What is Lumix thinking?!

[Andrew Reid]

Yeah it's the silence which is the problem, and the poor communication. We still have nothing to hang on, and it has sucked all the interest and appeal out of the Panasonic high-end stuff.

Many have simply moved on, myself included.

I just can't see what the appeal would be, however good the S1H II might be, of having to buy loads of L-mount lenses and a new camera when stuff like a used $3500 Sony a1 or Nikon Z8 exists and is more speed, specs and image quality than I'll ever really need.

Even if Panasonic add an internal ND to the S1H II, and do a smaller body, and price it at $3500, there's still the problem of what lenses to put on the front.

And you know what, I think they know this.

Which is why they have left the high-end camera market to Leica.

[MrSMW]

45 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

Yeah it's the silence which is the problem, and the poor communication.

100% agree

45 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

Which is why they have left the high-end camera market to Leica.

100% hope not!

But then as per my many previous ramblings, I am 100% covered for the rest of my career with what is available for now from LUMIX for video and for photo, if there does turn out to be nothing more, also already covered with Sony.

There is not a single body or lens not currently made that I need or would ever wish for if it doesn’t happen.

I’m good. Any future purchase now are just choice things to either make (work) life things a little easier or more fun. Need no longer exists.

[newfoundmass]

I'm more optimistic about Lumix than a lot of people. I think they will continue to release the best value cameras out there, the issue will be not just retaining their current users (regardless of which system they are invested in) but growing it. I think they can achieve that.

I have seen signs that they've accomplished the latter somewhat with the S5II X. It has been more of a trickle than a flood, but there are people out there who switched from Sony to Lumix because of it. To continue that, they need to continue on the current path but radically change the way they communicate and market their product. That, for them, seems to be the hardest thing to overcome.

[Walter H]

I absolutely agree with everyone regarding the lack of communication regarding the release (or planning toward the release) of cameras that are oriented toward professionals. It's one thing if a consumer happily comes upon a new release and is pleased, it is different when our income (and our passion) is tied to a camera line.

Edit: Great - since posting this last night, I'm reading up on the Z8...

[mercer]

On 2/6/2025 at 8:57 PM, Andrew Reid said:

Doesn't look like she eats many crisps.

There should definitely be more thin lenses.

I have become allergic to heavy stuff.

I mean look at this pair...

So much more fun than your average worktool + heavy work zoom

Is that a Q7? I had one briefly for video about 10 years ago... the image wasn't horrible but it had the worst rolling shutter I have ever seen, but it was fun using old Kern 8mm lenses on it... which I still have. Now that I shoot more stills than I used to, I could see how it may be fun to throw in your jacket pocket. 

[Al Dolega]

I think I'm out. If Panny had brought out or at least announced an S1Hii late last year I probably would have sprung for it, but recently my willingness to drop 3-4K on a new body, and to schlep around 15lbs/$8k of FF gear has mostly dried up.

Gonna sell off my S5iiX and L-mount lenses and fall back to ol' reliable m4/3. The DR and ISO performance on the G9ii look to be good enough for my needs, I'll be gaining 4K120, and I'll be able to move from a Pelican to a medium-sized backpack.

[Thpriest]

On 2/10/2025 at 2:31 PM, Al Dolega said:

I think I'm out. If Panny had brought out or at least announced an S1Hii late last year I probably would have sprung for it, but recently my willingness to drop 3-4K on a new body, and to schlep around 15lbs/$8k of FF gear has mostly dried up.

Gonna sell off my S5iiX and L-mount lenses and fall back to ol' reliable m4/3. The DR and ISO performance on the G9ii look to be good enough for my needs, I'll be gaining 4K120, and I'll be able to move from a Pelican to a medium-sized backpack.

Strange time to go when they are supposedly only a few weeks away from announcing 2 new cameras. Maybe it would be better to wait a few weeks more and see what they are going to release?

Although if it's about weight and cost then fair enough.

[MrSMW]

I also would not be and am not jumping off the good ship L Mount until we at least know what is coming. Or not coming.

I guess it depends how invested you are in the system though and how well it is working for you…

For me, for video, boxes ticked.

For stills, not quite as things stand.

On this video centric forum, an S2H will be of more interest and I am interested, but at this time, think it an unlikely purchase for myself.

1/2 price Leica SL3 however, almost certainly ticks the photo need box.

[ntblowz]

https://www.l-rumors.com/surprise-lumix-s1rii-will-not-use-the-same-leica-sl3-sensor/

 

Will they use that new 45MP sensor?!

[MrSMW]

4 minutes ago, ntblowz said:

https://www.l-rumors.com/surprise-lumix-s1rii-will-not-use-the-same-leica-sl3-sensor/

 

Will they use that new 45MP sensor?!

My money is on the same 61mp as in the SL3 and the Sony A7RV.

There is a second rumoured LUMIX camera supposedly going to be announced in April if the information coming out of a certain mountain shed in the Dolomites is accurate and maybe that will have this 45mp sensor?

[John Matthews]

44 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

My money is on the same 61mp as in the SL3 and the Sony A7RV.

There is a second rumoured LUMIX camera supposedly going to be announced in April if the information coming out of a certain mountain shed in the Dolomites is accurate and maybe that will have this 45mp sensor?

I sometimes go back to look at my photos of the A7R2 and compare them with the S5ii. You'd really think the difference would be massive in that the Sony has 18MP more than the Panasonic. In reality, the difference seems minuscule to me. It would seem it's more about cropping than IQ. For video, I imagine the difference would be more in that you might get less moiré (not that I've ever seen in my personal footage, only in YouTube video tests).

[eatstoomuchjam]

13 minutes ago, John Matthews said:

In reality, the difference seems minuscule to me. It would seem it's more about cropping than IQ.

As far as IQ goes, it depends on the presentation.  If the intended presentation is a computer/TV screen (which most are these days), it could be argued that anything above 24 megapixels is more about cropping than IQ.  24 megapixels is more than 2x what a 16:9 4K screen can display natively.  If the presentation is going to be a 16x20 print at 300 dpi, around 30 megapixels will suffice.

17 minutes ago, John Matthews said:

For video, I imagine the difference would be more in that you might get less moiré (not that I've ever seen in my personal footage, only in YouTube video tests).

For video, in a lot of ways, a high megapixel sensor is less-than-ideal since it will need either a crazy readout speed and fast processor or it will need to result to various forms of binning/skipping.

[MrSMW]

I would not expect to see any real world difference at all between a 45mp FF sensor and a 61mp other than in the most extreme of crops and pixel-peeping in direct side by side tests, ie, 'fuck all'.

When I went from Fuji XT3 to OG LUMIX S5, I noticed a marginal difference.

I could not have told you in words what that difference was except other than the raw files were a bit 'cleaner' and had a little more latitude?

Then going from OG S5 to S1R, I noticed immediately another 'jump', but this time it was more to do with detail as should be expected.

Then I went back to 24mp FF for the best part of a year before going to Sony A7RV and I would not call it night and day, but the clarity and latitude in the Sony files is on another level to LUMIX/Nikon 24mp files.

After shooting most of last year with the A7RV (and I am talking purely stills here, not shot a single second of video with it) I went back to dabbling with some 24mp FF and they were definitely lacking compared with the 61mp sensor files from the A7RV.

So I would expect any 'S2R' to be as equally 'ahead' of any 24mp previous or current gen LUMIX camera and that is one of my 'deal-breakers' for me to chop my A7RV in to get one.

And ideally, multiple crop markers as per the current FF LUMIX cameras because I want to shoot in 3:2 aspect ratio with a 2.4:1 and a 9:16 overlay with every single frame.

And 61mp, allows me an APSC crop with a 26mp file, with marginal more detail than a FF 24mp file.

A 45 or as in the old S1R, 47mp, is about 18mp which was and is OK, but I'd rather have more so I can get the Sigma 28-105mm f2.8 as a genuine 'one & done' lens.

[MrSMW]

Actually The Oracle Of The Dolomites has just posted to say the S2R will now have a sub 60mp sensor 🤨

[John Matthews]

1 hour ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

If the presentation is going to be a 16x20 print at 300 dpi, around 30 megapixels will suffice.

300 dpi is for photos you look at super close. A 16x20 in is not that; many photos printed at that size will have "enough detail" at 150dpi. It also depends on the printer, but print has even less of a difference than a screen because you simply cannot zoom in.

Here's my favorite video on the subject:

 

[eatstoomuchjam]

Viewing distance definitely matters!  I didn't watch the video yet, but I remember that Kodak used to have a billboard (or mural?) in Grand Central Terminal in NYC that bragged that the photo on it was taken on Kodak's own 35mm film...  and since it was high up, everybody was viewing it from 20-30 meters away.  😅

[Al Dolega]

9 hours ago, Thpriest said:

Strange time to go when they are supposedly only a few weeks away from announcing 2 new cameras. Maybe it would be better to wait a few weeks more and see what they are going to release?

Although if it's about weight and cost then fair enough.

Yes it is mostly about cost, and weight/bulk. I'm no longer shooting for money and my financial position is not nearly good enough to justify keeping ~$6-7K of kit for personal shooting, when I think I could probably be happy or at least satisfied with ~$3K worth, and put the rest into savings/retirement. 

A good chunk of my shooting is also in fairly risky scenarios, and I guess as I get older the idea of a ~$3-4K body with $500-1,000 of lens and rigging on it getting smashed or stolen is increasingly less appealing than risking a $1200 body with $50-500 on it.

I'll definitely be happy about heading out the door with a 20lb backpack on instead of dragging a 35lb Pelican!

We'll see. I've started buying the m4/3 setup, and am going to sell off the L-mount stuff I haven't really used as much first. Maybe the GAS/shiny new toy instinct will take back over, but I like to think I'll be able to continue being an adult about this 😄

[ac6000cw]

3 hours ago, MrSMW said:

My money is on the same 61mp as in the SL3 and the Sony A7RV.

There is a second rumoured LUMIX camera supposedly going to be announced in April if the information coming out of a certain mountain shed in the Dolomites is accurate and maybe that will have this 45mp sensor?

So if it's going to be 45 - 47 MP, I wonder if it's going to be a fast stacked sensor and possibly the new camera might be a replacement for both the S1r and the S1H (giving that 8K video capability with usable rolling shutter)?

[John Matthews]

3 minutes ago, Al Dolega said:

We'll see. I've started buying the m4/3 setup, and am going to sell off the L-mount stuff I haven't really used as much first. Maybe the GAS/shiny new toy instinct will take back over, but I like to think I'll be able to continue being an adult about this 😄

That's a good plan. I've now sold all of my M43 stuff (except a GH2). Honestly, if you couple DXO Noise reduction, you'll very usable shots in low light and good light for screen and print. The only thing FF does for photography is wide-angle shallow DOF for photos. Also, if you plan on using vintage lenses, FF is a better choice. 

[John Matthews]

3 minutes ago, ac6000cw said:

So if it's going to be 45 - 47 MP, I wonder if it's going to be a fast stacked sensor and possibly the new camera might be a replacement for both the S1r and the S1H (giving that 8K video capability with usable rolling shutter)?

Undoubtably, Panasonic will choose a cheeper sensor with great readout times in S35 mode and less so in FF. I cannot see them taking a global shutter, but I do remember Sean of Lumix admiring the Nikon one. I just think they'd need to ask TowerJazz or someone else to make one for them because I doubt Sony will. Could be wrong though. High megapixel is not necessarily a good sign because it seems that's what you do when you cannot do a more meaningful update. Specs sell though. I do think that, if done right, 8k will offer "more". I just hope they get the downresing right.