100fps to 1000fps - a detailed look at slow motion on the Sony RX100 IV / RX10 II

[Andrew Reid]

 

The slow-mo capabilities of the new Sony RX cameras are groundbreaking.

I've been shooting at 100fps to 1000fps and everything in between.

Here is everything you need to know.

Read the full article

[ghaack]

Very detailed review. Do you know if the rx-10 ii does clean HDMI out? If so at what FPS, resolutions?

[Andrew Peralta]

Thanks for the review. I have a quick question. I know 240 fps using Time Shoot Priority will not be as good as 240 fps using Quality Priority but is 240 fps using Time Shoot Priority higher quality then 480 fps at Quality Priority? Since we are shooting less frames at 240 fps at TSP compared to 480 fps at QP, I was wondering if it actually pixel bins and aliases less at 240 fps at TSP even though we are shooting at same effective pixel resolution at both 240 fps TSP and 480 fps QP. If it's better it would be helpful to use 240 fps TSP to get that 4 second record time for situations that call for it.

[Andrew Reid]

Thanks for the review. I have a quick question. I know 240 fps using Time Shoot Priority will not be as good as 240 fps using Quality Priority but is 240 fps using Time Shoot Priority higher quality then 480 fps at Quality Priority? I know both these settings are shooting at same resolution but since were shooting less frames at 240 fps at TSP compared to 480 fps at QP, I was wondering if it actually pixel bins and aliases less at 240 fps at TSP even though we are shooting at same effective pixel resolution at both 240 fps TSP and 480 fps QP. If it's better it would be helpful to use 240 fps TSP to get that 4 second record time for situations that call for it.

​Good question. I'm going to cover that in the final review.

[MattH]

If you have access to an RX100 iv please could you confirm what the maximum record times are for 50/60p and 100/120p?  (Or at least confirm if they go over 5 minutes).

If they are doing a full pixel readout I would expect the limit to be 5 minutes like the 4k due to heat.

No-one has yet discovered this information.

[Guest Ebrahim Saadawi]

Specs mean nothing, I rest my case for my previous article 

All these limitations really almost scrap out the release buzz we had about the RX10 having FS700 Slo-mo, that it finally trickled down to consumers, 240p, 480p, 960p, something no other cameras gives, but again, these were specs. 

Real life,  for my use and for most normal shooters, 2 seconds, focusing issues, writing speed, buggy pop-ups, make anything above 120p unusable but for very very small niche situations. 

However, that's not against the RX10, it's against specs in general. 

Some thoughts about the RX10II,

I am watching this camera closely as I believe this is a stepping stone in the camera -making industry even if Sony doesn't realize it, the camera that's starting the ''complete do-it-all'' concept. 

It's clearly a wonderful little camera, the S-log2 colours actually look great from what I've seen, more like RX10 colours (which was very Canon-like, no nastiness, yellownish, greenish, greyish skins, purple skies) than A7s, but just as flat and goes to 800 ISO + Internal ND so it's practically 200, no issue as it is on the a7s, perhaps the lower S-Log2 ISO is what making the colours appear more pleasing, more thick than the a7s in S-Log, all cameras do get thin colours at high ISOs after all. This is just an initial ''feel'' from random images not scientific data, but still simple 'feel' is really vital in image quality.

The 120p is simply amazing, it should f been marketed very clearly that it's the same as 24p quality, that's huge. This covers more than 90% of slow motion needs, actually 60p covers 80% of what shooters need for slo-mo, and having that 120p speed at RX10 24p quality without any limitations, is simply amazing, no other cameras in this class does it at all, none, just the FS7, C300II, and FS700, etc. Thumbs to Sony for giving us HIGH QUALITY slow motion for the consumer, for the first time ever 

If they wanted to momentarily kill the XC10 and camcorders, they should have added a broadcast approved codec, meaning 4:2:2, in 1080p and 4:2:2 4K with a higher bitrate (200ish), added larger & longer-lasting battery, rotating grip, Dual media slots, and that's practically killing the entire camcorder and XC10 market, including broadcast and professional video, in a form factor that's very small and adequate. Make the lens removable with an E mount in front of the s16 sensor, so when coupled with a SB it's also killing the GH4, NX1, C100 market (with the XLR KLM attachment/handle)

It's just a very ''complete'' camera with this MKII update, and the only thing that will make me not buy it, is inability to get shallower DOF and get creative with lensing, which is a shame as there is absolutely no equivalent interchangeable-lens option out there with high quality 4K, LOG, sharp clean 120p, ND filters, XLRs, lovely ergonomics and usability, 

Do it in a year with the MKIII, you're Sony, if there's anyone who'll do it it's you!

-Longer battery life 

-4:2:2 internal 

-Keep the exact same s16 lens but with an E mount, or m43s or C mount 

-Add 5 axis in-body stabilization for those s16 manual lenses

-Dual Card Slots 

That's it, you've made ''the'' camera for everything, narrative, low-budget cinema (with s16 lenses or SB) to broadcast (4:2:2), documentaries (long battery, lens and dual media), to music videos (120p!).

Some people will still go for other cameras with slightly higher image quality but not so many, as 8mp s35 sensors in Cx00, 12mp video sensor in XC10, FF look in A7, Lowlight in A7s, but most video shooters will go for the complete do-it-all device that can everything more than well enough for their applications all in one, it would heavily out-sell every other video camera out there. The RX10II and RX10III are going to be a memorable industry surprise like 5D's, 550Ds, GH4, mark my words. This is democratizing high quality film-making and making it easier for everyone to do everything. 

 

[dahlfors]

I really hope they can add a 120p mode that performs as well for the upcoming A7000. RX10 II is very tempting, but I'd prefer interchangeable lenses.

[Mat Mayer]

Damn Ebrahim, I was just about to pick up an FZ1000 for half the price of the RX10ii and wait for the A7sii or the rx10ii to reduce in price. Going to have to re-think yet again. 

[Marco Tecno]

Would you please compare the iq at 120fps with that of samsung nx1 (both at maximum quality)?

 

Some comparison stills from videos would be welcome.

 

Thx.

[Andrew Reid]

Would you please compare the iq at 120fps with that of samsung nx1 (both at maximum quality)?

 

Some comparison stills from videos would be welcome.

 

Thx.

​Yes will do that but there's really no comparison, the 120p from the Sonys is in a different league.

[Marco Tecno]

Yes, but I'd like to see the stills and understand if I can tell the difference. Thx!

[Guest Ebrahim Saadawi]

Damn Ebrahim, I was just about to pick up an FZ1000 for half the price of the RX10ii and wait for the A7sii or the rx10ii to reduce in price. Going to have to re-think yet again. 

Mat, the FZ1000 is great on paper, but have you any footage shot on that camera that looks good? I certainly haven't.

Looks horribly video-ish, enormous F8-F14 FF equiv. depth of field, tiny narrow DR, disastrous highlight clipping, excessive digital sharpening, too much noise at  800+ ISO. I just never seen any image that looks appealing from that camera despite the impressive spec list.

I am sure if a very careful and talented cinematographer and a great colourist wanted to achieve a pleasing look off of it they will do it, but natively the camera just doesn't look as good as many other cameras even the first RX10. That's just my subjective opinion of the image. I find it really unappealing for anything short of stock landscape footage in daylight for traveling maybe. 

[Mat Mayer]

​Yes will do that but there's really no comparison, the 120p from the Sonys is in a different league.

Andrew, I just found out the price of the RX10ii in Thailand. It is £800! In the UK it is £1200. This makes it a no-brainer surely? Very surprised and delighted as some cameras aren't available here like the FZ1000. They said it will be in stock after 29th July. If I put a deposit down I get a free battery and filter. Is it a no brainer compared to the FZ1000? Or should I wait until your final tests? I only care about 4K outdoor video quality (camera still on tripod), having full manual control and footage I can grade (so the S Log sounds better on paper).

Edit: shit I just realised I can probably claim the 7% VAT back when I leave the country making the total cost £750. 

[Mat Mayer]

Mat, the FZ1000 is great on paper, but have you any footage shot on that camera that looks good? I certainly haven't.

Looks horribly video-ish, enormous F8-F14 FF equiv. depth of field, tiny narrow DR, disastrous highlight clipping, excessive digital sharpening, too much noise at  800+ ISO. I just never seen any image that looks appealing from that camera despite the impressive spec list.

I am sure if a very careful and talented cinematographer and a great colourist wanted to achieve a pleasing look off of it they will do it, but natively the camera just doesn't look as good as many other cameras even the first RX10. That's just my subjective opinion of the image. I find it really unappealing for anything short of stock landscape footage in daylight for traveling maybe. 

Thanks for letting me know. I am currently slow traveling so don't have good screens to check footage. It's photos look pretty noisy and lacking. Anyway my above post about finding the RX10ii for an awesome price means I have flip flopped, yet again. Just want a bit more confirmation that the RX10ii is great, then will go and put my deposit down hopefully tomorrow.

[Nikkor]

I don't think there is any camera that can compete with the rx10ii unless you are looking for high iso, shallow dof,raw video,interchangeable lenses,etc... Compared to the fz1000 it's a nobrainer.

[mickachiste]

Ok that sony looks really amazing ! It has all that i am looking for : really good slo-mo and it' a water-sealed bridge (if i am not wrong). 

I already own a fz1000 but i am strugling with the colours... On the other side it has this magic lens that can go up to 400. So my question is How about the numerical zoom on the rx10 ii ? Does it impact the image ? And can we expect to still have the 120p ? I really need a long range like the fe1000 with the rx10 ii specs... Hmm sounds like a dream !

[Mat Mayer]

Water sealing sounds awesome, does that mean it is OK to use in the rain or that you can actually put it under water? On my last trip I was calculating what I would rather damage when walking in a river and jumping from one rock to another, and basically said as long as there were no rocks that could hit my head, the camera takes priority over my whole body. So this would be a nice safety issue for me. I also shoot waterfalls and they sometimes spray tiny droplets so it would be nice to use then too.

Someone on the FZ1000 Facebook group just asked "what lenses do you guys use with this camera"? Time to leave it I think

[MattH]

Appears to be 5 minutes also for XAVC S, 100/120P, see page 233 in the .pdf manual.

​Thanks for the info.   That's what I thought then.  100/120p is actually better quality than 1080 25p and 50p.

[agolex]

it' a water-sealed bridge (if i am not wrong). 

​I don't think it has any weather sealing, there's nothing about that on the official pages. I kinda doubt any consumer Sony camera has weather sealing.  http://tobinators.com/blog/index.php/2014/04/everything-else/sony-a7r-in-not-weatherproof-shock/ Found this here.

Anyhow, I just got mine and it's really a nice All-in-one package, liking it very much thus far. Unfortunately, the otherwise great remote app (best picture quality of all the apps by far) doesn't allow you to use a Picture Profile. Filed a feature request in the beginning of 2015 when I got an a7s, but naturally nothing has happened, yet. Wanted to use the camera for Vlogging as well, but now I can see that the RX100 IV would have been a better choice due to the fully tiltable display. Otherwise, it handles really well, the stabilization goes a long way and I feel that the handling is getting better (I hated the a7s ergonomics, but this thing now I think is quite nice).

Lightroom doesn't support the new RAW format yet, so I'll have to wait to judge stills quality, but video sure is sweet. Perhaps they're working on uncompressed stills finally and that's why it's not working anymore.

Here's a little Slomo clip I've just shot (pimped it a bit in Premiere):

 

[mickachiste]

​I don't think it has any weather sealing, there's nothing about that on the official pages. I kinda doubt any consumer Sony camera has weather sealing.  http://tobinators.com/blog/index.php/2014/04/everything-else/sony-a7r-in-not-weatherproof-shock/ Found this here.

Anyhow, I just got mine and it's really a nice All-in-one package, liking it very much thus far. Unfortunately, the otherwise great remote app (best picture quality of all the apps by far) doesn't allow you to use a Picture Profile. Filed a feature request in the beginning of 2015 when I got an a7s, but naturally nothing has happened, yet. Wanted to use the camera for Vlogging as well, but now I can see that the RX100 IV would have been a better choice due to the fully tiltable display. Otherwise, it handles really well, the stabilization goes a long way and I feel that the handling is getting better (I hated the a7s ergonomics, but this thing now I think is quite nice).

Lightroom doesn't support the new RAW format yet, so I'll have to wait to judge stills quality, but video sure is sweet. Perhaps they're working on uncompressed stills finally and that's why it's not working anymore.

Here's a little Slomo clip I've just shot (pimped it a bit in Premiere):

 

​Oh ok ! Well can you have a look at the numerical zoom ? The panasonic one is really good but what about sony ?