Increasing interest in compacts, something is strange

[mercer]

1 hour ago, Andrew Reid said:

Who wants to tell her that if she had just turned around and faced the setting sun, she could have continued using her iPhone?

Not it.

[Snowfun]

11 minutes ago, mercer said:

It's good to know kids are learning that to take good photos, you need light...

Most kids might look at the photo on the left and think that there are a couple of things you need to take a good photo...

[fuzzynormal]

4 hours ago, ND64 said:

what my smartphone live view looks like when I want to change the most basic settings.

With 3rd party apps I can actually get some rather awesome IQ video outta my Xiaomi 12S Ultra.  That's kind of neat, right? 

What I can't get is an app that let's me film motion pictures without a lot of unnecessary difficulty and fiddly nonsense. 

Thus, I do not use my Xiaomi 12S Ultra to shoot rather awesome IQ video.

Imagine trying to use a hammer and the handle is a jug of milk.  Pretty freaking hard to strike a nail.  It can be done, but...annoying as hell.

[eatstoomuchjam]

5 hours ago, MrSMW said:

Fuji are supposed to be having their large sensor compact on it's way, but without IBIS so not so much interested.

For me, the biggest question for the Fuji compact is about the size.  If the body+lens are within 5% of the size of a GFX 100S II + 50/3.5, I'll roll my eyes and not care.

If, on the other hand, the size is closer to like a EOS R5 + the Canon consumer 24mm RF prime...  I suddenly start to become interested, with or without IBIS.

Double bonus will be if it includes the 4k full sensor video mode, 5.8k full sensor width 2.35:1 mode, and the cropped 8K mode...  or even better, if it has a 4K mode that can do something like Sony's clear image zoom where I can just zoom by changing the readout window on the sensor all the way down to 1:1 pixels.  Starting at 100 megapixels, that's a hell of a lot of zoom before reaching 4096x2160 (starting from a sensor that's 11648 x 8736) (I think that 4k 1:1 would be close to S35?  The 8K 1:1 mode on the 100 is pretty close to FF).

(I already use the 8K mode on the GFX 100 II to get a bit more telephoto in video mode - usually I prefer the 5.8k 2.35:1 mode for my stuff, but if I want a bit more reach than my lens has...)

[MrSMW]

I still say that my A7RV is my compact camera.

For its size and ergos with a small lens, OK it’s not exactly RX100V, but that thing was too small and fiddly for me.

I will still trade it and the 3 compactish zoom lenses I have as soon as any S2R appears, and pair it with Sigma’s 28-105mm f2.8…which will in no way be compact, but it will continue my ethos of a compact kit.

I think with any kit, it still comes down to how you use it, where & when you use and even if you will use it.

Right now, out of all the cameras I have ever had and are available, I would still nominate the A7RV with a small lens as the best compact camera I have ever had.

The A7CR should be my compact of choice, but nah, too many niggly things over the A7RV.

So whether it be a family occasion to a city break to a safari, for primarily photo, I’m going to stick with my A7RV.

Until any S2R appears and then it will be gone. Because I can’t keep them all.

[newfoundmass]

12 hours ago, mercer said:

Who wants to tell her that if she had just turned around and faced the setting sun, she could have continued using her iPhone?

Not it.

I don't think it'd have given her the look she was going for, or feature the water in the background.

[hoodlum]

It looks like we may finally get a compact camera with wide angle to normal zoom, 8 years after the Nikon DL cameras were cancelled.  Except it is Canon doing it with the V1.  This is exciting news for me and it could be an automatic buy depending on the implementation. 
 

https://www.canonrumors.com/the-powershot-v-series-will-become-canons-new-line-of-compact-cameras/

• 24MP CMOS Sensor (approx)

• Approximently 16-50mm (35mm Equivalent)

• 3″ Screen (Approx 1 million pixels)

• Screen has a 170° viewing angle

• 4K Video (Very slight crop, but likely for aspect ratio)

• 1.4X Crop Mode for Stills

• RAW, C-RAW, Dual Pixel RAW

• H.265 / HEVC

• C-Log3 / HDR PQ

• Launch: Late Q1/Early Q2 2025

 

 

[TrueIndigo]

Since there was a C-mount adapter for the Nikon 1 mount, in 2015 I was thinking of getting a Nikon 1J5 - for the fun of using my old C-mount lenses on a small camera with a 1-inch sensor (even more fun, the UHD video mode was at 15 fps!). I never did get one in the end, though, and got caught up in the Magic Lantern RAW video craze at that time instead.

[ntblowz]

22 hours ago, hoodlum said:

It looks like we may finally get a compact camera with wide angle to normal zoom, 8 years after the Nikon DL cameras were cancelled.  Except it is Canon doing it with the V1.  This is exciting news for me and it could be an automatic buy depending on the implementation. 
 

https://www.canonrumors.com/the-powershot-v-series-will-become-canons-new-line-of-compact-cameras/

• 24MP CMOS Sensor (approx)

• Approximently 16-50mm (35mm Equivalent)

• 3″ Screen (Approx 1 million pixels)

• Screen has a 170° viewing angle

• 4K Video (Very slight crop, but likely for aspect ratio)

• 1.4X Crop Mode for Stills

• RAW, C-RAW, Dual Pixel RAW

• H.265 / HEVC

• C-Log3 / HDR PQ

• Launch: Late Q1/Early Q2 2025

 

 

Hopefully it have 3.5mm audio plug that G1Xiii was really missing it

[MrSMW]

23 hours ago, hoodlum said:

It looks like we may finally get a compact camera with wide angle to normal zoom

Indeed.

My interest in a lot of these compacts evaporated when instead of faster, wide to moderate focal lengths, they went all superzoom.

I honestly don't give a shit about zooming out to 400mm at f16 FF equivalent as it's totally unrelatable for my needs.

I had the RX100V and they then went all long zoom.

I had the RX100II prior to that and they did the same thing with subsequent models.

Killed it for me.

Give me a bigger sensor every single day, but one that allows for reduced file sizes and have crop zoom features etc.

60mp or even 100mp with these features is where it's at for me.

Leica Q3 is fantastic in this regard, but obviously the price is stupid as we all know it's approx double the price for the 'privilege' of that red dot, but something like that at 100mp would be a stunner, especially if the fixed focal length was switched out for something like a 28-50mm fast lens.

It would probably need to be an f2.8 because Sigma have shown what they can do with a 28-45mm f1.8 and whilst it's not insanely massive, it's absolutely nothing you could nail to a body and call compact.

Sigma have also shown what they can do with their 18-50mm f2.8, but it's APSC crop.

Panny with their 18-40mm FF lens is very compact, but a bit too slow at f4.5-6.3 which might be OK as a casual walkabout day time lens, but anything more than that, is not for me.

Maybe a fixed focal length would have to be it right now and I'd choose a fast one of those with great crop potential over a slow(er) slow lens.

[MrSMW]

How compact does a compact need to be?

 

[MrSMW]

Sony RX100 series on the left, jeans pocket easily enough and a decent wide to medium zoom, ND and relatively fast aperture for a 1 inch sensor.

Lumix LX100ii will squeeze into non-tight trouser/pants pocket and has a bigger sensor.

Leica Q3 isn't much bigger but we're talking jacket pocket now and has a fixed lens, but with a 61mp FF sensor, a lot of cropping power.

As much cropping power as the same sensor Sony A7CR at less than 1/2 the price and with a constant aperture f2.8 zoom, albeit a bit bigger still.

Finally, the A7RV with the same lens as the A7CR but a much better camera in almost every regard and barely bigger, but costs more.

The latter 2 cameras are strap or small bag territory now though.

I think for a compact, the Lumix is actually where it's at for size, so something like that please with a FF sensor like maybe the 33mp one from the Sony A7iv? It would almost certainly need a different lens, but a shorter zoom such as a 28-45 f2.8 should be no bigger than 28mm f1.7 on the Leica?

[MrSMW]

While I am at it, here is the Lumix LX100ii vs the Lumix S9 with the new 18-40mm lens.

The FF camera is not that much bigger but IMO needs the Smallrig grip but the lens size is perfect, albeit a bit slow for indoor use...

 

[ac6000cw]

1 hour ago, MrSMW said:

Sony RX100 series on the left, jeans pocket easily enough and a decent wide to medium zoom, ND and relatively fast aperture for a 1 inch sensor.

Lumix LX100ii will squeeze into non-tight trouser/pants pocket and has a bigger sensor.

Leica Q3 isn't much bigger but we're talking jacket pocket now and has a fixed lens, but with a 61mp FF sensor, a lot of cropping power.

As much cropping power as the same sensor Sony A7CR at less than 1/2 the price and with a constant aperture f2.8 zoom, albeit a bit bigger still.

Finally, the A7RV with the same lens as the A7CR but a much better camera in almost every regard and barely bigger, but costs more.

The latter 2 cameras are strap or small bag territory now though.

I think for a compact, the Lumix is actually where it's at for size, so something like that please with a FF sensor like maybe the 33mp one from the Sony A7iv? It would almost certainly need a different lens, but a shorter zoom such as a 28-45 f2.8 should be no bigger than 28mm f1.7 on the Leica?

As an alternative to an RX100 V, the ZV-1 is about the same size and weight - you loose the pop-up EVF, but gain an articulated LCD, a mic jack and a small grip on the front. It's also significantly cheaper than the RX100.

The LX100 is quite noticeably larger than the RX100/ZV-1 (I used to own one), and is more jacket than trouser/pants pocket sized.

1 hour ago, MrSMW said:

While I am at it, here is the Lumix LX100ii vs the Lumix S9 with the new 18-40mm lens.

The FF camera is not that much bigger but IMO needs the Smallrig grip but the lens size is perfect, albeit a bit slow for indoor use...

The S9 feels much chunkier and heavier - even more so with the Smallrig grip attached - than the LX100 (based on playing with an S9 with/without grip in a camera store).

[MrSMW]

I forgot about the ZV1 and used to own one of those also!

Yes, the S9 is a bit chunkier than the LX100, but I quite like that.

The pair of them are about the ball park for a ‘compact’ for me with the RX/ZV being a bit small personally. Not that I have big hands or anything but there is small and too small and I like a bit of chunk!

[eatstoomuchjam]

11 hours ago, MrSMW said:

As much cropping power as the same sensor Sony A7CR at less than 1/2 the price and with a constant aperture f2.8 zoom, albeit a bit bigger still.

At that point, though, why put the f/2.8 zoom on the A7CR and not... forgive me if I'm forgetting my Sony lenses a bit here, but the 35mm f/2.8 or the 55mm f/1.8?  I remember that when I shot Sony, I had both and they were technically excellent (and overly clinical to match).  At the time it came out, the 55/1.8 was, I think, considered the technically best 50-ish millimeter autofocus lens ever made.  It'd bring the A7CR a lot closer in size to the Leica.  And with the 35, it's even smaller than the Leica.

I remember there was also a 28mm f/2.0 and a 24mm f/2.8 which were also pretty small/tiny, but I can't remember if I ever had/used them.

Anyway, as long as the Sony has 61 megapixels, using a relatively wide lens like a 24, 28, or 35 gives plenty of resolution to crop in post (or maybe the camera supports crop modes for still images internally?).  And for video, lots of clear image zoom with minimal/no loss of quality.

With the S9, the zoom seems more important since 24 megapixels gives a lot less flexibility for zooming in post or using internal cropping modes.

That's the Leica Q3 with a more fair comparison between the A7CR and 35/2.8 ZA and 24/2.8 G.

At about $2500 for a used A7CR and $350ish for the 35/2 and $450-500ish for the 24mm, the Sony would be a pretty compelling option vs the $5500-6000ish used Leica.

Though Sony shooters won't get as many groupies as Leica shooters so you'll have that working against you.

[ac6000cw]

19 hours ago, MrSMW said:

I forgot about the ZV1 and used to own one of those also!

Yes, the S9 is a bit chunkier than the LX100, but I quite like that.

The pair of them are about the ball park for a ‘compact’ for me with the RX/ZV being a bit small personally. Not that I have big hands or anything but there is small and too small and I like a bit of chunk!

I agree the RX100/ZV-1 are pretty small (literally 'fit in the palm of your hand' cameras), but I think the ZV-1 combination of very small size, zoom lens, decent on-board sound (with an included wind muff!), mic jack, hot shoe and decent video/stills capability is hard to beat without going up significantly in camera size/weight/cost. The ZV-E10ii and X-M5 with their respective power-zoom kit lenses are probably the obvious 'upgrade' candidates.

[IronFilm]

On 1/28/2025 at 1:55 PM, Andrew Reid said:

They were throwing everything at it... pop-up EVFs, stacked sensors, 960fps slow-motion.

Fuji had a high-end compact, the X10, X20 and X30... Very ripe for an update, we may see one this year in fact.

And the Canon G7X has seen a revival in popularity like the Fuji X100.

In fact the G7X Mark II now commands close to $1000 on eBay.

There was the Fujifilm X70 too, a wide angle version of the X100. 

Remember also the Nikon Coolpix A? Almost got one when it was discontinued and on sale, but too expensive! Remember too the announced Nikon DL series? (DL24-85, DL18-50 and DL24-500) Would have loved a Nikon DL18-50 😞

How about Panasonic's premium compacts, such as the LX100?

Back in the day there was a huge demand for P&S cameras, thus if only a small percentage of those people would splurge out on a premium P&S camera model, it was enough demand to keep on updating them regularly. 

But today? General demand for P&S cameras has totally collapsed to nearly zero. You can't justify making new premium models based on capturing the upper end of that broader general P&S market which no longer exists. 

Thus you are only catering to specialist niches, such as rich hobbyist photographers who specifically want a pocketable high quality camera. 

However.... just lately in very recent months/years we've seen some social media influcencers (outside the normal world of photography enthusiasts) hype up demand for: 1) the latest Fujifilm X100 specifically 2) retro "vintage" look of old school point and shoot cameras from a couple of decades ago (ouch, this makes me feel so old....). Those are kinda two different trends that were happening for P&S cameras at the same time. 

It's tricky to cater to the second category, it's like if you brought out "vintage" brand new clothing. Maybe some pop up boutique clothing brands can pull that off, but tough for a big mainstream brand to do it effectively. I can't see the likes of Panasonic/Sony/Canon/etc effectively pulling that off, but they might try.

The closest comparison I can think of today is something like the Kodak PIXPRO FZ series of cameras which is somewhat price comparable to secondhand P&S pricing and gives you that retro "vintage" 2000's vibes as a fashion accessory. 

But those are certainly not what this thread is about! They've bad quality. 

This thread is about the first category, how the latest Fujifilm X100 became super crazy hyper popular (with knock on effects then on every single other model in the X100 series, and even other Fujifilm cameras, and even other premium P&S cameras such as the Sony RX100 series / Ricoh GR series /  Canon G7X / Nikon Coolpix A / etc becoming overpriced on eBay).

The very tricky thing though is if you rewind just a couple of year, especially if you go back to pre-pandemic era (or even just the early part of the pandemic era) then you could easily find the latest X100 series in stock (and you'd never see them selling for over RRP! Unlike what we've seen sometimes), and secondhand X100 series would have a reasonable and sensible discount to them (never selling over RRP!! That's crazy talk). 

However the fashionable winds of social media influencers can be a fickle thing. What if they ramped up production of the X100V only to see demand immediately collapse back down to lower levels than before? They've be screwed! Likewise what if they had 10x more X100VI ready to sell only to find out it flops vs the X100V and they couldn't catch that magic "spark" in the bottle again? They'd have tonnes of X100VI on the shelves unable to move! (maybe there is only hype and demand because they're out of stock? What if as soon as they're in stock everywhere, then the hype dies away just as quickly?) They'd have to slash deep prices to get rid of it. 

And if even Fujfilm is looking at all these risks factors and trying to figure out what is right for the  market, imagine how much harder it would be for any other player to jump into the premium P&S market with a brand new camera. 

Panasonic tried to appeal to this market with the S9 (as fair enough, with a pancake lens it's not too different to a X100VI or a Sony RX1), but look at the pure hate they got for their attempt!

Fujfilm's new X-M5 feels like to me a camera that's attempting at cross over appeal to both X100 fans and X Mount users. 

[MrSMW]

1 hour ago, IronFilm said:

Panasonic tried to appeal to this market with the S9 (as fair enough, with a pancake lens it's not too different to a X100VI or a Sony RX1), but look at the pure hate they got for their attempt!

Except they went more for the ‘content creator’ market than the photography one where the X100 is aimed.

As photo cameras, take away the mech leaf shutter, the viewfinder, the internal ND, the hotshoe… and send it out into battle with an f8 lens, people are going to point and laugh. And they did.

I still bought one. Sold it. Recently rebought, but would I consider or use it as an alternative to an X100? Nah. For me although it can be used as a stills camera, it’s exactly what it’s meant to be, - a compact filmmakers or content creators tool.

[IronFilm]

16 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

Except they went more for the ‘content creator’ market than the photography one where the X100 is aimed.

Likely because they felt trying to appeal exclusively only to the fashionable photography hype was a risky bet to put all their eggs into that basket. Thus they made a camera with the S9 they hoped to appeal to that market and to content creators (who arguably are an even bigger and more enduring market niche) 

18 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

As photo cameras, take away the mech leaf shutter, the viewfinder, the internal ND, the hotshoe… and send it out into battle with an f8 lens, people are going to point and laugh. And they did.

To be fair, probably 90% of the hype buyers of the X100 series don't care too much about a viewfinder (they're from the smartphone generation!) or hotshoe, don't know what NDs are or what the hell a mechanical leaf shutter is either! 

And it's easy to see how the marketing minds thought a pocketable pancake lens might be a smash hit, and never predicted this amount of backlast. (with hindsight, they should have released the lens either a month earlier or a month later)