What is Lumix thinking?!

[newfoundmass]

I am not suggesting they do it because it'd kill M43 dead and it'd mean starting from scratch, but they could in theory release 4/3 sensor cameras and lenses that would cover them for L-Mount. Again, not suggesting it, but I also can't say that I wouldn't be intrigued. I miss the small M43 lenses, but it's a really hard sell to re-invest in M43 and have two different systems.

I too also always thought it was weird that they didn't have a M43 crop mode on their full frame lenses. Not that I would use it a ton, but there are times when I would (that extra reach would be wonderful) and there really isn't a reason NOT to include it.

[MrSMW]

Actually, that is not a bad idea, - having the M4/3 crop on the FF sensor and better still if M4/3 lenses could be mounted with an adapter.

The G9II and S5II already share the same chassis and OK, some bemoan the size over some of the previous smaller bodies, but actually with some of the bigger M4/3 lenses, they would pair up very well.

And if we started with something like a 61MP sensor, plenty of size to crop into for what would be what, something somewhere around 20MP I guess (based on knowing that APSC is 26MP).

I body, many lenses, so many different use cases...

[Marcio Kabke Pinheiro]

On 1/18/2025 at 3:51 PM, Marcio Kabke Pinheiro said:

And L mount needs cheap and SMALL lenses. In a word - bring Viltrox to L-Mount. Panasonic releasing a 26mm f/8 manual lens with the S9 for $199 and Viltrox releasing a 28mm f/4.5 SMALLER and WITH AF for $99 was one of the most shameless moments of the year.
 

I guess Viltrox is follwing this thread... (just kidding)

https://www.l-rumors.com/viltrox-is-officially-negotiating-with-leica-for-the-l-mount-licensing/
 

[Ninpo33]

9 hours ago, Marcio Kabke Pinheiro said:

I guess Viltrox is follwing this thread... (just kidding)

https://www.l-rumors.com/viltrox-is-officially-negotiating-with-leica-for-the-l-mount-licensing/
 

Looks like its happening soon...

 

https://petapixel.com/2025/01/21/viltrox-negotiating-to-join-growing-l-mount-alliance/

[MrSMW]

If it happens, I hope they release an entire set of lenses and not drip drip drip lenses because I personally don’t like mix & match sets of lenses if I can at all avoid it.

[John Matthews]

4 hours ago, MrSMW said:

If it happens, I hope they release an entire set of lenses and not drip drip drip lenses because I personally don’t like mix & match sets of lenses if I can at all avoid it.

It's great there are 3rd party lens manufacturers. I never get them though. I would probably only consider Sigma (if they're the right size).

[ntblowz]

I would get their 28mm f4.5 body cap lens for sure, perfect match to S9!

[newfoundmass]

13 hours ago, John Matthews said:

It's great there are 3rd party lens manufacturers. I never get them though. I would probably only consider Sigma (if they're the right size).

I'd love to get them, just there are always compromises made. For example I tried the Meike lenses and they just aren't well built. Optically they are very good for their price, but I have zero confidence that they will hold up to heavy use. The ones I got also focused in reverse and didn't work with my S5II X's linear focusing (I've heard this has been fixed for their "pro" lenses).

Ultimately I went with Lumix primes instead, which you are pretty affordable on sites like MPB. You can get the 50mm f1.8 for $229 in "Like New" condition; for that price you might as well just get it over the Meike 50mm F1.8 at $169 new. It's a better lens and it's better made.

Another issue I've had with third party lenses is that they aren't always consistent. A 35mm will have different color shifts and characteristics than the 50mm does and so on. I've even experienced where the same lens, bought together at the same time, had color shifts between them! It's why I really like what Panasonic has done, as every lens is not only the same size but they are pretty much identical optically. I can easily switch between them without adjusting anything. 

Still, if they put out a really nice fast prime that is well made and significantly cheaper than the Lumix or Sigma version, then I'd definitely be interested. I don't have a ton of uses for a 1.2 or 1.4 lens, I don't usually need that much light or bokeh, but it'd be nice to have one when I did want that look.

 

[John Matthews]

I guess there are more Lumix updates:

Actually, I'm quite happy about having some of those features. In particular, I'm very interest in trying out the mp4 Lite and hybrid zoom; the later is a feature is a unique selling point. Cool.

Quick question: would Sony, Canon, or Nikon have released this firmware or would they have released a new camera?

[John Matthews]

4 hours ago, newfoundmass said:

Ultimately I went with Lumix primes instead, which you are pretty affordable on sites like MPB. You can get the 50mm f1.8 for $229 in "Like New" condition; for that price you might as well just get it over the Meike 50mm F1.8 at $169 new. It's a better lens and it's better made.

Another issue I've had with third party lenses is that they aren't always consistent. A 35mm will have different color shifts and characteristics than the 50mm does and so on. I've even experienced where the same lens, bought together at the same time, had color shifts between them! It's why I really like what Panasonic has done, as every lens is not only the same size but they are pretty much identical optically. I can easily switch between them without adjusting anything. 

Yes. Those are clear issues. It's possible a 3rd party will hit it out of the park with one or two lenses, but when you take the whole lineup into consideration, there often seems to be a hole. For critical professional use, it can be a problem. However, some lenses don't need that kind of consistency to exist in a bag.

[Marcio Kabke Pinheiro]

23 hours ago, newfoundmass said:

I'd love to get them, just there are always compromises made. For example I tried the Meike lenses and they just aren't well built. Optically they are very good for their price, but I have zero confidence that they will hold up to heavy use. The ones I got also focused in reverse and didn't work with my S5II X's linear focusing (I've heard this has been fixed for their "pro" lenses).

Ultimately I went with Lumix primes instead, which you are pretty affordable on sites like MPB. You can get the 50mm f1.8 for $229 in "Like New" condition; for that price you might as well just get it over the Meike 50mm F1.8 at $169 new. It's a better lens and it's better made.

Another issue I've had with third party lenses is that they aren't always consistent. A 35mm will have different color shifts and characteristics than the 50mm does and so on. I've even experienced where the same lens, bought together at the same time, had color shifts between them! It's why I really like what Panasonic has done, as every lens is not only the same size but they are pretty much identical optically. I can easily switch between them without adjusting anything. 

Still, if they put out a really nice fast prime that is well made and significantly cheaper than the Lumix or Sigma version, then I'd definitely be interested. I don't have a ton of uses for a 1.2 or 1.4 lens, I don't usually need that much light or bokeh, but it'd be nice to have one when I did want that look.

 

I agree - but Viltrox is not for fully professional use (specially video ones). Is to bring more people to the system.

They made a huge jump in quality - their first AF lenses were ok for the price, but the newer "Air" ones are much better optically, and cheaper (because use high quality plastic and basicalyy the same outer shell for a bunch of focal lenghts). Perfect for the S9 and for amateur / enthusiast use of the S5IIs.

And the 27mm f/1.2 and the 75mm f/1.2 are superb (but APS-C). But their LAB line looks promising.

[John Matthews]

Has anyone checked to see if, with the new firmware, the S5ii/x has working PDAF in FF at 50/60fps? If not, I can check.

[cosarth]

7 hours ago, John Matthews said:

Has anyone checked to see if, with the new firmware, the S5ii/x has working PDAF in FF at 50/60fps? If not, I can check.

Unfortunately, according to multiple youtubers who reviewed the new firmware, it's not.

[John Matthews]

22 minutes ago, cosarth said:

Unfortunately, according to multiple youtubers who reviewed the new firmware, it's not.

I guess that's only for the S9 (and whatever might be coming next). I have to say it's a strange limitation if this is truly the case.

[ntblowz]

52 minutes ago, John Matthews said:

I guess that's only for the S9 (and whatever might be coming next). I have to say it's a strange limitation if this is truly the case.

I think it could be hardware issue (LSI?), so nothing that the software can fix

[IronFilm]

On 1/21/2025 at 3:04 AM, MurtlandPhoto said:

My take has always been that Panasonic should have prioritized a smooth m43 to full frame transition for customers. Having a blended ecosystem would help both thrive. As it is now, customers have to choose FF or m43, often with FF perceived as having most of the benefits. I think the first round of FF cameras should have had a m43 crop mode with faster readouts and frame rates. And, the mount Panasonic developed should have somehow been compatible with m43 lenses via an adapter. This might have meant messing with the flange distance which maybe reduced compatibility with other lens mounts, but ensured more people within the Panasonic system would have less switching costs.

That would have been best. You can already mount manual MFT lenses onto another non-MFT mirrorless mount, Panasonic could have done that instead of L Mount. 

But I guess on the downside that would have meant not partnering with Sigma and Lecia. Surely that is an even worse move to miss out on that collaboration? 

  

On 1/23/2025 at 7:21 AM, ntblowz said:

I would get their 28mm f4.5 body cap lens for sure, perfect match to S9!

It just got released for X Mount! I'll probably get it soon for my Fujifilm X-A3

 

 

[ac6000cw]

1 hour ago, IronFilm said:

That would have been best. You can already mount manual MFT lenses onto another non-MFT mirrorless mount, Panasonic could have done that instead of L Mount. 

But I guess on the downside that would have meant not partnering with Sigma and Lecia. Surely that is an even worse move to miss out on that collaboration? 

The flange to sensor distance for L-mount is 20mm, for MFT it's 19.25mm, so a simple adaptor is not possible - L-mount flange to sensor distance would need to be at least a few mm less than MFT for that to work.

Also, MFT is a 2x crop vs. FF, so with an MFT lens the 24MP S1/S1H/S5/S9 sensor would become a 6MP sensor (max resolution of 3000 x 2000 pixels). That's not enough for UHD video or decent resolution stills, so not a very attractive prospect.

Nikon Z-mount is only 16mm flange to sensor distance (the shortest of the common mounts), hence other mirrorless lenses can theoretically be adapted to it e.g. the already existing E-mount to Z-mount adaptors.

(See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flange_focal_distance for flange to sensor distance list).

[IronFilm]

2 hours ago, ac6000cw said:

The flange to sensor distance for L-mount is 20mm, for MFT it's 19.25mm, so a simple adaptor is not possible - L-mount flange to sensor distance would need to be at least a few mm less than MFT for that to work.

I never said that MFT could be used on L Mount, I was saying quite the opposite. I was acknowledging that it isn't possible, but I was saying other mirrorless lens mounts do exist that can accept MFT. (such as E Mount: https://www.ebay.com/itm/144720549405 )

So Panasonic could have created a new mount that allowed MFT lenses to also be used on it. 

However... at the cost of thus then going it alone, and not with the wider L Mount Alliance that it is part of. 

 

2 hours ago, ac6000cw said:

Also, MFT is a 2x crop vs. FF, so with an MFT lens the 24MP S1/S1H/S5/S9 sensor would become a 6MP sensor (max resolution of 3000 x 2000 pixels). That's not enough for UHD video or decent resolution stills, so not a very attractive prospect.

But what if you're filming with a Panasonic S1R? Then you can!

Also, as the JVC LS300 showed (and the various people who adapted MFT lenses to Sony E Mount cameras etc) you often can use MFT lenses on a slightly bigger APS-C sensor. And S35 of 24megapixels is plenty for UHD. 

Plus there are a lot of "MFT lenses" that are actually originally designed for APS-C (such for X Mount, or APS-C E Mount or Z Mount), which then got slapped on a MFT mount so as to capture extra sales. But it is still inherently an APS-C lens!

Also what if if in this hypothetical timeline, this Panasonic FF didn't just have S35 mode but even 1.6x or even 1.7x modes? For those MFT lenses that don't quite cover APS-C, then even at those greater crop levels that's still enough for UHD!

You'd then have a situation where many MFT shooters could easily move across with all / most of their MFT lenses still "working" on their new Panasonic FF bodies. 

[newfoundmass]

10 hours ago, IronFilm said:

But I guess on the downside that would have meant not partnering with Sigma and Lecia. Surely that is an even worse move to miss out on that collaboration? 

 

I think forming the L-Mount alliance might've been primarily because of the pre-existing relationship they had with Leica and the convenience, as they'd already worked with the mount due to the existing relationship. I think they could've created their own mount and still worked with virtually all of the same companies. It's not like the user base of Leica users that already had L-mount lenses was that huge or that those folks would be all that interested in Lumix cameras because they were Leica users already for a reason. And it's not like those who bought Lumix L-mount cameras ended up buying a ton of Leica glass. But why potentially piss off Leica?

----

The more I think about it the more I do think Lumix should consider releasing a smaller sensor L-mount camera and some smaller lenses. Testing the waters with the potential of unifying all their cameras under the same lens mount seems like the best bet. I know it risks hurting the M43 line but unifying all their offerings under a single lens mount seems like the best move long term, especially considering all of their current M43 lenses are getting a little long in the tooth and could use an update.

[newfoundmass]

5 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Also, as the JVC LS300 showed (and the various people who adapted MFT lenses to Sony E Mount cameras etc) you often can use MFT lenses on a slightly bigger APS-C sensor. And S35 of 24megapixels is plenty for UHD. 

I'd have to go back and look at old footage, but I don't think I ever encountered vignetting when using Lumix lenses on my old LS300. 

I wish JVC had released a successor, that was such an underrated camera.