Weighing the pros and cons EOS R5 vs R5 C - I think I am going for basic bitch R5

[Andrew Reid]

EOS R5 pros:

• Battery takes less of a hammering in video mode
• Better AF in video mode
• Choice of pixel binning mode available in 4K (more power and heat economical in this mode vs HQ)
• Cheaper second hand by about 800 euros
• Thinner, no fan or vent
• IBIS
• More commonly available so easier to find
• All the same image quality basically as the Cinema EOS version
• Lots of firmware updates
• Overheating no longer a big thing (and was partially fake to begin with - thanks Canon!)
• You can still use digital IS + Optical IS + at same time turn off IBIS to help with warping (I think)

EOS R5-C Pros:

• Looks sexier
• 8K goes up to 60p RAW with new battery
• Digital IS + Optical IS avoids warping effect of IBIS
• Longer continuous run times in top quality modes for interviews, events, etc.
• 4K/120p is a bit less noisy (I thought the 4K/120p was oversampled from 8K but appears it is same pixel binned quality as basic bitch R5)
• Sensor & processor runs cooler
• Lots of fancy video features that I never use
• Video menus
• Wider range of codec options
• Proper slow & quick modes

EOS R5-C however has some cons:

• The delay in switching modes, even though it's been reduced
• Missing IBIS is a downer, especially not good for stills shooting
• I don't have much need for the extra fancy pro video features like waveform, etc. I prefer to look at what I'm shooting and not have so much crap on the display
• I don't need 8K/60p
• The battery doesn't last in video mode on the EOS R5 C, ideally needs external power solution and heavier rig

So basic bitch R5 it is?

[Ty Harper]

40 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

The battery doesn't last in video mode on the EOS R5 C, ideally needs external power solution and heavier rig

With the LP-E6P batteries you now get 1hr 30 mins with one batt and 3 hours with the grip. Obvi not the best out there, but unless you need more than three hours, you no longer need external power solutions and rigging heavier than adding a grip. That said the R5 continues to be a great option and as someone with two R5Cs, I am seriously considering purchasing the R5 a second time as my C/travel cam, for some of the reasons you pointed out - not to mention that used prices on the R5 are approaching used R6 MKII prices.

[Django]

2 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

4K/120p is a bit less noisy (I thought the 4K/120p was oversampled from 8K but appears it is same pixel binned quality as basic bitch R5)

4K60p is what is downsampled on the R5C versus pixel binned on the R5/R5ii. 

That alongside better codecs, shutter angle, loading LUTs, and the fan is what tilts me in R5C's favour.

If it had IBIS it would be perfect but that's a big downer on a 3K euros hybrid cam. I mostly shoot prime lenses with no OIS too.

And yes generally speaking the R5's IQ is very similar if not identical and it has a few other advantages such as the C1/C2/C3 custom shooting video banks and all the photo AF options and performances available for video AF. Those are missing on the R5C video side. So yeah in some ways R5 has more to offer for less. Great bang for buck.

[Davide DB]

4 minutes ago, Django said:

That alongside better codecs, shutter angle, loading LUTs, and the fan is what tilts me in R5C's favour.

Does it mean that on R5 bitch while shooting in Log I cannot have a simple REC709 LUT on the display? I need an external monitor with a LUT loaded? 😕

 

[Django]

21 minutes ago, Davide DB said:

Does it mean that on R5 bitch while shooting in Log I cannot have a simple REC709 LUT on the display? I need an external monitor with a LUT loaded? 😕

 

No it has that via "view assist" option. Only during shooting though, not playback. What I meant though is that unlike R5C, you can't load custom LUTs and view/bake them in the file like on most cine cams.

[mercer]

Doesn't the R5C also have a s16 crop at 2.7K? If my memory is correct, that could be an excellent option for your s16 lenses @Andrew Reid

[Andrew Reid]

What are these on the EOS R5 C... Camera profile files, or can you load custom picture profiles like custom LOG curves?

Looks groovy.

[mercer]

7 minutes ago, mercer said:

Doesn't the R5C also have a s16 crop at 2.7K? If my memory is correct, that could be an excellent option for your s16 lenses @Andrew Reid

Edit: it's actually 3K raw, not 2.7K with a 2.75x crop.

[Andrew Reid]

Basic bitch in the house.

The price was 2300 euros / £1999.

I like to think of it as £1999 as that sounds better.

The store in Berlin also had the Z6 III but I preferred the R5 as it's still a higher-end camera, plus the Z6 III has a few iffy and ugly attributes on the body where cost cutting is evident.

The picture in 4K is so similar nowadays between cameras, so it comes down more to feel and ergonomics, and what exotic features get thrown into the mix. How good is the EVF, the screen, build quality, grip, styling, soul, autofocus and so on? Well on the EOS R5 it certainly feels like you're at the BMW end of things rather than Renault.

Not that I've anything against the French. 

By the way the IBIS with manual focus lens adapters appears to be improved in firmware version 2.0 if you have DIS enabled as well.

Better than I remember it on the EOS R3 anyway.

The EOS R5 C was definitely tempting and may yet appear behind an advent calendar door before Christmas. Problem is it is 2900 euros, and that's cheapest I can find it in Berlin anyway. So whilst still a bargain, the basic bitch R5 is a sweeter deal.

It's also an excellent hand warmer.

[Andrew Reid]

3 minutes ago, mercer said:

Edit: it's actually 3K raw, not 2.7K with a 2.75x crop.

That is indeed a handy feature.

C-mount to RF adapters seem hard to come by. Is the flange back distance too long?

The 25mm and longer c-mount lenses are happy on 2x crop Micro Four Thirds.

You can record 4K in 2x crop on the EOS R5 basic bitch edition with a few tricks I think.

First enable 1.6x crop APS-C mode of course which gets you close. Then do the additional crop from DIS in enhanced mode.

The 4K image will be softer upscaled from 3k (maybe a bit less?) but should still be nice.

Is there no Clear Image zoom on these cameras like there is for Sony?

[Andrew Reid]

Ah so it has a "Movie Cropping" feature in the menu which seems to do a hefty crop in the 2x to 2.7x region

So Super 16mm made it to the basic bitch cripple hammer edition after all

[mercer]

I have access to an R7, so one of the first things I bought was a c-mount adapter from Amazon. It's a Rainbow Imaging one (unsure if they're available in the UK) but what surprised me was how wide it is. Lenses that required mods to work with m4/3, screwed right on with room to spare. I have been opposed to the RF mount from the beginning, but that wider mount sure is handy in this instance.

Still haven't had a chance to test a lens with it yet, though. 

[mercer]

12 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

Ah so it has a "Movie Cropping" feature in the menu which seems to do a hefty crop in the 2x to 2.7x region

So Super 16mm made it to the basic bitch cripple hammer edition after all

Does that require the use of dis? Or will the dis add even more? 2.7x crop should get you damn close to a Kern 10mm. And if you still have the Canon 13mm, that should shine on it.

[Andrew Reid]

It does not need the use of DIS. It just bangs in.

I also see that they have added ability to one-touch toggle between stills and video mode on a function button like SL2.

That's much better than before where you had to hit Mode, then Info.

[Simon Young]

As a serious addict I’ve owned the R5 and the R5C several times and sold them several times. I do miss the R5C though, amazing camera, for me the lack of ibis is a positive and one touch white balance (which is surprisingly accurate, whereas a whole lot of digging through menus and taking a photo the archaic way with the R5 is frankly retarded) and the false colors are amazing and usable tools.

Other pros versus the R5 are of course the codecs and the constant downsampling, no matter if you’re shooting 4k or 1080p, s35 or full frame. My favourite mode was the s35 6k raw with manageable file sizes and very little rolling shutter, around 10ms. 
 

And whatever people say, the R5C has clearly more dynamic range than the R5, and it has colors more in line with the other cinema cameras. Oh, and the wide dr color profile is excellent for fast turnarounds.

[PannySVHS]

2.7K S16 mode on the Canon and more compatible Cmount adapters, that is tasty! But darn, just got a S1H last summer. Is that 2.7K Raw?

Does anyone know good Cmount adapters for L-mount? Mine does not allow infinity.

[Andrew Reid]

4 hours ago, PannySVHS said:

2.7K S16 mode on the Canon and more compatible Cmount adapters, that is tasty! But darn, just got a S1H last summer. Is that 2.7K Raw?

Does anyone know good Cmount adapters for L-mount? Mine does not allow infinity.

It is the Fotasy C-LL adapter I use...

Infinity focus is ok.

3.3K is the resolution at the crop required for Super 16mm on the Panasonic S9 and S5 II.

But you also need to enable IS + E stabilisation HIGH to get from 1.6x 3.3k to over 2x

This is to avoid a vignetting which moves about with IBIS.

And the image is 4:3, close to the 1.65:1 of an actual Super 16mm film camera, so you have to crop it in post if you want 16:9 and so on.

[PannySVHS]

How do you like the color from the S line? I remember you were pretty fond of it. @Andrew Reid I love the image when lit. Under natural light I find it a bit dull and requiring some dedicated grading efforts to exite me.