What is Lumix thinking?!

[MrSMW]

4 hours ago, ArashM said:

Personally for me, give me Full frame 4K 60p and I'm in, I preferred my S1H over the S5iiX that I use now!

I preferred the body/build of the S1H over my S5II. Easily.

All an S2H would need to be for me is FF 6k 60p version of the S5II internals and it’s a done deal for me.

If it wasn’t for the less than stellar AF, I’d still have my S1H.

8 hours ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

Doesn't the S5 II already have decent PDAF? 

Decent, but not Sony level stickiness, ie, could be better.

[John Matthews]

34 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

All an S2H would need to be for me is FF 6k 60p version of the S5II internals and it’s a done deal for me.

Same for me. I just want the GH6 tilt-up screen functionality.

34 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

Decent, but not Sony level stickiness, ie, could be better.

It's good enough though. Sony falters too sometimes. The best focus system for me is the one that gives the best manual focus aids without attaching a monitor.

[Ninpo33]

On 1/10/2025 at 10:07 AM, eatstoomuchjam said:

S1H II would involve actually doing some real work and if that's where they're going, I'd say it's pretty likely to be a combination of expensive and disappointing for people, mostly because the S5 II is really good.  What are they going to add to entice people away from it for another video-centric body?  Raw video?  12K?  Every one sold includes a golden ticket allowing the user a tour of the Lumix factory and a personal handshake from the CEO?

Well the rumors about the SL3-S are starting to heat up and there’s an event on 1/16/2024 that is supposed to offer the details. Maybe we will finally see the roadmap for Leica/Lumix unfolding. Or maybe just Leica? So far things sound underwhelming. 

 

https://leicarumors.com/2025/01/13/here-are-the-leica-sl3-s-camera-specifications.aspx/amp/

[MrSMW]

Leica will not announce a single thing relating to Lumix on any SL3s launch. Not even a sliver of a sausage.

They may make these cryptic LS3 announcements from time to time (not had one for a while I think?) but product or roadmap info? Ha, absolutely no chance!

Possibly a missed opportunity, each (not) leveraging each other for marketing purposes but otherwise all members of the L Mount Alliance are independent of each other and seem determined to remain that way.

[Andrew Reid]

Leica have to pretend that their cameras are Leica, not Lumix rebadges.

[eatstoomuchjam]

7 hours ago, Ninpo33 said:

Well the rumors about the SL3-S are starting to heat up and there’s an event on 1/16/2024 that is supposed to offer the details. Maybe we will finally see the roadmap for Leica/Lumix unfolding. Or maybe just Leica? So far things sound underwhelming. 

Interesting.  If the SL3-S uses a newer higher-end sensor than the S5 II, maybe the guts of it could be the foundation of an S1H II.  It'd have to be a hell of an upgrade, though, to stand out from the other cameras and their own camera that was released almost 2 years ago.

[MrSMW]

25 minutes ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

Interesting.  If the SL3-S uses a newer higher-end sensor than the S5 II, maybe the guts of it could be the foundation of an S1H II.  It'd have to be a hell of an upgrade, though, to stand out from the other cameras and their own camera that was released almost 2 years ago.

Do you mean a potential S1HII vs a S5II or SL3-S vs SL2-S?

Both are pretty niche aren't they as in 'we' may love the S1H but in terms of global sales next to the likes of the equivalent Sony & Canon options, it's not exactly been a massive seller.

Leica is just niche full stop and that is part of their thing, ie, being small (as a company), desirable and expensive whereas LUMIX can't play in that arena.

Same as Hassie. They can both play that heritage card even if one of them is owned by DJI.

Leica could get away with simply having the SL3 body and the tilt screen over the old SL2 body in order to create an SL3-S.

If LUMIX were simply to stick the internals of the S5II in the S1H body, they would be slaughtered.

Personally I think that would be a great camera and I'd have one over the S5II but the Armchair YouTube Authorities would destroy it. Other than a handful of LUMIX diehards.

Any S1H mk II HAS to be more. What the 'more' is, is the big question...

 

[MrSMW]

1 hour ago, Andrew Reid said:

Leica have to pretend that their cameras are Leica, not Lumix rebadges.

Exactly and whilst Leica have stuck their brand on LUMIX cameras before (point & shoots mainly), I can't see any scenario where Leica would allow LUMIX to rebrand one of their own bodies such as the SL3.

[eatstoomuchjam]

5 hours ago, MrSMW said:

Do you mean a potential S1HII vs a S5II or SL3-S vs SL2-S?

 

Sorry if I wasn't clear!  I meant that since there are rumors about Leica releasing an SL3-S (which would almost certainly have Panasonic guts, just as the SL3 does) and because there are rumors that Panasonic will be releasing two bodies soon (one of which will likely be the S1R II which puts SL3 guts in a Panasonic body), it's not out of the question that whatever is in the SL3-S will be in Panasonic's S1H II.

I'd say that Panasonic sales don't meaningfully compete with Leica sales - both are niche companies and Leica is much more the "luxury" brand.  However, if Panasonic release an S1H II, it will be competing with their own S5 II which is already really good (not to mention the original S1H which is also really good).  The S1H, when released, was like $4k.  At almost 2.5x the price of an S5 II and still more than 2x the price of the S5 IIx, an S1H II is going to have to be a hell of a camera to ship more than a few units (assuming the price stays similar).

[MrSMW]

1 hour ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

an S1H II is going to have to be a hell of a camera to ship more than a few units

I think it will need to be a hell of a camera simply to exist…which may explain why we have heard next to nothing about it. If one will ever exist…

I’m still not sure about the latter but think it more likely than not and if one ever does appear, probably last chance saloon for them at that level?

The ‘S2R’ seems far more likely doesn’t it and ‘should’ be a re-bodied SL3.

I have my fingers crossed for that for mid-Spring latest or it won’t work for me this year. Or possibly ever. (Pure business perspective).

For video I have needs and they are covered.

For photo I have both needs and wants and those are technically also already covered, but I want to have everything within one system ideally.

[Ninpo33]

On 1/13/2025 at 10:38 PM, MrSMW said:

Leica will not announce a single thing relating to Lumix on any SL3s launch. Not even a sliver of a sausage.

They may make these cryptic LS3 announcements from time to time (not had one for a while I think?) but product or roadmap info? Ha, absolutely no chance!

Possibly a missed opportunity, each (not) leveraging each other for marketing purposes but otherwise all members of the L Mount Alliance are independent of each other and seem determined to remain that way.

I think you misunderstood my post. I was saying that whatever the SL3-S ends up being at this weeks announcement could give us a clue of what to possibly expect out of the S1H2. Of course Leica isn’t going to mention LUMIX. Ever..

But the normal flow of product releases has been all messed up between the two companies so at this point, who knows…

[MrSMW]

8 hours ago, Ninpo33 said:

could give us a clue of what to possibly expect out of the S1H2

Ah gotcha.

8 hours ago, Ninpo33 said:

But the normal flow of product releases has been all messed up between the two companies so at this point, who knows…

They have had a few collabs and I really thought they were moving closer with the ‘LS3’, but if that isn’t still a thing, then it appears to have at least fizzled, another example of LUMIX’s shite marketing.

But yes, maybe this imminent announcement will reveal some hints as to what possibly could be, but until LUMIX start blowing their own trumpet…

 

[IronFilm]

On 1/14/2025 at 7:38 PM, MrSMW said:

Leica will not announce a single thing relating to Lumix on any SL3s launch. Not even a sliver of a sausage.

They will indeed say nothing about Panasonic. But we all know the SL3S is just going to be a rebadged Lumix camera. 

That it's relatively easy to reverse engineer the logic to conclude we'll probably see the Panasonic version of the SL3 released six-ish months later. 

[Davide DB]

17 hours ago, IronFilm said:

They will indeed say nothing about Panasonic. But we all know the SL3S is just going to be a rebadged Lumix camera. 

That it's relatively easy to reverse engineer the logic to conclude we'll probably see the Panasonic version of the SL3 released six-ish months later. 

 

This means that we will have a DOA camera with no possibility of sale.

A Leica SL* in 2024 has reason to exist only because of the logo's appeal to enthusiasts and fanatics around the world.

Panasonic has no chance. Sad but true.

 

[Marcio Kabke Pinheiro]

My 2 cents about Panasonic (which still is the more familiar brand to me - left m43 some years ago for Fuji, but when I got a FZ1000 used and saw the interface, just feels like HOME):

It's imaging division is on the guillotine for some time now - probably the bean counters are pushing it to divest, and only their history is holding it. It is not exclusive to Panasonic - every company that not have a camera division as its principal one could pull a Samsung anytime. Panasonic, Fujifilm, even Sony someday. I only see Canon and Nikon staying in cameras until the last breath.

In M43, it happens exactly what I tought when left the system - Panasonic and OM would turn it to a niche. Video for Panasonic (the G9 II was released because they had the body already developed for the S5II and the electronics developed for the GH7), wildlife for OM.

My bets are that 2025 it the testing year - if they don't get traction, will just dump a lot of people and mantain the minimum ones to keep releasing models for Leica. In the X100 craze, re-releasing the LX100 II as a Leica, for me, is a strong alert. Leica margins could keep the division alive as a OEM for Leica.

And L mount needs cheap and SMALL lenses. In a word - bring Viltrox to L-Mount. Panasonic releasing a 26mm f/8 manual lens with the S9 for $199 and Viltrox releasing a 28mm f/4.5 SMALLER and WITH AF for $99 was one of the most shameless moments of the year.

One last mystery: who makes the GH7 / G9 II 25mp sensor? OM needs it badly.

[John Matthews]

10 hours ago, Marcio Kabke Pinheiro said:

And L mount needs cheap and SMALL lenses. In a word - bring Viltrox to L-Mount. Panasonic releasing a 26mm f/8 manual lens with the S9 for $199 and Viltrox releasing a 28mm f/4.5 SMALLER and WITH AF for $99 was one of the most shameless moments of the year.

Definitely. 2 pancakes could save the S9.

10 hours ago, Marcio Kabke Pinheiro said:

One last mystery: who makes the GH7 / G9 II 25mp sensor? OM needs it badly.

My understanding is that this is an exclusive sensor. Maybe, it could be used by another company, but I see OM System needing better video tools and IQ before their to using it. Also, M43 sensors are more likely MORE expensive than some of the FF sensors.

If M43 truly dies, it'll be because of squandered opportunities by Panasonic and OM System, especially in the compact market as Fuji has seemingly stolen the market. It turns out "small and functional" should have been the end-game, not the class-leading features that they came up with.

They could still strike gold, even in this market. Both could give a FF, cheap, fixed-lens small and portable camera. If it looks good, it'll be amazing. IMO, 2025 will be a rehash of the dark days of poor quality cameras of the 1980's, but it could also be the glory years of the 50's when it comes to small cameras. Let's hope for the latter.

We should have some sympathy for these manufacturers too. Phones hit the "good enough" threshold long ago. Used cameras have been so good. Rising costs for manufacturing. Everything they knew about marketing has completely changed with influencers. And, to top it all off, political instability from oligarch life has led all these companies to second guess everything. Oh, I didn't mention the constant threats of war and tariffs in places that matter for them. That's quite a rap list. 

[Thpriest]

Panasonic should have included the 28 f8 pancake for free with the S9. That would have been good marketing. A camera which comes ready to shoot.

[MrSMW]

19 minutes ago, Thpriest said:

Panasonic should have included the 28 f8 pancake for free with the S9. That would have been good marketing. A camera which comes ready to shoot.

Plus if you wanted to, you could return the lens FOC back to them and they gave you a voucher to spend on something useful 😈

[MurtlandPhoto]

On 1/19/2025 at 12:13 AM, John Matthews said:

If M43 truly dies, it'll be because of squandered opportunities by Panasonic and OM System, especially in the compact market as Fuji has seemingly stolen the market. It turns out "small and functional" should have been the end-game, not the class-leading features that they came up with.

My take has always been that Panasonic should have prioritized a smooth m43 to full frame transition for customers. Having a blended ecosystem would help both thrive. As it is now, customers have to choose FF or m43, often with FF perceived as having most of the benefits. I think the first round of FF cameras should have had a m43 crop mode with faster readouts and frame rates. And, the mount Panasonic developed should have somehow been compatible with m43 lenses via an adapter. This might have meant messing with the flange distance which maybe reduced compatibility with other lens mounts, but ensured more people within the Panasonic system would have less switching costs.

[ArashM]

31 minutes ago, MurtlandPhoto said:

My take has always been that Panasonic should have prioritized a smooth m43 to full frame transition for customers. Having a blended ecosystem would help both thrive. As it is now, customers have to choose FF or m43, often with FF perceived as having most of the benefits. I think the first round of FF cameras should have had a m43 crop mode with faster readouts and frame rates. And, the mount Panasonic developed should have somehow been compatible with m43 lenses via an adapter. This might have meant messing with the flange distance which maybe reduced compatibility with other lens mounts, but ensured more people within the Panasonic system would have less switching costs.

This comment is so accurate! Totally agree.