Increasing interest in compacts, something is strange

[Andrew Reid]

Interesting fact for you... Sony RX100 VII is now 6 years old.

https://www.digitalcameraworld.com/cameras/compact-cameras/the-sony-rx100-vii-is-now-more-than-five-years-old-but-is-sony-even-planning-to-upgrade-the-beloved-compact

I remember when Sony updated this popular model every year.

They were throwing everything at it... pop-up EVFs, stacked sensors, 960fps slow-motion.

Fuji had a high-end compact, the X10, X20 and X30... Very ripe for an update, we may see one this year in fact.

And the Canon G7X has seen a revival in popularity like the Fuji X100.

In fact the G7X Mark II now commands close to $1000 on eBay.

However something is strange...

Smartphone cameras have never been better... Especially in terms of sensor size and zoom capabilities. Although a lot of the options outside of the duopoly (Apple and Samsung) reserve their Ultra models with best cameras only for the Chinese market.

And the retro-CCD cameras are also doing well (check the Canon Powershot G10 prices!), so it can't really all be about the appeal of a larger 1" sensor, or fancy features like 960fps and RAW.

So right now the camera product planners at Canon, Fuji and Sony must be quite confused. Do they come out with a high-spec or affordable compact line, or not bother at all?

I think what is happening, is that:

A) Social media has reminded a very large audience that compact cameras are FUN

B) What you can get up to with one, the shoots - the simplicity - it all looks cool on social media which further draws people in

C) There's a lot of affordable compacts

D) The top premium compacts with exception of X100 series have not had updates for AGES so the previous models are still in demand

So if I were a Canon or Fuji manager...

I'd be tempted to make a right mess of things and do a 'FUN' camera.

When what actually people want is a very capable small camera with serious photography pedigree, that produces pure art with cutting edge specs.

It is time for Sony to revive the RX1 series with 60mp A7R V sensor, and do the best RX100 ever with retro style body like a smaller X100 VI.

It is time for Canon to bring the G7X up to date with latest stacked sensor tech.

And Fuji should make a smaller X100, plus one with a zoom lens but similar form factor.

And they will fly off the shelves.

But I bet they won't get it, or understand this new "accidental" market 🙂

[dreamplayhouse]

I had the G7x M2 (paid $350) early last year and it was a very good compact, even video was decent. Should have never sold it but my 'disease' of constantly buying and selling used gear has hit an all time high. I do have to say, I landed a pretty nice deal. Saw an X100T in excellent condition for $295.56 to be exact with 30 day return option - 'does not focus' was the seller's comment. Well why not, if it doesn't work I'll return it.. well behold.. I take the camera out half press to focus, bam! works! Really not sure what he was doing wrong... now.. do I keep it or sell it? ha 🙂

 

[newfoundmass]

I think a big part of it has to do with the simple fact that taking pictures or video with your phone just isn't very fun. It doesn't feel rewarding. I never really go back and look at the photos and videos I've taken on my phone. Often I forget I even took a picture!

There is something though about taking an actual camera, putting it up to your face, looking in the viewfinder, and clicking the shutter. It stimulates a part of the my brain, and the images are much more present in my head than anything I've ever taken with my phone. And then, at the end of the day, I go over all the photos I've taken, often with a couple of pictures in mind that I'm excited to see, and it just is such a rewarding experience. It's the closest thing to the excitement you'd get when you'd open up a freshly developed set of film and seeing how things had come out.

 

It just feels so much more meaningful. I think that's a big part of what might be fueling a compact revival, and really might be what ultimately saves the camera industry. You just can't replicate the picture and video taking experience that you get using an actual camera.

[MrSMW]

Different strokes for different folks as they say…

Despite being a full-time pro photographer (not so much at this time of year though) or perhaps despite being, I prefer my phone.

I like the idea of a compact but the simple reality is that old adage of the best camera you have is the one you carry with you. And 2 devices at all times is 1 too many for me.

If I was going on a serious trip, I’d take some serious kit. Not the entire kit, but enough to do the job without taking over from the purpose of the trip. Unless it was specifically a photography thing.

So send me out today with 1k burning a hole in my pocket for an every day compact and I’d come back with a phone.

But I will take your Sony A7RV sensor based compact for work purposes please Andrew!

[Tim Sewell]

Scans. My 15yr old just bought a twenty quid Sony 10MP CCD compact. He specifically wanted CCD and he uses the flash on nearly every pic - loves the look.

[eatstoomuchjam]

I still say that the RX100 V is one of the most fun cameras that I ever owned - and I still have mine somewhere, as well as a ZV-1.  Even though the 960 fps mode is potato-quality, the 240 fps mode wasn't bad.

And even for photos, 24 fps in raw for around 5 seconds is kind of crazy in a camera that size.  In theory, if one didn't need sound, one could do 5.5k raw video for very short clips using that mode.  I never did that, but on the occasions when I'd use it for something fast-moving, I remember that the rapid fire tick-tick-tick while I held down the little shutter button on the tiny camera would just make me smile.

Also, the built-in ND filter was so useful!  It was only about 3 stops which wasn't perfect (c'mon, Sony, give us a 5 stop!), but it meant that shooting s-log video was just possible on a sunny day, albeit stopped down (I'm not home right now to check the base iso, but I think it was 640?  That seems about right since I remember shooting at f/11 put highlights just in danger of blowing out).  It was also kind of nice for dragging the shutter for like a waterfall or similar.

[MrSMW]

1 hour ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

And even for photos, 24 fps in raw for around 5 seconds is kind of crazy in a camera that size.  In theory, if one didn't need sound, one could do 5.5k raw video for very short clips using that mode.

Which has now got me thinking again about doing this with one of my FF Lumix cameras which when shooting raw only, can do about 6 seconds I think at 30fps. 

[homestar_kevin]

There's also been a large demand for panasonic m43 rangefinder style bodies for a few years now.

Prices have come back down, but at points last year a used gx85 body was selling for around $800.

I've also seen the prices of the samsung nx mini go up pretty dramatically as well.

People want compact, fun cameras that aren't phones. It's pretty cool to see, but yeah it's also curious manufacturers haven't leaned into it more. Although panasonic does have the s9 now, but not too many native lenses to support it's minimal footprint

[Andrew Reid]

6 hours ago, Tim Sewell said:

Scans. My 15yr old just bought a twenty quid Sony 10MP CCD compact. He specifically wanted CCD and he uses the flash on nearly every pic - loves the look.

Yeah and although you can mimic the same look with a CCD camera app and the flash on your smartphone, Gen Z does not want to "fake" it, they want the authenticity aspect.

It's more fun that way, and I agree with em!

[Tim Sewell]

33 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

Yeah and although you can mimic the same look with a CCD camera app and the flash on your smartphone, Gen Z does not want to "fake" it, they want the authenticity aspect.

I mentioned that to him and he said he just doesn't like taking photos on his phone. Which is encouraging!

[Clark Nikolai]

40 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

Yeah and although you can mimic the same look with a CCD camera app and the flash on your smartphone, Gen Z does not want to "fake" it, they want the authenticity aspect.

It's more fun that way, and I agree with em!

Yep. While I'm glad I have a phone on me when a picture is needed to be taken but it's not a good experience. The advantages of a phone camera are: -You usually have it on you. (Best camera is the one you have with you. That old saying.) -You can email them to someone right from the camera (or post to social media or whatever.) without having to copy to your computer first. -The screen is big compared to a compact camera. -Stablization can be very good.

That's about it though. There are many problems with taking photos with a phone. (Except for some recent high end models) zooms aren't good. It's hard to see the controls in bright sun. The iOS camera app's text size for the settings (like time and flash) are super tiny (and hidden away) so hard to see when out in the sun. A real camera would have a larger button or dial for this that you can feel and see easily.

Part of the reason the stability appears to be so good is that the phone takes a bunch of images then combines them, helped by the gyroscopic data, to create a picture. It looks pretty good for an easy snap shot and is good enough for most things but it's not "real" in the sense that the shutter opened on a sensor/piece of film for a moment of time and captured that.

The desire for authenticity isn't new but tends to come from demographics that are surrounded by fakeness. 

[Marcio Kabke Pinheiro]

11 hours ago, Tim Sewell said:

Scans. My 15yr old just bought a twenty quid Sony 10MP CCD compact. He specifically wanted CCD and he uses the flash on nearly every pic - loves the look.

This. 

A 14 yr old daughter of a friend have a Iphone 15pro, but now carries everywhere a VERY crappy Olympus digicam, shoots everything with flash, and loves it. (now I've taught her on how to do long exposures)

For me, is a trend - when Instagram appeared, everyone used their integrated filters in every photo, because it was so different, and now nobody uses. Dunno how this trend will carry - if 3 or 4 of the biggest infuencers start saying "clean iPhone photos are now the trend", it could dissapear fast.

(probably is where the camera companies will put their money - reversing the trend could be cheaper than develop and sell new cameras)

[ntblowz]

My friend's daughter bought the kodak p&s and loving it for the retro feel lol.

[hoodlum]

54 minutes ago, Marcio Kabke Pinheiro said:

This. 

A 14 yr old daughter of a friend have a Iphone 15pro, but now carries everywhere a VERY crappy Olympus digicam, shoots everything with flash, and loves it. (now I've taught her on how to do long exposures)

For me, is a trend - when Instagram appeared, everyone used their integrated filters in every photo, because it was so different, and now nobody uses. Dunno how this trend will carry - if 3 or 4 of the biggest infuencers start saying "clean iPhone photos are now the trend", it could dissapear fast.

(probably is where the camera companies will put their money - reversing the trend could be cheaper than develop and sell new cameras)

My daughter in university requested a compact camera last Christmas.  She specifically mentioned the Canon Powershot Elph 180 due to looks and also since her friend uses the same camera so they could share settings.  She liked the photos her friend took from that camera over her iphone.  I believe smartphone camera have gone too far with HDR and along with sometimes getting the colour wrong.  Camera companies just get the colours right for the most part. 

She also specifically mentioned the flash.  I think the flash is the number #1 feature that is currently too limiting with smartphones and that is a big part of what is driving the compact camera trend.  While some may be going for the retro look, that is not the main factor.  I suspect camera companies still don't understand this and are not filling this large niche.  I am not seeing many new compact cameras with a built-in flash.

[fuzzynormal]

Oly fans have been begging OM for an update of the PenF.  Ain't gonna get it.  Such is Japan management.

[MrSMW]

I read the above as ‘only fans’ and couldn’t work out the connection.

Then I reread it.

What is it with teenage girls and compact cameras? My daughter, also at uni (though she is 20 and not a teenager anymore) was asking just the other day about a Canon Powershot SX2 and it turned out due to some social media hype.

She has no interest in cameras or photography but their is some kind of hype thing going on it seems and as has been mentioned, as with IG filters, it will probably be a fad that will soon pass.

[ND64]

Its funny smartphone brands trying so hard to fake the "DSLR bokeh" but Gen Z do the subject separation by flash light. They don't care about the brand's solutions, they find their own. 

I think physical controls is part of the appeal. Here is what my smartphone live view looks like when I want to change the most basic settings. Almost 80% of the screen is occupied by the UI elements:

Now imagine I want to change the ISO. Not only a considerable area of the 17:9 screen is wasted due to 4:3 size of the LV, but almost the third of LV area is crowded with numbers:

Compare that to G7x. Its a small LCD, but at least most of the area is junk free. And it was Canon that was the most aggressive brand in icon inventions:

And then look at here, you can zoom in/out with your left hand when you're taking selfie or filming yourself. This control looks amateurish for us but its huge ergonomics advantage for TikTok generation:

But no just TikTokers. Look how this cyclist holds the G7x. Some PoVs here are impossible to take with a huge 6.7 inch smartphone:

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C-AOlHAscs8/

BTW, Canon marketing never managed to make an advertisement with 1.7m views that this guy did while not even trying. 

[MrSMW]

I would like a compact actually and either an updated version of Sony's R1XR or something like a 60mp Lumix S9.

With the latter, I think they might need to beef up the build a little and maybe swap out the SD card for CF and for a lens...oh, Lumix don't do any compact fast lenses do they...

Fuji are supposed to be having their large sensor compact on it's way, but without IBIS so not so much interested.

[Andrew Reid]

[mercer]

It's good to know kids are learning that to take good photos, you need light...

Science is fun.

If society can figure out how history can help their social media creds, there just may be hope for the future.