Why Canon is Still Top Dog

[sanveer]

After Andrew's satire on what is wrong with Canon (Titled "The Canon fight back begins - with a box"), I thought about it, and I want people to try and help figure out, Why Canon is Still No.1 for Stills and Video, and why it may still be, for a while to come.
This my opinion, regarding the same:

 

1. I believe Panasonic and Sony are just not out there, with their prosumer range, and most of Panasonic' 'G', 'GX' and 'GH' line is not available in most local markets around the world (the GH4 being, arguably the sole exception). The same applies to Sony and their prosumer range. Basically, their supply chain is very disappointing, for the prosumer range, anywhere outside the US and a few markets in Europe. Which is speaks poorly about their Marketing Teams, since the potential for growth in Markets like Asia is arguably far greater than markets like the US and Europe which are growing too slowly in comparison. 
2. Most DoPs/ Cinematographers, who are famous and who use their own gear, actually use the Canon Cinema Line of cameras (C300s mostly). Some do use the A7S for low light (obviously) and the GH4, but those are very few.
3. Sony and Panasonic don't make some super cheap glass like the Canon 50mm f1.8 (Panasonic is apparently planning to make some super cheap 25mm f1.7), which creates and ecosystem around their cameras. While almost every lens can be adapted to the M4/3rd system, a lot of people still need autofocus lenses, especially for stills. 
4. H.264 is still the codec of choice for most of the world. H.265 and (and even versions of H.264 like XAVC-S) are still not as popular and compatible as one hopes. 
5. While the GH4 with its very unusually designed and terribly cumbersome "Yagh" Rig tried to bring in some of the features of the Cinema Line of the Canon into the GH4, on the whole the bracket was grossly overpriced (it has now crashed to $698 now, from a price which was more than the GH4 itself previously) and just too bulky. Sony does a much better job with the XLR-K2M kit, which I still feel, can be made a lot more suitable to the design of DSLRs.
6. I still haven't understood why Panasonic chose Nick Driftwood for testing the G7 instead of Andrew Reid or Vitaly or Philip Bloom. What I am trying to say is that, since they have a much larger following, why would Panasonic not try and do their homework well, before taking it forward in advertising and marketing.

I must repeat the first point again. The supply chain and even lenses for cameras are very poorly available in emerging markets which has very high disposable incomes, for the last few years. By not exploring and tapping these markets, Sony and Panasonic are actually make a huge mistake.

 

[Amro Othman]

The main reason Canon is still popular is because:

 

- Riding on their strong name and reputation.

- EF lens system is very popular and widespread.

- Colour science makes photos and videos look good straight out of camera, like skin tones etc.

 

Apart from that, for the money, their camera tech is old and boring as f***

[Jimmy]

Canon are top dog because the have, arguably, the best DSLR system for stills (cameras, lens and global service).

They shouldn't be getting anywhere in the video side of things (DSLR wise)... But that name carries alot of sway... Back it up with good marketing and worldwide reach/customer service and they will come out on top. They make shed loads from this fact, so quite why there is such a constant surprise that they don't change the world with every camera is beyond me.

The competitors have to be aggressive to combat Canon/Nikon's big name/reputation, so will always be pushing the tech much harder (some also have 4K TVs to promote).

I will never get the fuss about Canon/Nikon not doing this, not doing that etc etc..... Just buy something else, so simple. Even if you are invested in their glass, Both lens systems generally work with most cameras, with an adapter.

[tugela]

After Andrew's satire on what is wrong with Canon (Titled "The Canon fight back begins - with a box"), I thought about it, and I want people to try and help figure out, Why Canon is Still No.1 for Stills and Video, and why it may still be, for a while to come.
This my opinion, regarding the same:

 

1. I believe Panasonic and Sony are just not out there, with their prosumer range, and most of Panasonic' 'G', 'GX' and 'GH' line is not available in most local markets around the world (the GH4 being, arguably the sole exception). The same applies to Sony and their prosumer range. Basically, their supply chain is very disappointing, for the prosumer range, anywhere outside the US and a few markets in Europe. Which is speaks poorly about their Marketing Teams, since the potential for growth in Markets like Asia is arguably far greater than markets like the US and Europe which are growing too slowly in comparison. 
2. Most DoPs/ Cinematographers, who are famous and who use their own gear, actually use the Canon Cinema Line of cameras (C300s mostly). Some do use the A7S for low light (obviously) and the GH4, but those are very few.
3. Sony and Panasonic don't make some super cheap glass like the Canon 50mm f1.8 (Panasonic is apparently planning to make some super cheap 25mm f1.7), which creates and ecosystem around their cameras. While almost every lens can be adapted to the M4/3rd system, a lot of people still need autofocus lenses, especially for stills. 
4. H.264 is still the codec of choice for most of the world. H.265 and (and even versions of H.264 like XAVC-S) are still not as popular and compatible as one hopes. 
5. While the GH4 with its very unusually designed and terribly cumbersome "Yagh" Rig tried to bring in some of the features of the Cinema Line of the Canon into the GH4, on the whole the bracket was grossly overpriced (it has now crashed to $698 now, from a price which was more than the GH4 itself previously) and just too bulky. Sony does a much better job with the XLR-K2M kit, which I still feel, can be made a lot more suitable to the design of DSLRs.
6. I still haven't understood why Panasonic chose Nick Driftwood for testing the G7 instead of Andrew Reid or Vitaly or Philip Bloom. What I am trying to say is that, since they have a much larger following, why would Panasonic not try and do their homework well, before taking it forward in advertising and marketing.

I must repeat the first point again. The supply chain and even lenses for cameras are very poorly available in emerging markets which has very high disposable incomes, for the last few years. By not exploring and tapping these markets, Sony and Panasonic are actually make a huge mistake.

 

​1. Saying that Panasonic and Sony are not out there is incorrect. Their products are stocked in most camera stores where I live. And even if you can't get a particular item off the shelf, they will all order it in for you without much delay.

2. Cameras like the GH4 are prosumer products. The people who buy them generally can't afford things like a C300M2, which is a hell of a lot more expensive.

3. What is the difference between "super cheap" and "cheap". If someone is paying $1500 for a camera body, they generally are not going to mind paying a few dollars more for a lens. And the Canon 50mm F1.8 isn't that great btw, I have one so I know. If you wanted to use a cheap Canon lens you are probably better off with the 40mm pancake, it is a better lens, although twice the price.

4. Transcoding isn't a problem. Some editors can't handle the newer codecs, but then again some can't handle Canon's newer codecs either.

5. The GH4 (and cameras like it) weren't designed to be competitors for full spec pro cameras, they were designed to be hybrids. If you want to compare the C cameras to the GH4, how good are their stills?

[gelaxstudio]

But we are living in a internet era，which online shops  are easily get access to，and informations exchanges are easy and quicky 

I think your points mostly are superficial understandings

Before Canon make C300 ，sony already played a lot games in filmmaking and  broadcasting，not to mention now 4K broadcasting are mostly done by sony

And don't forget sony has its own film company（the Sony Pictures Entertainment）

Movies like the new Spider Man series 、New 007 Series ，as well as the in-coming  Ex Machina and Pixels were all produced by sony.

So what u think is not what most cinematographers will accept！

 

 

 

[Andrew Reid]

After Andrew's satire on what is wrong with Canon (Titled "The Canon fight back begins - with a box"), I thought about it, and I want people to try and help figure out, Why Canon is Still No.1 for Stills and Video, and why it may still be, for a while to come.
This my opinion, regarding the same:

1. I believe Panasonic and Sony are just not out there, with their prosumer range, and most of Panasonic' 'G', 'GX' and 'GH' line is not available in most local markets around the world (the GH4 being, arguably the sole exception). The same applies to Sony and their prosumer range. Basically, their supply chain is very disappointing, for the prosumer range, anywhere outside the US and a few markets in Europe. Which is speaks poorly about their Marketing Teams, since the potential for growth in Markets like Asia is arguably far greater than markets like the US and Europe which are growing too slowly in comparison.

Last time I was in Shanghai, Tapei, Tokyo, they had a better prosumer stock range than Manchester, UK.

And mirrorless is many many times more popular in Asia than it is the US.

2. Most DoPs/ Cinematographers, who are famous and who use their own gear, actually use the Canon Cinema Line of cameras (C300s mostly). Some do use the A7S for low light (obviously) and the GH4, but those are very few.

Cinema EOS did make good inroads there, you're right.

But we're talking DSLRs and plenty of people buy Nikon DSLRs for video instead of superior mirrorless models by Sony - and Nikon don't have a cinema range. So I'm a bit sceptical how much influence 'famous DPs' have on mass market sales.

3. Sony and Panasonic don't make some super cheap glass like the Canon 50mm f1.8 (Panasonic is apparently planning to make some super cheap 25mm f1.7), which creates and ecosystem around their cameras. While almost every lens can be adapted to the M4/3rd system, a lot of people still need autofocus lenses, especially for stills.

Yeah the mirrorless lenses are too expensive, which hasn't helped their adoption.

But the main problem is they are not universally mountable whereas Canon and Nikon glass can be used on all kinds of mounts other than the native ones they were designed for.

Olympus 45mm F1.8 and Samsung 30mm F2.0 are great cheap AF mirrorless lenses but there needs to be more variety.

Then again... if you look at Canon's pricing of fast primes, they're not exactly cheap either...aside from the 40mm F2.8 pancake, 24mm F2.8 STM and 50mm F1.8 STM what is there?

4. H.264 is still the codec of choice for most of the world. H.265 and (and even versions of H.264 like XAVC-S) are still not as popular and compatible as one hopes.

It would help Sony a great deal if they put the damn XAVC MP4 files in the stills folder. The whole PRIVATE/CLIPS thing is terrible for the end user.

Also they make such poor use of that folder structure in terms of the reason it exists in the first place... meta data.

There's 720p res thumbnails lying around unused by the camera... XML files with barely anything in them, no ISO, no focal length, just very basic clip info.

If we are going to go through the whole AVCHD / XAVC hell rather than just H.264 in a Quicktime MOV file along with the JPEGs... at least give us SOME end-user benefit!!

5. While the GH4 with its very unusually designed and terribly cumbersome "Yagh" Rig tried to bring in some of the features of the Cinema Line of the Canon into the GH4, on the whole the bracket was grossly overpriced (it has now crashed to $698 now, from a price which was more than the GH4 itself previously) and just too bulky. Sony does a much better job with the XLR-K2M kit, which I still feel, can be made a lot more suitable to the design of DSLRs.

YAGH was a good idea badly implemented.

You could tell right from the start it was a terrible design.

Basically a lump of plastic with some connections.

It could have been so much more. It should have been a battery grip with room for 3 or 4 Panasonic batteries in it. Why they decided to make it require external power from a V-lock battery I will never know... maybe they listened to too many Arri users!? Not everyone wants to rig up a GH4 into a monster.

So as a useful battery grip that extends the battery life of the already very long-running GH4, they could have then simply added the pro interfaces. XLR, HD-SDI and so on.

Also the camera should have communicated with it through the base of the unit and not via a bridge connected to the HDMI port which blocked the screen from rotating.

6. I still haven't understood why Panasonic chose Nick Driftwood for testing the G7 instead of Andrew Reid or Vitaly or Philip Bloom. What I am trying to say is that, since they have a much larger following, why would Panasonic not try and do their homework well, before taking it forward in advertising and marketing.

Nick seems like a nice guy, you can't say he hasn't achieved a great scoop in doing the V-log testing and getting the G7 so early. He is clearly very close to the Panasonic guys in the UK. I am not because I am in Berlin so I have to deal with Panasonic through their German team. This team has unfortunately not reached out in recent years. I only had the GH4 early because of my friend Frank Sauer, a filmmaker quite high up the ladder as a pro in Germany. They gave the unit to him instead.

Let's be clear even though this might sound like I'm blowing my own trumpet. Nobody has done more to popularise and inform people about the GH line than EOSHD.

I think the way Panasonic have treated me in return has been a massive let down. Even had to pay for my own taxi when I visited them in Hamburg for the GH4 unveiling.

There seems to be a prioritising of the printed press magazines over bloggers. It's the wrong way round in 2015.

​But to be honest on my part I have not reached out as far or as vigorously as I could have. Building personal relationships with marketing people, engineers, product planners and ambassadors at the manufacturers is as bad for impartiality and outspokenness as it would be being paid to write positive reviews.

You always see this ethics statements these days saying they have not been paid for a review, etc, etc. But they ARE best friends with the marketing bloke who just plonked their baby in their hands for them... if anything that personal relationship is even more powerful than being paid off.

I do not want to get too close, lest EOSHD loses its honest edge and drowns in cool-aid.

Also going out and buying cameras is really satisfying and allows you to go in depth with them for months and years, writing the guides and all sorts of other benefits. I would not be able to do that if I had to rely on my 'mates at Panasonic' to send me a loan unit for a week.

What I WOULD like however is a technical working relationship, beta testing new firmware and suggesting new product features. Regular feedback meetings in Berlin (had one before the GH4 came out) would be a start. V-LOG should have been on the blog and in my hands. I should have been given something to write about and they could have encouraged the already very extensive GH coverage with a few scoops - like a visit to the factory in Japan for example or other activities which would have made for interesting features for you guys to read. But again, it's not my top priority. My filmmaking is. If they ever get a clue I'd consider putting the time into it, but these relationships are usually all a bit one sided - i.e. firmly to the advantage of the manufacturer and their sales.

I must repeat the first point again. The supply chain and even lenses for cameras are very poorly available in emerging markets which has very high disposable incomes, for the last few years. By not exploring and tapping these markets, Sony and Panasonic are actually make a huge mistake.

Again, ​I think they ARE tapping these markets but I agree on most of your other points!

[Andrew Reid]

The other point about product ambassadors is this...

If Panasonic can't find big names to shoot for them, it might be because the big names are all using Canon & Nikon.

They had a chance due to the sheer quality of the GH4 as a filmmaking tool to get a big filmmaking name to use it... but for some reason it didn't happen. A big failing if you ask me... and not the first time their marketing teams have failed to exploit an interesting situation.

They had Upstream Color, the breakout sci-fi smash hit shot on the GH2 in almost all cinemas coast to coast the US. What did they do to highlight that? F**k all!

COME ON! get a clue!

[jax_rox]

 

Most DoPs/ Cinematographers, who are famous and who use their own gear, actually use the Canon Cinema Line of cameras (C300s mostly). Some do use the A7S for low light (obviously) and the GH4, but those are very few

Not sure where you've gotten this idea from, but it's not really true.

 

H.264 is still the codec of choice for most of the world. H.265 and (and even versions of H.264 like XAVC-S) are still not as popular and compatible as one hopes. 

This is also incorrect. H.264 is sometimes used as a delivery codec for web and the like, but H.264 is the wrong choice as an acquisition codec. The most popular acquisition format amongst people who are high-end professionals (and not just amateurs, or 'souped-up amateurs') is ProRes, closely followed by DNxHR/DNxHD.

 

I still haven't understood why Panasonic chose Nick Driftwood for testing the G7 instead of Andrew Reid or Vitaly or Philip Bloom. What I am trying to say is that, since they have a much larger following, why would Panasonic not try and do their homework well, before taking it forward in advertising and marketing.

​He's the guy who hacked the GH2 - why not use him? He obviously has a following amongst Panasonic users! You could easily say the same thing about Blackmagic and John Brawley. John Brawley is a great DP, and pretty well-known in Australia, but do many know him around the world? You could've easily said 'why did Blackmagic get John Brawley to test the BMCC instead of Andrew Reid or Philip Bloom'.

You're right about Sony's lens ecosystem. It's not too bad if you have the money to invest in the Zeiss glass (and it is great glass), but there's not a lot of cheap full frame options (though in saying that, there's not a huge amount of cheap full frame Canon glass). I personally think the Sony/Zeiss glass is much better glass than Canon L, but I do think the fly-by-wire focus was a mistake. It sounds like an engineer's decision (how good would it be if...) rather than a professional shooter (either video or stills).

Your points are more hearsay and subjective opinion than anything.

Canon are not 'top dog' in the professional film industry. They make pro-sumer cameras that are pretty good for docos, and a cheap options for productions that simply don't have the budget for much else. There's not a huge amount of Hollywood films using a Canon camera as their A-cam.

Canon are top dog in the stills world because of the history of their name, and the fact that they still make very good stills cameras. They may be completely outspecced by other manufacturers in regards to video - but if I was choosing a camera solely for shooting stills, I would be looking at Canon vs Nikon, rather than Canon vs Sony, Canon vs Panasonic etc.

[Andrew Reid]

Canon are not 'top dog' in the professional film industry. They make pro-sumer cameras that are pretty good for docos, and a cheap options for productions that simply don't have the budget for much else. There's not a huge amount of Hollywood films using a Canon camera as their A-cam.

​Of course Arri are top dog in the professional film industry as in the top end of it...

But don't under estimate Cinema EOS's impact in the professional VIDEO and broadcast industry. C300 is one of the most rented cameras by video pros of all time and the BBC use it on a regular basis for run & gun on flagship programs.

The C300 is the Shallow DOF ENG king.

And to be honest it isn't the right tool for the job. A smaller chip is. I don't like being unable to see the background in a news program or a documentary. You lose the sense of location and all the handheld roll and yaw make me sick when combined with shallow DOF. The BBC should go back to proper ENG cams.

[Andrew Reid]

​He's the guy who hacked the GH2 - why not use him? He obviously has a following amongst Panasonic users!

​Not sure if you are joking or not But obviously Vitaliy would be the wrong choice. First of all Panasonic need someone with broad appeal to consumers, a celebrity Hollywood filmmaker or TV filmmaker. Give one to Louis Theroux for example. Secondly Panasonic need an actual shooter. Vitaly does not shoot. He rants politics on a BBS. And finally, there's no point preaching to the converted. The GH2 hacker has a small loyal following of existing Lumix users. He is not going to win Panasonic many more new customers, just maybe convince the old ones to stay interested.... or at least he would do if he came out with another hack rather than another anti-US bullshit Putin rant

[jax_rox]

But don't under estimate Cinema EOS's impact in the professional VIDEO and broadcast industry. C300 is one of the most rented cameras by video pros of all time and the BBC use it on a regular basis for run & gun on flagship programs.

The C300 is the Shallow DOF ENG king.

And to be honest it isn't the right tool for the job. A smaller chip is. I don't like being unable to see the background in a news program or a documentary. You lose the sense of location and all the handheld roll and yaw make me sick when combined with shallow DOF. The BBC should go back to proper ENG cams.

​I know the C300 found its market, but it's not quite correct to state that most cinematographers use the C300...

​Not sure if you are joking or not But obviously Vitaliy would be the wrong choice. First of all Panasonic need someone with broad appeal to consumers, a celebrity Hollywood filmmaker or TV filmmaker. Give one to Louis Theroux for example. Secondly Panasonic need an actual shooter. Vitaly does not shoot. He rants politics on a BBS. And finally, there's no point preaching to the converted. The GH2 hacker has a small loyal following of existing Lumix users. He is not going to win Panasonic many more new customers, just maybe convince the old ones to stay interested.... or at least he would do if he came out with another hack rather than another anti-US bullshit Putin rant

​I often wonder if Canon and Arri (and RED to some extent - at least in creating hype) are the only companies who really know how to market a camera.

Sony tried their darndest with the F5/55 and it ended up with little short films that had clipped highlights, an average grade and squashed dynamic range - not at all reflective of how either camera actually handles. Panasonic's Varicam reel was nice looking, but I haven't seen or heard anything since. The latest demo shoots from Sony (for FS7, A7rII etc) are average, and do little to really show off the cameras abilities.
 Even the official A7s demo footage I saw was so-so. Why weren't Sony the first ones to go 'let's shoot a short film at 2am using moonlight as our only light source to show this camera off'? Why not send out some pre-production models to some big productions and see how they put them to use? Sure, the Canon 5DmkII revolution kinda grew organically, but times have changed!

[Nikkor]

 

And to be honest it isn't the right tool for the job. A smaller chip is. I don't like being unable to see the background in a news program or a documentary. You lose the sense of location and all the handheld roll and yaw make me sick when combined with shallow DOF. The BBC should go back to proper ENG cams.

This deserves an article. I've been staying at my parents for the summer and they have german television over satellite. I haven't watched TV for years and I was shocked by the fact that every documental is now a shallow dof hell shot wih the 24 1.4 full open all the time.

Also watching the "tatort" after many years and it looks awful. Not because of DOF but because the new generation of camera operators and editors don't seem to know what they are doing. You will say, german television, but if you see older stuff shot on film it's much more professional.

[Andrew Reid]

This deserves an article. I've been staying at my parents for the summer and they have german television over satellite. I haven't watched TV for years and I was shocked by the fact that every documental is now a shallow dof hell shot wih the 24 1.4 full open all the time.

​Aye... it is horrible.

Wrong look for that kind of thing.

[AaronChicago]

​I know the C300 found its market, but it's not quite correct to state that most cinematographers use the C300...

​While it's hard to know an exact number, since we don't all have access to popular cinematographers gear list, I would say that "almost" everytime I watch a Q&A with a famous or semi-famous DP they talk about their personal collection and Canon is always mentioned. I think it's just brand awareness in the industry. I'd bet most DPs don't sit around and research the latest prosumer options.

[Jimmy]

The worst camera work I have seen for a long time was when David Attenborough met Obama, shown a few weeks ago.... The DOF was razor thin and every time he moved even an inch, he went out of focus.

Hope someone got fired for that.

[Nikkor]

The worst camera work I have seen for a long time was when David Attenborough met Obama, shown a few weeks ago.... The DOF was razor thin and every time he moved even an inch, he went out of focus.

Hope someone got fired for that.

​And what about the pinkish skin and the crushed blacks. Bobama looks southeast asian.

[sanveer]

The replies are so many, but lemme try:

 

​1. Saying that Panasonic and Sony are not out there is incorrect. Their products are stocked in most camera stores where I live. And even if you can't get a particular item off the shelf, they will all order it in for you without much delay.

2. Cameras like the GH4 are prosumer products. The people who buy them generally can't afford things like a C300M2, which is a hell of a lot more expensive.

3. What is the difference between "super cheap" and "cheap". If someone is paying $1500 for a camera body, they generally are not going to mind paying a few dollars more for a lens. And the Canon 50mm F1.8 isn't that great btw, I have one so I know. If you wanted to use a cheap Canon lens you are probably better off with the 40mm pancake, it is a better lens, although twice the price.

4. Transcoding isn't a problem. Some editors can't handle the newer codecs, but then again some can't handle Canon's newer codecs either.

5. The GH4 (and cameras like it) weren't designed to be competitors for full spec pro cameras, they were designed to be hybrids. If you want to compare the C cameras to the GH4, how good are their stills?

​

1. I still maintain, that the comparison of Canon and Panasonic/ Sony DSLRs/ DSLMs is very noticeable, at most places around the world, in terms of availability. Naming 1-2 cities, or even 10 cities around the world would not serve as yardstick for this. Also, prices noticeably more than Top US retailers like B&H and Adorama should also be a deciding factor. 

4. I don't agree. How many Canons, except the C line and the XC10 use different codecs? 

5. The Mirrorless cameras were designed as a competition to everything and everyone, though they started out as interchangeable lens cameras and rangefinders. 

 

 

But we are living in a internet era，which online shops  are easily get access to，and informations exchanges are easy and quicky 

I think your points mostly are superficial understandings

Before Canon make C300 ，sony already played a lot games in filmmaking and  broadcasting，not to mention now 4K broadcasting are mostly done by sony

And don't forget sony has its own film company（the Sony Pictures Entertainment）

Movies like the new Spider Man series 、New 007 Series ，as well as the in-coming  Ex Machina and Pixels were all produced by sony.

So what u think is not what most cinematographers will accept！

 

 

 

​

If you believe that having online retail guarantees buying, whether a product is available in a particular jurisdiction or not, then you haven't quite figured out the very prpose of online retailing. Like Mr. Saawavi stated, in places like Egypt, they can pick up almost all equipment, even if unavailable in the local market, with a few 100% as duty. That doesn't make sense. Not to mention after sales etc etc.

You have mentioned all these movies. Could you please mention what films were shot on what cameras (Hint: Skyfall was hot in the Alexa). 

I don't understand why you co-related what I think and what cinematographers accept. 

 

Last time I was in Shanghai, Tapei, Tokyo, they had a better prosumer stock range than Manchester, UK.

And mirrorless is many many times more popular in Asia than it is the US.

Cinema EOS did make good inroads there, you're right.

But we're talking DSLRs and plenty of people buy Nikon DSLRs for video instead of superior mirrorless models by Sony - and Nikon don't have a cinema range. So I'm a bit sceptical how much influence 'famous DPs' have on mass market sales.

 

​I guess Shanghai may have better cameras and accessories (both genuine ones as well as fakes), since China manufactures for most of the big names and except for some serious high end cameras most cameras in the prosumer range are made in China.

I guess a lot of assistance who work with DoPs on Film and Tv are the ones who move on buying their own gear, eventually, and since they use the C Line of Canon, along with the 5Ds.

YAGH was a good idea badly implemented.

You could tell right from the start it was a terrible design.

Basically a lump of plastic with some connections.

It could have been so much more. It should have been a battery grip with room for 3 or 4 Panasonic batteries in it. Why they decided to make it require external power from a V-lock battery I will never know... maybe they listened to too many Arri users!? Not everyone wants to rig up a GH4 into a monster.

So as a useful battery grip that extends the battery life of the already very long-running GH4, they could have then simply added the pro interfaces. XLR, HD-SDI and so on.

Also the camera should have communicated with it through the base of the unit and not via a bridge connected to the HDMI port which blocked the screen from rotating.

 

​

I agree, the Yagh thing

What I WOULD like however is a technical working relationship, beta testing new firmware and suggesting new product features. Regular feedback meetings in Berlin (had one before the GH4 came out) would be a start. V-LOG should have been on the blog and in my hands. I should have been given something to write about and they could have encouraged the already very extensive GH coverage with a few scoops - like a visit to the factory in Japan for example or other activities which would have made for interesting features for you guys to read. But again, it's not my top priority. My filmmaking is. If they ever get a clue I'd consider putting the time into it, but these relationships are usually all a bit one sided - i.e. firmly to the advantage of the manufacturer and their sales.

​

I agree, the Yagh unit was just so weird. I had the opportunity to meet the Panasonic team in Mumbai. I met the marketing head (some Japanese gentleman whose name I don't recall). I told him the Yagh thing was doomed from the start. I said, if they could have put a small LCD which displayed what exactly was happening, along with a good preamp, a battery unit and a dual memory card slot for 10 Bit 4-2-2, it would have been a runaway success. Hahaha, he was so positive about everything, that he was actually making notes. The Japanese are seriously a class act. 

 

The other point about product ambassadors is this...

If Panasonic can't find big names to shoot for them, it might be because the big names are all using Canon & Nikon.

They had a chance due to the sheer quality of the GH4 as a filmmaking tool to get a big filmmaking name to use it... but for some reason it didn't happen. A big failing if you ask me... and not the first time their marketing teams have failed to exploit an interesting situation.

They had Upstream Color, the breakout sci-fi smash hit shot on the GH2 in almost all cinemas coast to coast the US. What did they do to highlight that? F**k all!

COME ON! get a clue!

​

I couldn't agree more. Panasonic did nothing to market the whole "Upstream Color" bit. 
 

Even with the GH4, if Panasonic supplied 10 Units of the GH4 or other cameras ONLY for the purpose of shooting indies, even if they gave them out for 2-3 months each, that itself would have generated enough free publicity for them. I must say, that Panasonic needs to work on Publicity for the Prosumer marker from a completely different perspective. 

Not sure where you've gotten this idea from, but it's not really true.

This is also incorrect. H.264 is sometimes used as a delivery codec for web and the like, but H.264 is the wrong choice as an acquisition codec. The most popular acquisition format amongst people who are high-end professionals (and not just amateurs, or 'souped-up amateurs') is ProRes, closely followed by DNxHR/DNxHD.

​He's the guy who hacked the GH2 - why not use him? He obviously has a following amongst Panasonic users! You could easily say the same thing about Blackmagic and John Brawley. John Brawley is a great DP, and pretty well-known in Australia, but do many know him around the world? You could've easily said 'why did Blackmagic get John Brawley to test the BMCC instead of Andrew Reid or Philip Bloom'.

You're right about Sony's lens ecosystem. It's not too bad if you have the money to invest in the Zeiss glass (and it is great glass), but there's not a lot of cheap full frame options (though in saying that, there's not a huge amount of cheap full frame Canon glass). I personally think the Sony/Zeiss glass is much better glass than Canon L, but I do think the fly-by-wire focus was a mistake. It sounds like an engineer's decision (how good would it be if...) rather than a professional shooter (either video or stills).

Your points are more hearsay and subjective opinion than anything.

Canon are not 'top dog' in the professional film industry. They make pro-sumer cameras that are pretty good for docos, and a cheap options for productions that simply don't have the budget for much else. There's not a huge amount of Hollywood films using a Canon camera as their A-cam.

Canon are top dog in the stills world because of the history of their name, and the fact that they still make very good stills cameras. They may be completely outspecced by other manufacturers in regards to video - but if I was choosing a camera solely for shooting stills, I would be looking at Canon vs Nikon, rather than Canon vs Sony, Canon vs Panasonic etc.

​You are not reading the points, and replying to imaginary ones. That's why it doesn't even make sense. 

Most TV productions use the C300 and the 5Ds apart from the REDs and the Arris. 

BlackMagic did not use Philip Bloom, since Philip Bloom was shooting for the GH3. Anyway, we are talking wrt to about Mirrorless Cameras and not BlackMagic. Dude, you've gone into a different zone. Dude, Read the Posts. 

Nikon actually have better specs than Canon, and Sony has some great specs too. It is not solely about specs.

 

 

 

[sanveer]

 Instead of figuring out what the shortcomings may be and how can they be capped, people like gelaxstudio and  jax_rox have on their own tangents. They say anything. They would probably even deny that the Cinema Series Line of Canon even exists. 

It's Unbelievable !!!

 

[IronFilm]

1. I believe Panasonic and Sony are just not out there, with their prosumer range, and most of Panasonic' 'G', 'GX' and 'GH' line is not available in most local markets around the world (the GH4 being, arguably the sole exception). The same applies to Sony and their prosumer range. Basically, their supply chain is very disappointing, for the prosumer range, anywhere outside the US and a few markets in Europe. Which is speaks poorly about their Marketing Teams, since the potential for growth in Markets like Asia is arguably far greater than markets like the US and Europe which are growing too slowly in comparison. 

Agree, supply/chain marketing is a big problem. Far far far too few stores have Sony/Samsung/Panasonic high end camera in stock.

 

1. Most DoPs/ Cinematographers, who are famous and who use their own gear, actually use the Canon Cinema Line of cameras (C300s mostly). Some do use the A7S for low light (obviously) and the GH4, but those are very few.
2. While the GH4 with its very unusually designed and terribly cumbersome "Yagh" Rig tried to bring in some of the features of the Cinema Line of the Canon into the GH4, on the whole the bracket was grossly overpriced (it has now crashed to $698 now, from a price which was more than the GH4 itself previously) and just too bulky. Sony does a much better job with the XLR-K2M kit, which I still feel, can be made a lot more suitable to the design of DSLRs.

The best solution to both of those points is for Sony and Panasonic to update their current entry level large sensor camcorders. It wouldn't take much! (so long as the price is right)

For Panasonic: simple put the GH4 sensor in the AF100 (and bring along a few of its features too, such as focus peaking).
For Sony: add ND filters to the FS100 and make it the more ergonomic design of the FS7 instead of the awkward FS100. (heck, you can even keep the old specs and sensor of the FS100 if you just make those two small changes I suggested! So long as the price is right, and it is priced similar to the FS100 is now and much less than a C100),

These are not overly ambitious suggestions.

But it means for  a much better solution than YAGH or XLR-K2M, and means there will be many more people  who when they move on up to a higher pro level than DSLR shooting can have as their first stepping stone an AF200 or FS200. Thus both your points with can easily be dealt with at once with my very modest suggestion.

​

[sanveer]

Agree, supply/chain marketing is a big problem. Far far far too few stores have Sony/Samsung/Panasonic high end camera in stock.

 

The best solution to both of those points is for Sony and Panasonic to update their current entry level large sensor camcorders. It wouldn't take much! (so long as the price is right)

For Panasonic: simple put the GH4 sensor in the AF100 (and bring along a few of its features too, such as focus peaking).
For Sony: add ND filters to the FS100 and make it the more ergonomic design of the FS7 instead of the awkward FS100. (heck, you can even keep the old specs and sensor of the FS100 if you just make those two small changes I suggested! So long as the price is right, and it is priced similar to the FS100 is now and much less than a C100),

These are not overly ambitious suggestions.

But it means for  a much better solution than YAGH or XLR-K2M, and means there will be many more people  who when they move on up to a higher pro level than DSLR shooting can have as their first stepping stone an AF200 or FS200. Thus both your points with can easily be dealt with at once with my very modest suggestion.

​

​Interesting suggestions. Especially considering that the lower end of cameras actually dictates the majority of sales. I kind of agree with your suggestions.