What is Lumix thinking?!

[ac6000cw]

25 minutes ago, John Matthews said:

Undoubtably, Panasonic will choose a cheeper sensor with great readout times in S35 mode and less so in FF. I cannot see them taking a global shutter, but I do remember Sean of Lumix admiring the Nikon one. I just think they'd need to ask TowerJazz or someone else to make one for them because I doubt Sony will. Could be wrong though. High megapixel is not necessarily a good sign because it seems that's what you do when you cannot do a more meaningful update. Specs sell though. I do think that, if done right, 8k will offer "more". I just hope they get the downresing right.

Well, the S1R was $3699 at launch back in 2019, and the Z8 was $3999 at launch in 2023 - and that has a 45.7MP stacked sensor (from Sony?).

So I think they'll either launch a cheapish high-res camera (S5R ?) aimed primarily at stills use (in A7CR/Z7ii price territory) followed maybe by a higher-end video-orientated camera later (S5H ?), or attempt to merge both (but I think they'd have to undercut the Z8 street price to sell enough).

But like you, I suspect they'll go for the high-res 'value' option...

[John Matthews]

8 minutes ago, ac6000cw said:

Well, the S1R was $3699 at launch back in 2019, and the Z8 was $3999 at launch in 2023 - and that has a 45.7MP stacked sensor (from Sony?).

So I think they'll either launch a cheapish high-res camera (S5R ?) aimed primarily at stills use (in A7CR/Z7ii price territory) followed maybe by a higher-end video-orientated camera later (S5H ?), or attempt to merge both (but I think they'd have to undercut the Z8 street price to sell enough).

But like you, I suspect they'll go for the high-res 'value' option...

One could argue that the difference in the S5ii as the photo hybrid and the S5iix as the video hybrid isn't enough of a difference. A high MP sensor in a S5ii body would make that clearer.

[MrSMW]

49 minutes ago, ac6000cw said:

So if it's going to be 45 - 47 MP, I wonder if it's going to be a fast stacked sensor and possibly the new camera might be a replacement for both the S1r and the S1H (giving that 8K video capability with usable rolling shutter)?

Well maybe, just maybe, they are going to replace what was a 3 model system with a 2 model and that will be a more photo-centric option that was previously the S1R and then a more video-centric one which was the S1H, but use the same sensor?

They would need to differentiate these in some way or folks would just say, why did they not just make the one camera.

Maybe, the S1R replacement will be your more trad DSLR type body and for the S1H 'replacement' will be more box/modular?

The 'S2R' would maybe have mech shutter but the 'S2H' would do away with it?

As I have said multiple times, I'm not really in the market for an 'S2H'. Interested, but it's not on my need list.

Any 'S2R', is going to have to compete and be at least equal my A7RV and a smaller sensor is a mark against it already. If this rumour is true... If anything, I would rather it was larger than 60mp!

If it's anything based on the S5II body it's game over for LUMIX for stills for me. It's a decent enough body, but in terms of build from screen type and res, through shutter mech and feel, to overall feel, it's not the pro level body I want for my stills work.

We shall find out son enough I guess...

[MrSMW]

49 minutes ago, ac6000cw said:

So if it's going to be 45 - 47 MP, I wonder if it's going to be a fast stacked sensor and possibly the new camera might be a replacement for both the S1r and the S1H (giving that 8K video capability with usable rolling shutter)?

Well maybe, just maybe, they are going to replace what was a 3 model system with a 2 model and that will be a more photo-centric option that was previously the S1R and then a more video-centric one which was the S1H, but use the same sensor?

They would need to differentiate these in some way or folks would just say, why did they not just make the one camera.

Maybe, the S1R replacement will be your more trad DSLR type body and for the S1H 'replacement' will be more box/modular?

The 'S2R' would maybe have mech shutter but the 'S2H' would do away with it?

As I have said multiple times, I'm not really in the market for an 'S2H'. Interested, but it's not on my need list.

Any 'S2R', is going to have to compete and be at least equal my A7RV and a smaller sensor is a mark against it already. If this rumour is true... If anything, I would rather it was larger than 60mp!

If it's anything based on the S5II body it's game over for LUMIX for stills for me. It's a decent enough body, but in terms of build from screen type and res, through shutter mech and feel, to overall feel, it's not the pro level body I want for my stills work.

We shall find out son enough I guess...

[stephen]

I can see only one reason not to use Sony 61 Mpx sensor and go with lower megapixel one: faster readout times. We will know soon.

[Al Dolega]

Merging the S1R and S1 into a single high-ish MP body could make sense, if you assume the S5ii/X are already kinda covering that part of the market, and then there'd be room for the new camera to come in at a little more reasonable price. Maybe $3K? Might be a kind of sweet spot since Z8 A7RV R5II are all up at $4K or so.

[newfoundmass]

18 hours ago, MrSMW said:

On this video centric forum, an S2H will be of more interest and I am interested, but at this time, think it an unlikely purchase for myself.

I think the only thing that a S2H could have that would make me even think about it would have to be internal ND.

Honestly the S5II X does everything i need and then some. 

[Robert Patts]

I think if you use some deductive reasoning it is easty to guess the specs.

Chris Niccolls posted on Insta Stories of the camera, so it will share the same body of the S5IIX

It will be high megapixels...that is a fact...which means at least 8K shooting.

Since every single camera from Panasonic has had opengate...you can guess 8k Opengate 

If it can do 8k opengate, do the math, it can probably shoot downsampled 6k + 4k.

It is an RII series, so most likely no Internal ND's.

 

[Andrew Reid]

19 hours ago, Robert Patts said:

I think if you use some deductive reasoning it is easty to guess the specs.

Chris Niccolls posted on Insta Stories of the camera, so it will share the same body of the S5IIX

It will be high megapixels...that is a fact...which means at least 8K shooting.

Since every single camera from Panasonic has had opengate...you can guess 8k Opengate 

If it can do 8k opengate, do the math, it can probably shoot downsampled 6k + 4k.

It is an RII series, so most likely no Internal ND's.

 

It won't share the same body as the S5 II X.

The EVF isn't big enough.

The body isn't professional enough, it's mid-range trash.

Much more likely the S1H II will come along in a coffin... aka DOA.

[Ninpo33]

On 2/12/2025 at 10:56 PM, Robert Patts said:

I think if you use some deductive reasoning it is easty to guess the specs.

Chris Niccolls posted on Insta Stories of the camera, so it will share the same body of the S5IIX

 

That’s not confirmed, just because people snagged a low res pic from his video it’s totally guessing. He had black tape over the logo but doesn’t mean he was shooting on the new camera. The S5 line was not flagship and cheaper feeling so the two new cameras will probably both be fairly robust and pro flagship quality. (I hope).

I would love to see a LUMIX version of the 50mp A1 and a high end box style cinema/video camera. 

 

[Ninpo33]

Personally I hope they use the sensor from the A1 and give us 50mp stills and down sampled 8k with amazing IBIS and all the other LUMIX goodies for anamorphic, X-Pan crops and the like…

[Thpriest]

8 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

It won't share the same body as the S5 II X.

The EVF isn't big enough.

The body isn't professional enough, it's mid-range trash.

Much more likely the S1H II will come along in a coffin... aka DOA.

I don't understand how you can call the S5mk2/X trash. Yes, the EVF isn't as good as the one on the S1 but it's perfectly usable (unlike the original S5's EVF which was poor). The camera is a superb all rounder that does things that others can't. I have 2 and when I have events where I need to film the whole event (hours long), I just stick an S5mk2 connected to XLR sound and record 4K for hours on end. The other shoot B-roll, interviews and photos. They are pro cameras.

[Andrew Reid]

12 minutes ago, Thpriest said:

I don't understand how you can call the S5mk2/X trash. Yes, the EVF isn't as good as the one on the S1 but it's perfectly usable (unlike the original S5's EVF which was poor).

I just think it feels cheap and looks even cheaper, it doesn't have a fun factor or a uniqueness to it. Camera design by numbers.

At least the big bulky old S1H had a glorious best in class EVF, really satisfying mechanical shutter and fantastic top panel display, as well as looking and feeling like a beast. Whereas the S5 series, Mark II included just feels like a kind of "me too, I want to be a Sony a7 as well" kind of camera, but it isn't as good as one.

12 minutes ago, Thpriest said:

The camera is a superb all rounder that does things that others can't. I have 2 and when I have events where I need to film the whole event (hours long), I just stick an S5mk2 connected to XLR sound and record 4K for hours on end. The other shoot B-roll, interviews and photos. They are pro cameras.

For events you are best off with a camcorder.

[Andrew Reid]

2 hours ago, Ninpo33 said:

Personally I hope they use the sensor from the A1 and give us 50mp stills and down sampled 8k with amazing IBIS and all the other LUMIX goodies for anamorphic, X-Pan crops and the like…

Yes please, that would float our boat.

(Never thought Panasonic catching up to Sony's 2021 tech would be that exciting a prospect, but at this point I'll take it)

[MrSMW]

26 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

At least the big bulky old S1H had a glorious best in class EVF, really satisfying mechanical shutter and fantastic top panel display, as well as looking and feeling like a beast.

Yep, always said a slightly smaller, slightly lighter, but otherwise S1H body/shutter mech/rear screen etc, would be PERFECT. If we can have something like that, I'm halfway in.

3 hours ago, Ninpo33 said:

Personally I hope they use the sensor from the A1 and give us 50mp stills and down sampled 8k with amazing IBIS and all the other LUMIX goodies for anamorphic, X-Pan crops and the like…

Then I am the other half, ie, all in.

42 minutes ago, Thpriest said:

I don't understand how you can call the S5mk2/X trash

I think Andrew is referring to the body/build/physical stuff rather than it's capabilities?

It's not 'trash' as such, far from it, but it's not built like the S1H and I'm not just talking size/weight/heft, but stuff like that rear screen, that top display, shutter mech feel and sound etc...

30 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

Never thought Panasonic catching up to Sony's 2021 tech would be that exciting a prospect, but at this point I'll take it

Are LUMIX going to actually release something a bit special...??!!

Also, from that other thread, have you got a particular hat in mind if it turns out to be the case, ie, not the same sensor as the SL3? 😋

 

[Andrew Reid]

I like trash talking Panasonic at the moment! They deserve it.

[MrSMW]

I would settle for ‘slightly cryptic’ but they are not even that are they.

’Totally silent’ is their attitude to their market.

Possibly not the smartest approach, but if their product line is good…

[Andrew Reid]

Like I say I think it's curtains already, whatever they bring out this year is too late.

People have moved on.

The ones that do stick with Panasonic must be amongst the most loyal customers in the industry, in any industry.

Anyway we'll see what they bring out at CP+ in Japan at the end of this month.

If it's anything else with an old sensor in an S5 II body I'm not interested.

[Ninpo33]

1 hour ago, Andrew Reid said:

Like I say I think it's curtains already, whatever they bring out this year is too late.

People have moved on.

The ones that do stick with Panasonic must be amongst the most loyal customers in the industry, in any industry.

I hate to admit it but it’s true. The current S5 line up are all solid and super inexpensive workhorses but starting to loose whatever edge they had. I’m reinvesting in older LUMIX stuff now that things are dirt cheap but mostly looking towards Fuji and Sony for the future. I have 0 native L mount glass so it’s easy to adapt to whatever. if something cool happens next week I’ll reconsider. For now I’m shopping for Soviet Medium  Format glass to finish my GFX friendly set. 
 

 

[Andrew Reid]

Yeah, I just don't feel like there's a unique reason to continue with Panasonic any more. For Micro Four Thirds, the OM-1 was the peak in terms of offering something different and fun vs the usual full frame work tools.

For full frame, L-mount has gone backwards quite frankly from the S1H.

Can anyone really say that after nearly SIX years there has been another L-mount camera that's better for filmmakers than the S1H?

S5 is just a bargain bin version by comparison. S5 II had a few nice new features and the edge of affordability / phase-detect AF.... High-frame rates on the GH6 and GH7, a nice small full frame camera with the S9, but none of them are overall BETTER in every way than a 6 year old Panasonic S1H.

And this is all rather disappointing because Panasonic are not supposed to spend 6 years going backwards.

If it wasn't for my Sigma Fp-L I would have no L-mount cameras at all now. The SL2 is gone, S9 is gone, S5 II is sold and I just don't have any need for what it does compared to Sony, Fuji, Canon, Nikon and Olympus.

This is why I think the problems at Panasonic are deeper than we think.

I am a Lumix loyalist, a long-time early adopter and huge fan of what Panasonic did in the world of cameras, and not just with the GH2!

To lose a customer like me is a very bad sign that they have fucked up.