, the badge

I get that and respect that. I'd very much like to try a Leica (a proper one, had a cropped sensor one) and a Hasselblad.

If I had the finances, I would love to own and shoot stills with an X2D, but the cost is WAAAAAY beyond anything I could justify.

Slightly more real world and would fit very well into my specific needs, a pairing of an SL3 (with something wide and something long I could bounce between) matched with a Q3-43 for everything in-between. But again, cashidos.

Why?

The build, the prestige etc, - more for me personally than rather what any kudos I might get from others.

I have come very close on the SL2 several times, but what swung it for me with the S1R, was tilt screen. Plus it did not have the list of niggles that the Leica seemed to come with.

I even had a crazy plan recently to combine an SL3 with an SL2-S and a Q3-43 and think this would probably be my current ultimate working scenario for my hybrid needs...but cost kills it!! And Mrs SMW would kill me.

[Django]

2 hours ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

Keep in mind, in terms of "prestige" with clients, Leica don't seem to be super famous among the general non-camera nerd population.  I'm sure it varies by market, but I can say that on a number of the shoots that I go on, when I take out my Leica M glass and say things like "we're going to shoot with Leica glass," people are often like "Oh, that's nice."  On the other hand, I take out the CN-E and people are like "Ohhh, those are really nice lenses!"  Which, they are, but could also be described as the same optics as equivalent still lenses, but with focus rings and maybe different coatings.  Take out the GFX 100 II?  "Oh, I thought you'd use full frame, not APS-C." "Uh, this is medium format, bigger than full frame." "Hmm. OK."  Take out the Komodo (which is S35)?  "Whoa! Is that a Red?"

Anyway. At least for a video shoot, if you want to impress a normie, you probably want to break out Red or Arri - with honorable mention for Sony...  and within the Sony ecosystem, they are almost equally unlikely to be aware of the difference between, for instance, FX6 and Burano.

 

Oh I agree, I was thinking more about the photography world. Also depends on the scene, here in the EU Leica is pretty well known, especially in the art/music scene. That's where I mainly see Fujis & Leicas. Art galleries, concert halls, red carpet events etc. It's why I said its niche! But beyond the prestige/hype I really do like Leica products and color science.

I only shot video on a Q2 and it was pretty great to be honest. The real time punch in crop modes especially. That's another premium camera that is slowly becoming accessible as it goes under the 3K bar. 

For pure video work, the FX line is everywhere around me. Will probably upgrade my FS7 soon to an FX something just because it gets you work. It's rather annoying because Sony is my least favourite brand and I find them trailing behind as a result of being number one (a bit like Canon back in the day) but so it is. 

Would love a RED and the Komodo is pretty cheap as well but would have to get into more high-end commercial stuff to really justify it. I'm more into events and run & gun situations. 

[Ninpo33]

18 hours ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

Keep in mind, in terms of "prestige" with clients, Leica don't seem to be super famous among the general non-camera nerd population.  I'm sure it varies by market, but I can say that on a number of the shoots that I go on, when I take out my Leica M glass and say things like "we're going to shoot with Leica glass," people are often like "Oh, that's nice." 

Yeah, as you mention it varies by market. I’m not talking about narrative or doc work where clients have a say or are on set and I’m hoping to impress someone. I’m talking about lifestyle stuff where I’m shooting for brands or maybe short docs again, for a brand or artist or music label  company etc… Those people all know and appreciate Leica and Hasselblad and it’s a cultural vibe. Also, these days everything is so heavy on the cross promotion and social media content that sometime the BTS videos get even more views than the original produced piece. What you’re shooting on and how you’re shooting it can be as interesting to people as much or more than the ad or commercial. It’s a strange world. So in those cases, yes it very much matters and is something people take note of and appreciate. 
 

Back when I was shooting 5k anamorphic on the GH4 people would flip out on the footage and say how amazing it looked and think it was an Alexa. But on set everyone thought I didn’t know what I was doing with my strange little LUMIX rig. Meanwhile the director is using my C - Cam footage over the A - cam so much that the DP/camera op started to get pissed. 

[Andrew Reid]

4 hours ago, Ninpo33 said:

Back when I was shooting 5k anamorphic on the GH4 people would flip out on the footage and say how amazing it looked and think it was an Alexa. But on set everyone thought I didn’t know what I was doing with my strange little LUMIX rig. Meanwhile the director is using my C - Cam footage over the A - cam so much that the DP/camera op started to get pissed. 

Haa that's hilarious.

Just the way it should be - Creativity always wins over prejudice and appearances.

I've been thinking that actually the vanity of Leica holds them back as a business. It prevents a more modern evolution of the M series with autofocus, for example. It prevents them utilising the brand in a broader price bracket... i.e. competing with Sony, Panasonic, Canon and the rest of them at all sub $3000 for brand new mirrorless cameras and lenses.

And that is a huge market they are missing out on... all under the pretence of 'protecting the brand'

[Ninpo33]

7 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

I've been thinking that actually the vanity of Leica holds them back as a business. It prevents a more modern evolution of the M series with autofocus, for example. It prevents them utilising the brand in a broader price bracket... i.e. competing with Sony, Panasonic, Canon and the rest of them at all sub $3000 for brand new mirrorless cameras and lenses.

And that is a huge market they are missing out on... all under the pretence of 'protecting the brand'

Absolutely. Agree 100%.
 

I guess they’ve made a choice to be the “Porsche” of the camera world and appeal to the high end market only. Leica has the heritage, history and craftsmanship but so much has changed in the camera space over the years.
 

What I would have liked to have seen over the years with the Panasonic partnership is for the Leica models to have really been the best of everything on offer. LUMIX could have been the workhorse models with a decent flagship but the SL series should have had all the best features with the kinks worked out. The SL2-S should have been the S1H but with even more if possible. 4k 60p uncropped or whatever could have given it a slight edge at the time. As it is, the SL2 has a lot of issues which @Andrew Reidhas tirelessly researched and pointed out and the SL2-S can’t even output the raw signal without a Super 35 crop. So it’s actually gimped compared to the S1H but Leica fanbois still picked it over the S1H. The S1R was like the red headed stepchild everyone forgot about up in the attic but hopefully will find some new life now that prices have reached bargain basement levels. 

[Andrew Reid]

Leica should have been bought out. It would have benefited them a lot to have the investment. Panasonic should have dived in and bought them outright, worth it for the brand alone. Then, carefully, they should have retired the Lumix brand and gone full on Leica. Their high-end cameras would now have much greater appeal and branding sexiness, and their lower-end cameras would be like mini Leica Ms in terms of looks, but Fuji X100 VI in terms of price and specs.

Yes, you do have to be careful when coming out with less than high-end stuff with a Leica badge.

But nobody seems to have told Leica that.

At the end of the day I think there's a lot of brain rot at these companies.

Nobody is prepared to implement a clear vision or strategy, it's all done by committee so nobody has to take the blame if it doesn't work.

Look at Olympus. What a great brand flushed down the toilet that was.

[eatstoomuchjam]

Should Leica have done anything at all?

https://petapixel.com/2022/07/08/2021-was-leicas-best-financial-year-ever/

Last year, they had almost a half billion dollars in revenue and increased their profits by 16% over the year before.  Seems like they're going the opposite direction from Olympus.  Operating a high-profit luxury brand seems to be working about as well for Leica as it has for the last 70+ years.  If inflation gets too bad or the economy crashes, though, so that people have less money to spend on high-end gear, my guess is that's what would inspire a fire sale for the brand.

[MrSMW]

Leica exist in their own bubble.

They are an odd one in that along with Hasselblad, they are priced above most ordinary folks means. Or you have to be otherwise extremely keen.

But they also put their name to cheap rebranded lower end stuff.

I think they are one of those companies like Porsche that are better off not trying to compete at the mid or lower levels and instead, remain in their niche.

Lumix I am adamant though has mostly been a case of poor marketing.

They seem to be one of those companies who score hits from time to time and then never capitalise on it.

When the GH4 came out, my brother was the video side of my business and we were all over that marvel, but then years until the GH5 and it’s minor updates.

S5 came out and other than the lack of PDAF, a great bit of kit, but no real fanfare.

The S1 trilogy were and still are, great bits of kit, but to most, they went a bit too large on the bodies, but to have zero official sign from them of any follow up is IMO, just insane. If something is coming. If not, probably understandable and their goose is cooked.

This next announcement really is the final straw for me with them…

If there is no official announcement of something relatively substantial such as a new S camera, then they are not a company I can have any further faith or investment in.

I run a business. I have business needs. I have zero interest in partnering with lame ducks.

The bottom line for me is other than the S5ii, they do not have the tools I want and need for 2025 and going forward.

Loved my S1H and for its time, it was great, but was always a compromise for my needs. Even more so now to the point where I would deliberately be making a conscious choice of compromise if I chose to work with it today.

S1R delivered great results for stills and is borderline arguable something I could still make work. And they are stupidly cheap now.

But I would like a system that can do it all and the reality is no one quite does for my specific needs.

It’s between Sony, Nikon and Lumix for different reasons but not a single one of them meets my needs.

Very happy with the tools I have, but those tools are 1x Sony, 1x Nikon and 1x Lumix and whoever gets their first with the system that does it all within one brand, will get my loyalty and therefore, my $£€.

 

[MrSMW]

13 hours ago, MrSMW said:

It’s between Sony, Nikon and Lumix for different reasons but not a single one of them meets my needs.

To quantify, I mean ALL my needs within a single brand, ie, they cover my needs between them, but I’d rather have it all within one system.