21 ways the Canon 1D C trumps the Sony A7S

[Mattias Burling]

 Yes but compare apples to apples... This camera is $8k compared to $2.5. Why not compare it to the Ursa Mini, the Kinefinity Max, the FS7 or Cion?

One thing is true of the Canon... The resale value sucks... Spend $8k today and it's immediately worth $4k tomorrow. I'll pass. But to those that are so desperate to get one, they're in stock new... Knock yourself out.

 

 

You can compare whatever you want. An Alexa is crap compared to a 1DC and the 1DC is worse than my phone. 

Depending on who you ask.

Same with resale value. I could buy and sell a 1DC and turn profit. It's all depending on who you ask.

 

[DBounce]

You can compare whatever you want. An Alexa is crap compared to a 1DC and the 1DC is worse than my phone. 

Depending on who you ask.

Same with resale value. I could buy and sell a 1DC and turn profit. It's all depending on who you ask.

 

 Now you're just being silly. Whatever...

[jagnje]

I used to love to be here and read about new stuff, but this canon vs xxxx is getting old.

Canon makes some great video cameras we all know that, or else there would not be any of these discusion. The thing that gets people mad is that then want you to pay the price for great picture...retarded isn`t it?!?!? if lets say the canon cinema line along with the 1dc would cost as much as the a7s, gh4, nx1...who would own one? just about everybody here I`m sure and there would be nothing but praises about it. but it`s doesnt cost that so...

so, you want a mercedes slr amg but don`t want to pay that much? well, you can still have a mercedes for a fraction of the cost but it will not do what the amg does. so what do you do? well, you can buy a subaru impreza wrx, it will get you round the track faster, but It`s not an SLR... you pay for such things.  

[Jimmy]

People do seem to forget that the best image generally comes at the highest price.

The Alexa is woefully underspecced/overpriced compared to the latest RED dragon, even the FS7 in many repescts... but the end image quality is still considered better for alot of DP/Directors... So they pay the price. (Obviously not suggesting the 1DC is comparable to the Alexa).

Canon, arguably, still have the DSLR with the best end image quality, and it has the highest price. We would all love a 1DC at NX1 pricing, we would all like an Alexa at FS7 pricing... But i'm not sure it is fair to cry to hard that the DSLR with the nicest image costs the most... Seems fairly logical.

[DBounce]

People do seem to forget that the best image generally comes at the highest price.

The Alexa is woefully underspecced/overpriced compared to the latest RED dragon, even the FS7 in many repescts... but the end image quality is still considered better for alot of DP/Directors... So they pay the price. (Obviously not suggesting the 1DC is comparable to the Alexa).

Canon, arguably, still have the DSLR with the best end image quality, and it has the highest price. We would all love a 1DC at NX1 pricing, we would all like an Alexa at FS7 pricing... But i'm not sure it is fair to cry to hard that the DSLR with the nicest image costs the most... Seems fairly logical.

 Agreed. Comparing the A7s to a camera that cost more than 3x as much is pointless. It makes more sense to compare the c300 mkii to the 1DC, after all, that only cost twice as much.

[Oliver Daniel]

People do seem to forget that the best image generally comes at the highest price.

The Alexa is woefully underspecced/overpriced compared to the latest RED dragon, even the FS7 in many repescts... but the end image quality is still considered better for alot of DP/Directors... So they pay the price. (Obviously not suggesting the 1DC is comparable to the Alexa).

Canon, arguably, still have the DSLR with the best end image quality, and it has the highest price. We would all love a 1DC at NX1 pricing, we would all like an Alexa at FS7 pricing... But i'm not sure it is fair to cry to hard that the DSLR with the nicest image costs the most... Seems fairly logical.

The small amount of stuff I've shot on the RED Epic has 20x better image quality than my DSLR stuff, about 10x better than my FS700/FS7 stuff. (That said, the content I shot on the Epic pales in comparison to the others!). 

It's easy to understand why other cameras (such as the 1DC) are more expensive than others. It depends if it's right for you. (content & client base). 

[Andrew Reid]

The Nx1 has higher resolution stills (although 1.5x crop), 15fps burst, 120fps, incredible 4k (which I doubt would be much worst, considering its downsampled from 6.5k), incredible dif. in file size, Super Amoled screen, EVF, and costs what ?! 4 times less ?! The 1Dc is a great camera, but just like others, I dont think it justifies for the price, FS7 would be a wiser choice.

1D C stills are full frame though. 18MP is enough. 14fps burst. I've seen the 1D C go for as low as £3500 used. It is a stills camera with 4K video like the others, the FS7 isn't. That is a completely different class of camera. The FS7 by comparison takes ages to boot up and the menus are a way slower. Depends on your needs as always but I prefer the tiny 1D C by comparison, ergonomically. It is also lighter. You get most of the FS7's advantages like peaking, loupe over screen, zebra, etc. simply by adding a SmallHD 501, which is also a tiny combo by comparison to a rigged up FS7. Also... 1.3x crop vs 1.5x makes a difference. 1D C looks closer to full frame. And the stills are another reason to consider it, these being the best you can get (1D X level).

[Mattias Burling]

 Now you're just being silly. Whatever...

Honestly no.

If you seriously think an Alexa is a better option than a Gopro for mounting on the edge of a snowboard,  that's silly.

If you think a Gopro is better than an NX1 as a cinematic hybridcamera, that's silly.  

If you think an NX1 is better than the A7s for run N gun in extreme lowlight that's silly.

If you think the A7s is better than the Alexa for shooting a 10 million dollar feature drama, that's silly.

It all depends on who you ask. And that is not an opinion, that's stone cold facts. 

[Jimmy]

 

The small amount of stuff I've shot on the RED Epic has 20x better image quality than my DSLR stuff, about 10x better than my FS700/FS7 stuff. (That said, the content I shot on the Epic pales in comparison to the others!). 

Sorry, should have clarified more.

Top tier... The image quality of the Alexa is judged higher than RED Dragon by alot of folk, even though the latter has far better paper specs and is alot cheaper.

I was not putting the 1DC in that tier though.

[ricardo_sousa11]

1D C stills are full frame though. 18MP is enough. 14fps burst. I've seen the 1D C go for as low as £3500 used. It is a stills camera with 4K video like the others, the FS7 isn't. That is a completely different class of camera. The FS7 by comparison takes ages to boot up and the menus are a way slower. Depends on your needs as always but I prefer the tiny 1D C by comparison, ergonomically. It is also lighter. You get most of the FS7's advantages like peaking, loupe over screen, zebra, etc. simply by adding a SmallHD 501, which is also a tiny combo by comparison to a rigged up FS7. Also... 1.3x crop vs 1.5x makes a difference. 1D C looks closer to full frame. And the stills are another reason to consider it, these being the best you can get (1D X level).

Still for the low 3500£ you can get an Nikon D800+NX1/GH4/a7s or any other sort of combination, which in the real world would make much more sense, at least thats what i'd think. Every Canon cinema camera is, in my opinion, overpriced and simply outdated, they are great tools and deliver great results, but still overpriced.

[DBounce]

Comparing "used" to "new"? This makes no sense. Just keeping it real.

[Mattias Burling]

A used Ferrari still out runs a new Skoda.

[DBounce]

A used Ferrari still out runs a new Skoda.

 Until it breaks and you find out that a new tranny is $50k. And oil changes cost $900 a pop. No warranty... Gotta love it.

[Shield3]

To be fair - as has been pointed out - the 1Dc is $8k new, the A7s is $2.5k new. I could take almost any camera that's nearly 4x as expensive as the A7s and talk about how much better it is than the A7s. Even the FS7.

Regardless, it's crazy that you can get quality that rivals (or betters) an $8k camera in a $2.5k body. A lot of what you've said is subjective opinion. But anyway, I'll bite for a few of these: 

 

This is a personal preference. You like the EF mount, and the glass that comes with it so for you, you are more likely to choose a Canon over another camera. I could just as easily talk about how a Nikon is better because it has a native Nikon mount and there's a lot of Nikon glass available. Or I could say that because I prefer the Sony E mount glass, I prefer the Sony as I can use glass that is of equal or better quality to Canon L, but is smaller

 

But we all know Canon glass is far superior than Nikon or Sony.  Where's the 24-70 / 70-200 2.8 for the E-Mount?  Where's the 50/85 1.2?  135/2?  The fastest short lens they have is a 35/2.8 (which I owned) and it's ok.  No 24/35/50/85 1.4 or 1.2.  No good 2.8 ultra-wides.  Please do not compare Canon glass with what's available on the Sony FE mount.  I'd certainly say that's a plus.

You can't really say this a plus or negative for either camera. See my points mentioned above. In addition, the small FFD on the Sony means you can adapt pretty much any lens you want to to the camera, including PL glass.

You like your Canon glass - that's great. The fact that the Sony can even work with the Canon glass at all is great. This point is like me complaining that when I try and mount my Sony lenses via a third party adapter on a Canon EOS-M, it doesn't work very well, and every now and then I have to disconnect/reconnect. Surely the first thing you would say to me is 'if you want something that's going to work all the time, you're better off buying native glass. You can't buy a Canon and then complain when it doesn't work very well with Sony lenses.' The reverse is true as well.

 

 

And my A7s is compatible with all my Sony flashes/adapters/teleconverters without the need for adapters

The Sony flash system is horrific.  Overheating, lenses falling off mounts, the whole Minolta/standard hot shoe switch.  Even the most die-hard Sony fanbois hate Sony/Minolta flashes.

 

And I can use any of my Sony E mount lenses full wide open without fooling around and mounting in some random mode too  

How many FE mount lenses go to 1.4?  1.2?  Right, none.  One single fast lens - a 55 1.8.  That's all you have natively.

That's the body design of the 1D series. Is it better than the 5D as well because the 5D isn't designed in this way? It's strange to talk about the 'extra expense' of a grip, because an A7s + grip is still cheaper than even a second-hand 1Dc. In fact, a Sony A7s + grip + Canon adapter is cheaper than a second hand 1Dc.

With the A7s, I can take my grip off as well. I have the choice of shooting with the grip/portrait mode, or small, lightweight mode.

If might be cheaper for those 3 than a used 1dc, but you're not shooting 4k video with that setup.  Now add in your 2k Atomos device.

$2500 A7s (new) - ok $1700 used since Sony prices drop like stones.

$1700 + $400 Metabones + $299 grip + $2k Atomos = what I paid for a used 1dc with 2 OEM Canon batteries.  I'll be fair and call the storage for the Atomos and the CF card prices a "wash".

 

And I like my EVF with zebras, peaking etc. for shooting video. Horses for courses.

 

 

I'll take your word for this one - but I find it unlikely that Sony have dramatically less service centres. 

LOL  You can't be serious here.  Go read about Sony service - you a7s breaks and you won't see it again for quite a long time.  The 1dc breaks and they'll send me a replacement.

 

But the Sony beats it in low light performance

This is true.  It should at a paltry 12 megapixel.  It's not like the 1dc is bad in low light; far from it.

I'm glad you like both cameras, but c'mon pretty much every single one of these is a personal preference thing.

4k internally, 12FPS, better colors, unlimited recording time, 3 different crop modes are pretty much all either pure fact or widely regarded as superior with the 1dc.

 

 

[BrorSvensson]

1D C stills are full frame though. 18MP is enough. 14fps burst. I've seen the 1D C go for as low as £3500 used. It is a stills camera with 4K video like the others, the FS7 isn't. That is a completely different class of camera. The FS7 by comparison takes ages to boot up and the menus are a way slower. Depends on your needs as always but I prefer the tiny 1D C by comparison, ergonomically. It is also lighter. You get most of the FS7's advantages like peaking, loupe over screen, zebra, etc. simply by adding a SmallHD 501, which is also a tiny combo by comparison to a rigged up FS7. Also... 1.3x crop vs 1.5x makes a difference. 1D C looks closer to full frame. And the stills are another reason to consider it, these being the best you can get (1D X level).

if 1dc goes for 3500 these days how low has the 1dx went to? I really liked the image out of that camera

[Shield3]

Still for the low 3500£ you can get an Nikon D800+NX1/GH4/a7s or any other sort of combination, which in the real world would make much more sense, at least thats what i'd think. Every Canon cinema camera is, in my opinion, overpriced and simply outdated, they are great tools and deliver great results, but still overpriced.

How many different mounts do you want to actively support in this scenario?  How many adapters do you want to buy?  I'm saying as an "all in one" camera system (stills and 4k video) NOTHING beats the 1dc right now.  Nothing is that close.  Widest range of glass, a fully mature "system" with CPS support, and the best color system.  The 1dc will not shoot slow motion like the FS700, nor has quite the low light of the a7s, nor the EVF of many cameras, nor the built-in ND or XLR inputs.  But I submit it's the best "all arounder" on the market for both stills and video - and I shoot about 50/50 of each.  I am the target market for a used 1dc.  If I were a landscape shooter I'd be getting the new a7rII or a D800/800E.  But I shoot things that move, and quite often.  I don't do slow shutter waterfalls - I shoot my son playing travel baseball, his indoor basketball, and my daughter's indoor gymnastics.  Also weddings and talking head interviews, and occasionally my friends' music in bars.

I decided to sell my a7s when I got fed up with two things -the time it took to get the colors "right" (to me, personal preference) and having the Metabones EF adapter give me errors and STOP recordings mid-take.  Also had to carry a 1dIV with me to shoot stills.  Hell I sold my a7s + 6d + IDIV (and made money) buying the 1dc.  It replaced 3 cameras for me.  Is it perfect?  Of course not - I still have to mount an electronic EVF and fool around with variable ND filters.  Sound is always a challenge as well.  But to me and MY uses, it's the best all arounder.  If all you do is interviews any of these cameras will do the job.  If you're not a stills person they are fine too.  If you want a camera that can take stills that could be featured (and has been) on the cover of SI, you could do a lot worse than a 1dx/c.

Have a great afternoon folks - going to go shoot. 

Shawn

[j.f.r.]

 

Probably the worst analogy I've read on here for a long time.  Is it "convenient" to lug that hard-to-see $2k Atomos device (in broad daylight) around with the a7s to shoot 4k?  Methinks no.  Some of us want to shoot in 4k.  The 1dc was only available en masse beginning in early 2013 - it's not from 10 years ago.  Still easily trumps any of these other "new" cameras as far as image quality, colors, low light, native mount (lens choice) and easily as a sports shooter.  Sorry, but it's still the best "all arounder" that exists on the market.  Nothing beats it at both...yet.  Yes the 12k initial price was absurd, but you can find these used in the 4300-5300 USD price range.

#22 - Being a native EF mount, it has built in peripheral illumination correction and chromatic aberration correction for EF lenses.  Light fall off can be tricky to fix in post.  Can't get this with the a7s + any adapter + EF lenses.

#23 - 18 megapixel vs. 12.  Huge difference.

It's a perfect analogy and I agree who cares.......  Also the A7s has another crop mode or should I say Sony Zoom that gives you another crop similar to MFT. Can you use the 1DC EVF for video........

 

Sony uses mirrorless technology which will last longer (shutter count) and can adapt many more lenses via adapters than Canon.

The argument of your Monitor is ludicrous, any professional and I mean ANY professional project has at any given time 2-3 monitors hooked up to a camera, with the Atomos Shogun on the A7s you're able to record 4k now.

Also Sony Zeiss has 25mm F/2 , 35mm F/2 , etc. You also have amazing lenses like 50mm f/0.95.........

We can go on and on, people need to be shooting instead of making sense posts on forums. I would much rather appreciate to view actual projects and productions shot on specific cameras and we discuss those advantages/minuses......

[Andrew Reid]

Probably the worst analogy I've read on here for a long time.  Is it "convenient" to lug that hard-to-see $2k Atomos device (in broad daylight) around with the a7s to shoot 4k?  Methinks no.  Some of us want to shoot in 4k.

Ha. This was the number 1 trigger which made me think "sod this", get a 1D C. The A7S being such a TINY camera, to bolt on a massive recorder which an invisible screen in direct light was just horrible. The 1D C is small but it also self contained and 'just works' unlike 5D3 raw or recorders that exhaust huge bulky batteries in 30 mins. I like simplicity!!

[Shield3]

Ha. This was the number 1 trigger which made me think "sod this", get a 1D C. The A7S being such a TINY camera, to bolt on a massive recorder which an invisible screen in direct light was just horrible. The 1D C is small but it also self contained and 'just works' unlike 5D3 raw or recorders that exhaust huge bulky batteries in 30 mins. I like simplicity!!

I guess I'm not professional as I don't lug an external monitor around with me.  Yet I've shot things for the Sci-Fi channel (auditions) and the last wedding I shot video for I only used the rear LCD - those brides and grooms didn't run around much, so keeping focus was easy.

I will say I lugged the 1dc up a huge hill today along with a really heavy Benro tripod, the 16-28 Tokina, 150-600 Sigma and the 24-70 F/4 - I take back everything I said - I need a lighter rig!   Got some fantastic video footage and came down and shot some hummingbirds (stills).  All with (gasp) one camera body.  12FPS I had fantastic images to select from.

 

Attached is a 4k video screen grab (I didn't shoot C-log today due to the vastly changing light) and a hummingbird still shot (first time I ever tried to shoot those birds - man they're fast!)

The bird shot was @ ISO 25600.  Not too bad.  Not as good as the a7s of course at this ISO range, but still salvageable.

The video was F/8, 24-70 F/4 lens, 1/50 shutter.  Used the "neutral" setting with 0 sharp, -2 contrast / -2 saturation.  Pulled back a bit with Premiere CC 2015 and the Lumetri plugin.  I'm just trying to learn the 1dc and how to get the best out of it.

[Shield3]

Question for you Andrew - I am comparing video I shot  - first set (was ISO 400 / F8).  Sky is nice and blue.  2nd shot, ISO 100, F/4.  2 stops faster but 2 stops less ISO.  This one the sky is really blown out and can't be recovered much in post.

Now I know the default ISO for C-log is 400.  But I shot in neutral color profile all day today (and verified this).  Do you shoot non-log in ISO 400 too?

Thanks - I think I will start shooting this way from now on.