Administrators Andrew Reid Posted December 10 Administrators Share Posted December 10 So the R5 is now $2.3k second hand and Z6 Mark III is $2.2k brand new (at least here in Berlin at the local shop). Now I am thinking the R5 is best for full frame 4K/120p but the Z6 Mark III might actually have some advantages of its own... The 6K RAW is 60p, whereas for 8K/60p you need the EOS R5 C and not the original R5. With Z-mount there is the Techart autofocus adapter for Leica M mount lenses and adapters, so that's a big plus for photography especially as I dislike the price, character and size of most modern native Zf lenses and Canon Rf lenses. Video autofocus and IBIS on the Z6 Mark III are improved vs the EOS R5. The Z8 is 3800 euros in comparison... Z6 III has big price advantage and also the small advantage (in my humble view) of a mechanical shutter + a slight edge in low light performance due to the lower resolution sensor. Moving parts lends an operational heft - although on Z8 you will never worry about a high shutter count tanking value or reliability of the camera. Call me old fashioned but in this solid state era I still like my mechanical mechanisms in cameras though. The 4K/120p is 1.5x DX crop but to be honest I am fine with that... This is an improvement on the already very capable Fuji X-H2 which crops a further 1.28x from 1.5x in 4K 120fps. It's also an improvement on the 2x crop G9 II and GH7 which are both very nice for slow-mo as well. Sure, they forgot to add a soul or retro appeal and it has put on some weight, the tubby little fucker. But I am starting to see the sense in it. Next camera coming up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSMW Posted December 10 Share Posted December 10 I would pick the Z6III for most of those reasons also, but especially because with the adapter, it opens up the entire E Mount line, whether that be Sony's own lenses including the new 28-70mm f2, or the entire Sigma and Tamron series. Canon, you just get Canon. Everything lens-wise, bigger, heavier, more expensive. And potential fire-fighting duties. R6III vs Z6III makes more sense from just the body perspective? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Andrew Reid Posted December 10 Author Administrators Share Posted December 10 Sigma 35mm F2 E-mount on Nikon Z6 III would be a nice combo. The Sigma adds a bit of charm and build quality to the front of the camera for a start. Lenses on Canon RF are a bit of a disaster... Manual stuff doesn't work well with IBIS, and there's no Sigma and fewer interesting adapters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eatstoomuchjam Posted December 10 Share Posted December 10 5 hours ago, Andrew Reid said: With Z-mount there is the Techart autofocus adapter for Leica M mount lenses and adapters, so that's a big plus One should only buy a camera based on current features/accessories instead of on potential future stuff, but hopefully Megadap's announcement of an M to RF adapter with autofocus actually goes somewhere. My Leicas look beautiful on the R5. But then, they look beautiful on everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Andrew Reid Posted December 10 Author Administrators Share Posted December 10 Now leaning towards EOS R5 having tried it next to a Z6 III. It’s more comfortable and premium feeling, and the spec is better, and the price is the same (used) Might be time to forgive the overheating little cretin camera. The IBIS is quite weak with adapted non-Canon lenses but things improve a lot when you enable DIS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Members BTM_Pix Posted December 10 Super Members Share Posted December 10 I can't keep up with the different camera every day but I'm proud of you for just leaning into the addiction 😉 Have you got some sort of camera advent calendar situation going on with Foto Meyer ? Andrew Reid 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSMW Posted December 10 Share Posted December 10 4 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said: Have you got some sort of camera advent calendar situation going on On the first day (not) of Christmas, my dealer sold to me, a Leica SL3. (OK, an SL2) On the second day (not) of Christmas, my dealer sold to me, a Canon R3. (OK, an R5) On the third day (not) of Christmas, my dealer sold to me, a Nikon Z6III. (OK, a Canon R5) ArashM and Walter H 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Andrew Reid Posted December 10 Author Administrators Share Posted December 10 35 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said: I can't keep up with the different camera every day but I'm proud of you for just leaning into the addiction 😉 Have you got some sort of camera advent calendar situation going on with Foto Meyer ? I opened the 10th door today and there was an arrogant Leica twat behind it. Hopefully 11th door has something chocolatey By the 24th might even have a Pentax. But it's looking most likely that it will be a Canon EOS R5, a camera I have never had a bad word about and love unconditionally. Turns out that Canon shitting themselves over bad PR has produced more firmware updates than Sony have done in 10 years! Halve the price and fast forward 4 years, oddly camera technology hasn't gone anywhere else since it came out. It's basically Z8 spec. I need to sell my EOS R7 so it'll make a nice upgrade to that. You also get a free one of these with every purchase... BTM_Pix and eatstoomuchjam 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Members BTM_Pix Posted December 10 Super Members Share Posted December 10 50 minutes ago, MrSMW said: On the first day (not) of Christmas, my dealer sold to me, a Leica SL3. (OK, an SL2) On the second day (not) of Christmas, my dealer sold to me, a Canon R3. (OK, an R5) On the third day (not) of Christmas, my dealer sold to me, a Nikon Z6III. (OK, a Canon R5) And a parfocal zoom from Arri Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSMW Posted December 10 Share Posted December 10 1 hour ago, Andrew Reid said: But it's looking most likely that it will be a Canon EOS R5, a camera I have never had a bad word about and love unconditionally. 🤣 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eatstoomuchjam Posted December 10 Share Posted December 10 1 hour ago, Andrew Reid said: Turns out that Canon shitting themselves over bad PR has produced more firmware updates than Sony have done in 10 years! Halve the price and fast forward 4 years, oddly camera technology hasn't gone anywhere else since it came out. It's basically Z8 spec. I bought my R5 shortly after Canon sorted out a bunch of the stupid overheating crap (like using a temperature sensor instead of a timer to determine when I could shoot again). At least for the sort of shooting that i do - either intermittent 1-2 minute tourist clips - or on set, overheating has never been any sort of problem when doing raw lite at 8k. I think I've only seen any sort of warning once or twice. It's too bad Canon shit the bed so hard during the initial release. It gave a bad reputation to an otherwise extremely usable and reliable camera with great image quality. My only complaints are that DR could be a bit better and that the IBIS could be described as "barely better than no IBIS." It's my go-to camera for traveling very light and/or incognito shooting. And yes, it says a lot that after 4 years, they released a follow-up that leaves me feeling no compulsion to upgrade and every time I think "Hey, maybe I should see what small cameras are out there, maybe swap out the Canon," I come away from my search thinking "Dang, that Canon ain't half bad." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FHDcrew Posted December 10 Share Posted December 10 I fell in love with the R5 as I got to film multiple recap videos with it. I will be honest, DIS is incredible and supercharged the IBIS. I can use an adapted EF 16-35 L or 24-70 L and consistently achieve stable tracking shots once I add warp stabilizer. IBIS + DIS in this camera is that good. And @Andrew Reid I agree the ergonomics are great. Not insane for video assists but it has zebras and a solid view assist which I find helpful. It’s on my radar as a potential upgrade but the z6 iii looks awesome and would make it easy to keep my original Z6 as a b-cam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Andrew Reid Posted December 11 Author Administrators Share Posted December 11 12 hours ago, eatstoomuchjam said: It's too bad Canon shit the bed so hard during the initial release. It gave a bad reputation to an otherwise extremely usable and reliable camera with great image quality. My only complaints are that DR could be a bit better and that the IBIS could be described as "barely better than no IBIS." It's my go-to camera for traveling very light and/or incognito shooting. Yeah it was tough to finally come out of the daze of the Canon DSLR cripple hammer era into what you thought was a completely fresh start with amazing video capabilities, only to have Canon make it unusable for anything serious and with such a devious tactic as well. That said, they have recovered admirably and now that you don't have to part with $4500 for one, it makes a lot more sense. There are not any other 8K RAW full frame 4K 120fps cameras available for $2300 on the second hand market. The Nikon Z8 is too new and still $3500+, the Z9 is hovering around $4200 and the Sony a1 is still very much in demand around the same 4k mark... So the R5 having the advantage of being an old and common tool has depreciated very nicely. Now the R5 II is out the quantities of EOS R5 will flood onto the used market in even greater numbers and we could be seeing it going down to around $1500 in a years time. Agree with you about the IBIS, it's the one thing that lets it down but as the well respected EOS R5 C (C stands for non-cripple hammer edition) shows maybe it's possible to get by without it. The EOS R5 C drives the sensor at 8K 120fps by the way... The 4K/120p is oversampled! How Canon came up with this fast of a sensor when it isn't even a stacked design blows my mind. eatstoomuchjam 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSMW Posted December 11 Share Posted December 11 I think the bottom line is we still do not have a single brand that can deliver in full and instead, pros and cons to every set up. Well for my needs anyway... For video, I can't see past the S5II. There isn't anything it does not do that I need or want. I would rather it had a better quality/higher res rear screen as I think they skimped there and as someone who does not use an external monitor or the EVF, rear LCD quality is important to me. Closest alternative = Nikon Z6III...except it only writes to one card slot for video, so no backup, which itself/on it's own, is not the deal-breaker, but the fact that you cannot burn a LUT into the footage is. If I could burn in the RED Film Bias LUT, job done and done deal, the Z6III would become my primary video unit. For stills, Sony A7RV. Medium format cameras, with their lenses, are just a leetle bit too big for my tastes. Z8 comes closest, but it does not have the lenses without adapting and with that, comes issues. If Nikon was open to Sigma lenses, it would be a done deal there also and I'd be at peak camera for my needs with that combo. Secondary stills plus hybrid = Zf. If I had the brass, it would be Leica Q3 43mm, despite their shit customer service, lack of chairs and dry cake. It ticks every box for me in that regard except one and that is purchase price. Even at €3k, I'd struggle, but it's twice that, so my Zf is my 'Poor Man's Leica Q3'. And I have looked at every bit of kit out there, at least on paper and in reviews and there just isn't a single brand that ticks every box and I just find that odd. Why can we only burn a LUT into Lumix (and I think Fuji)? Why are your rear LCD's so shit Sony, unless A7RV and above? Why can we only write video to a single card slot Nikon. Why Canon is everything so big, heavy and expensive...except your R3 which is very light for what it is? Why are your cakes so dry Leica you fucktards? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leon Postma Posted December 11 Share Posted December 11 42 minutes ago, MrSMW said: Why are your cakes so dry Leica you fucktards? Panasonic HQ: “Pfew. Finally we’re off the hook, it’s full on Leica bashing now !” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSMW Posted December 11 Share Posted December 11 44 minutes ago, Leon Postma said: Panasonic HQ: “Pfew. Finally we’re off the hook, it’s full on Leica bashing now !” If they are serving dry cakes, they deserve it! Leon Postma 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Django Posted December 11 Share Posted December 11 1 hour ago, MrSMW said: Why can we only burn a LUT into Lumix (and I think Fuji)? Custom LUTs are available on Canon R5C, R5ii.. Sony FX3, FX30, ZVE1. Nikon need this ASAP. An upcoming Z9 firmware leak did confirm shutter angle was coming so there is hope, especially with the new RED LUTs recently released. 1 hour ago, MrSMW said: Why Canon is everything so big, heavy and expensive...except your R3 which is very light for what it is? Not sure what you mean by this, R5/R5ii is slightly smaller and lighter than Z6iii and tons more than Z8. and yes R3 < Z9. Nikon takes the lead on big & heavy bodies. Personally I don't see this as a negative, but I like a little weight and heft on my bodies, especially while balancing zooms or DSLR lenses. Sony is of course most compact FF system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSMW Posted December 11 Share Posted December 11 53 minutes ago, Django said: Nikon need this ASAP. An upcoming Z9 firmware leak did confirm shutter angle was coming so there is hope, especially with the new RED LUTs recently released. I hope so as it's one of the current blockers to me going back fully to Nikon. 54 minutes ago, Django said: Not sure what you mean by this, R5/R5ii is slightly smaller and lighter than Z6iii and tons more than Z8. and yes R3 < Z9. Lenses that I am or was interested in such as: Canon RF 28-105mm f2.8 vs Sigma 28-105mm f2.8 = 1330g vs 995g plus the Sigma costing approx 50% less. Canon RF 28-70mm f2 vs Sony 28-70mm f2 = 1430g vs 918g, though the Canon can be had for slightly less cost than the new Sony. Latest Sigma 24-70 f2.8 approx 150g lighter than the Canon RF equivalent and 50% of the price. R3 though is considerably less than the Z9 in weight, but that is because it only has half the megapixels and those things are heavy 😉 1 hour ago, Django said: Sony is of course most compact FF system Sure is and is exactly why I went with them for stills. But Nikon are almost back for me and if they can get a couple more things right, I'm pretty sure I will be back with them for everything (at least bodies anyway with Z8, Z6III and Zf) some time soon... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Andrew Reid Posted December 11 Author Administrators Share Posted December 11 3 hours ago, MrSMW said: Why can we only burn a LUT into Lumix (and I think Fuji)? Which Fuji does that? Is it that newfangled X-M5? 3 hours ago, MrSMW said: Why are your rear LCD's so shit Sony, unless A7RV and above? It's odd isn't it? Sony are one of the biggest manufacturer of LCDs so they only have to buy their own fucking screens! 3 hours ago, MrSMW said: Why can we only write video to a single card slot Nikon. Why Canon is everything so big, heavy and expensive...except your R3 which is very light for what it is? Why are your cakes so dry Leica you fucktards? The cakes dry up as they are stood for ages in a very dry air conditioned room... Exactly like their customers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSMW Posted December 11 Share Posted December 11 43 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said: Which Fuji does that? Is it that newfangled X-M5? I don't know and maybe I am wrong and you can't? 44 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said: It's odd isn't it? Sony are one of the biggest manufacturer of LCDs so they only have to buy their own fucking screens! I was looking at a pair of A7CR's instead of my sole A7RV and I could forgive the single card slot, but the rear screen, nah. 45 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said: The cakes dry up as they are stood for ages in a very dry air conditioned room... It's a ploy to make you buy more drinks. Or maybe that is Wetherspoons... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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